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jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 5:47 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Well, there has to be some reason that you have convinced yourself of the moral superiority of trad climbing. I mean, you don't actually believe it, do you?

In reply to:
Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing.

Is that supposed to be a coherent statement?

In reply to:
Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

You don't think that you sound like a jackass by putting down sport climbing, and pretending that trad climbing is morally superior. And by accusing me, without a shred of evidence, of having "quit" trad climbing because I don't have the stomach for it anymore. And for making ageist insults. Sorry, but do you really think I am the one making the public fool of himself?

Jay


Partner oldsalt


Sep 16, 2009, 5:50 PM
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Re: [jt512] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

I was doing a climbing traverse up and right and placed a nut that was held in place by the rope pulling down and left. Then I continued further up and right. It is possible that the nut shimmied out before I broke traction.

Mea culpa! I have the opportunity to do it correctly next time.


code08


Sep 16, 2009, 6:16 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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My thoughts are always
"How can I make this hurt the least"
and yes it does hurt when you deck


Bag11s


Sep 16, 2009, 6:46 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.


olderic


Sep 16, 2009, 6:52 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

Hmm.Unsure I didn't expect your response to be so bland. I'm a tad bit disappointed. I'll just have to awe at the good use of the semicolon instead of a more humorous JT512 post.

Maybe his random profanity generator (apparently the basis for many of his "witty and insightful" retorts) is on the fritz - it seems to keep inserting "morally superior" in nonsensical places.


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 7:08 PM
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Re: [Bag11s] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 16, 2009, 7:10 PM)


blkela


Sep 16, 2009, 7:23 PM
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Re: [jt512] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.


(This post was edited by blkela on Sep 16, 2009, 7:27 PM)


petsfed


Sep 16, 2009, 7:29 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you


(This post was edited by petsfed on Sep 16, 2009, 7:30 PM)


Oddball


Sep 16, 2009, 7:35 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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My thought's:

Thank God i'm wearing my Brown pantsUnsure


notapplicable


Sep 16, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Re: [blkela] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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blkela wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.

Truly the purest expression of this sport.

As long as your not using chalk that is. Which would be like playing pocket pool during absolution. SPIRITUAL CRIMES!


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 11:46 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

This thread earlier:
In reply to:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting. -Jay
In reply to:
Is that why you turned to bolts? I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear. You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard. -Ben

I didn't think this was all that inflammatory. Apparently, I was wrong since I received the elitist response of:
In reply to:
Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.
This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.
-Jay

Petsfed, I wouldn't have thought after reading that, that I'd be the one called an elitist twat. Although, you are entitled to your opinion.

For the record I boulder, sport climb, and trad climb. Although trad climbing has taken me to more adventurous and interesting climbing. Some of that climbing is hard, some of it is easy, but either can be interesting. If you think you have to crank hard in any type of climbing to make it interesting, I feel bad for you. Jay stated this, I thought it was incredibly elitist, I disagreed, and we started mudslinging.

I shouldn't have called Jay an idiot. I know with a certainty that Jay isn't and idiot, just a jerk and that is part of his charm. Smile


jt512


Sep 17, 2009, 2:36 AM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
In reply to:
No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

This thread earlier:
In reply to:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting. -Jay
In reply to:
Is that why you turned to bolts? I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear. You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard. -Ben

I didn't think this was all that inflammatory.

"Turned to bolts." "Shiny bolts." "Overprotecting everything." "Just to climb hard." Give me a fucking break. Each one of those phrases is elitist, insulting, and denigrating. If those aren't the elements of an inflammatory post, I don't know what is (and I do know what is!). By choosing such loaded phrases, you clearly show that you have no sincere interest in learning why an experienced trad climber would want to switch to sport climbing (even though many have, and haven't looked back for a second). N00bs like you forget that sport climbing grew out of trad climbing, just as "trad" climbing grew out of mountaineering. In both cases, elements of risk and inconvenience were stripped away to facilitate focus on a valued subset of skills.

Enough said. This is starting to become a more serious, thoughtful reply than your insolent posts deserve; but, who knows, perhaps you'll think about it anyway.

Maybe we'll see you out at New Jack this season. I'll be the "washed up old-timer" working the 13a with the crux death clip at the fourth bolt because someone forgot that sport climbs are supposed to only have "3-foot runouts." You?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 17, 2009, 2:52 AM)


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 5:25 AM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
oldsalt wrote:
jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

Agree with Jay on what. That your question should have been, "What are your thoughts in a fall when you rip gear?"

In that case, I don't know. I have only ripped gear once. Was very early in my leading when I shouldn't have been falling. I made a big mistake trusting gear before I knew how to place it or determine risk. I learned a lot that day. I don't remember thinking anything other than "oh, shit!" during the fall, but I thought a lot in the weeks following when I couldn't climb do to a badly spraigned ankle.

Josh

Josh


altelis


Sep 17, 2009, 5:56 AM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
oldsalt wrote:
jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

Agree with Jay on what. That your question should have been, "What are your thoughts in a fall when you rip gear?"

In that case, I don't know. I have only ripped gear once. Was very early in my leading when I shouldn't have been falling. I made a big mistake trusting gear before I knew how to place it or determine risk. I learned a lot that day. I don't remember thinking anything other than "oh, shit!" during the fall, but I thought a lot in the weeks following when I couldn't climb do to a badly spraigned ankle.

Josh

Josh

Josh, I would suggest you are STILL too inexperienced to be trad leading.................











































Clearly if you can't control your cheese-titting how can you even DREAM of trad leading? Tongue


Gmburns2000


Sep 17, 2009, 6:06 AM
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suprasoup wrote:
Last pitch of Second Coming on Muralla I'm presented with the usual four options. Which version do I wanna do today? Neither, lets just skip the cracks and climb the vertical face instead. The horizontal cracks dispersed along the length of the face were few and very far between but I knew that they were deep enough for solid tricam placements.
So off I go, chugging along placing equalized tricams in each horizontal I reach. Pretty sweet. I place my last equalized pieces (red and pinkie as usual) in preparation for the 40ish feet that can't be protected. I cruise the section and about 5ish feet from the bolted anchors I look up and a chipmunk plops on my face.Unsure Like any right minded idiot I grab it. With both hands. Frown
So here's the sequence of thoughts:
Seriously? There's a chipmunk on my face. Why does this shit always happen to me. Oh shit, I just grabbed it with both hands. Oh shit, I'm run out like crazy. And the last thought, OHHH SHITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Here's a pic of the "horizontals" basically just seams where the grass and pines were growing out of.Laugh
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/94/93/106489493_large_cccec2.jpg[/image]
How massive that vertical head wall is.
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/29/66/106512966_large_5f3334.jpg?1249921186[/image]

So Alvin the Chipmunk and I go for a "ride" the tricams hold and I'm caught 10ish feet before slamming into the ledge at the start of the pitch but poor Alvin kept goingFrown Sorry buddy, I really tried to hang on.

Supra

Thanks for starting my morning off good. Also, I needed a new keyboard and monitor anyway. Laugh


Gmburns2000


Sep 17, 2009, 6:11 AM
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Re: [notapplicable] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
blkela wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.

Truly the purest expression of this sport.

As long as your not using chalk that is. Which would be like playing pocket pool during absolution. SPIRITUAL CRIMES!

Shoes. You forgot shoes. You're not supposed to wear shoes either. That's aid.


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:34 AM
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jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

There's the rub and the truth as well.

So what I do is make sport climbs that interest me and I CAN pull baszzAtt!

Cuz I got skilz. Construction skilz, not climbingt skilz haha.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:40 AM
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I love it all.

That is all.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:43 AM
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No wait, there's MORE.

(and its FREEEEEEEEEEEE!)

I've had pieces pull during some lead falls over the years. Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Pro pulls and that is a fact.

Lastly - free trad at high grades is an awesome achievement.

REachieving that, after breaking several bones and tearing out soft tissue attachments.... that's something else entirely.

Its that something else entirely.... that reveals the absolute ridiculous nature of climbing. We risk our lives over STUPID ideals that mean nothing to anyone outside this sport.

In other words, we are willing (and do) risk our lives FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S RULES.

Rules for a sport that means NOTHING.

Put that in your grigris and smoke it. You risk your lives for NOTHING.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:46 AM
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And because we risk our lives for nothing we are foced to invent reasons where none exist.

Think about that now....

we risk our lives for some else's rules. Yall sure as hell didn't invent them!

DMT


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 6:54 AM
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Cheestitting? I always say my name twice, in case you forgot the first time. Tongue


sungam


Sep 17, 2009, 6:55 AM
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bennydh wrote:
You just end up sounding like a jackass.
I just read that whole little back and foreward, and you're the only one acting or sounding like a jackass here.
Feel free to STFU, GTFO, and find someone who cares - cuz to be honest this debate really isn't worth worrying about, and if it was the majority of rc.com still wouldn't give a shit about you're self righteous wannabe-elitist views.


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 6:56 AM
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dingus wrote:
I've had pieces pull during some lead falls over the years. Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

DMT

This is Korect!


shockabuku


Sep 17, 2009, 7:08 AM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

Have you heard the expression "the pot calling the kettle black"?


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Now now boys J can take care of himself. He doesn't need a pussy... POSSE! I meant POSSE of COURSE! He doesn't need a posse defending his precious honor.

DMT

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