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notapplicable
Nov 30, 2009, 3:19 AM
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CrazyPetie wrote: Breakneck to me has alot of solo appeal...because of the friction type moves
Your persisting with this notion in the face of what happened to your friend is baffling to me.
CrazyPetie wrote: with landings that will mess you up quite a bit but most likely not kill you.
If your more concerned about the landing than the nature of the climbing when contemplating a solo your on the wrong track my friend.
And please don't think I'm trying to talk shit about your or your buddy because I'm not. My point is that your approach to/attitude about soloing is pretty scary and I seriously think you should re-evaluate.
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altelis
Nov 30, 2009, 4:22 AM
Post #77 of 794
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notapplicable wrote: CrazyPetie wrote: Breakneck to me has alot of solo appeal...because of the friction type moves Your persisting with this notion in the face of what happened to your friend is baffling to me. CrazyPetie wrote: with landings that will mess you up quite a bit but most likely not kill you. And please don't think I'm trying to talk shit about your or your buddy because I'm not. My point is that your approach to/attitude about soloing is pretty scary and I seriously think you should re-evaluate.
the bolded above bears repeating:
if you're more concerned about the landing than the nature of the climbing when contemplating a solo you're on the wrong track.
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bandycoot
Nov 30, 2009, 4:26 AM
Post #78 of 794
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That guy was totally out of control. He slopped his feet and body position all over that route. From the very beginning he climbed with a complete lack of body tension or precision. As a result, his feet slipped. I hope he learned his lesson and won't have to stoke his ego with solos in front of a group of climbers anymore...
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trapdoor
Nov 30, 2009, 5:14 AM
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bandycoot hit the nail on the head. he climbed that thing like it was a wall at the carnival, totally haphazard.
He would have been dead as hell if he would have hit his head on that rock at the bottom instead of his arm.
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skiclimb
Nov 30, 2009, 5:22 AM
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bandycoot wrote: That guy was totally out of control. He slopped his feet and body position all over that route. From the very beginning he climbed with a complete lack of body tension or precision. As a result, his feet slipped. I hope he learned his lesson and won't have to stoke his ego with solos in front of a group of climbers anymore...
More precisely he started out loose and confident and less then precise. When he fell he was starting to get gripped and suck his body into the rock. which leads to loss of good foot contact and voila..
every climber has done it..damn bad thing to do without a rope
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Nov 30, 2009, 5:25 AM)
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notapplicable
Nov 30, 2009, 5:38 AM
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altelis wrote: notapplicable wrote: CrazyPetie wrote: Breakneck to me has alot of solo appeal...because of the friction type moves Your persisting with this notion in the face of what happened to your friend is baffling to me. CrazyPetie wrote: with landings that will mess you up quite a bit but most likely not kill you. And please don't think I'm trying to talk shit about your or your buddy because I'm not. My point is that your approach to/attitude about soloing is pretty scary and I seriously think you should re-evaluate. the bolded above bears repeating: if you're more concerned about the landing than the nature of the climbing when contemplating a solo you're on the wrong track.
Yeah if your contemplating a solo and you find yourself tossing "survivability of the landing" on the scale, it's time to just walk away.
IMO anyway.
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coastal_climber
Nov 30, 2009, 6:03 AM
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notapplicable wrote: altelis wrote: notapplicable wrote: CrazyPetie wrote: Breakneck to me has alot of solo appeal...because of the friction type moves Your persisting with this notion in the face of what happened to your friend is baffling to me. CrazyPetie wrote: with landings that will mess you up quite a bit but most likely not kill you. And please don't think I'm trying to talk shit about your or your buddy because I'm not. My point is that your approach to/attitude about soloing is pretty scary and I seriously think you should re-evaluate. the bolded above bears repeating: if you're more concerned about the landing than the nature of the climbing when contemplating a solo you're on the wrong track. Yeah if your contemplating a solo and you find yourself tossing "survivability of the landing" on the scale, it's time to just walk away. IMO anyway.
Correct.
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sungam
Nov 30, 2009, 10:32 AM
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notapplicable wrote: altelis wrote: notapplicable wrote: CrazyPetie wrote: Breakneck to me has alot of solo appeal...because of the friction type moves Your persisting with this notion in the face of what happened to your friend is baffling to me. CrazyPetie wrote: with landings that will mess you up quite a bit but most likely not kill you. And please don't think I'm trying to talk shit about your or your buddy because I'm not. My point is that your approach to/attitude about soloing is pretty scary and I seriously think you should re-evaluate. the bolded above bears repeating: if you're more concerned about the landing than the nature of the climbing when contemplating a solo you're on the wrong track. Yeah if your contemplating a solo and you find yourself tossing "survivability of the landing" on the scale, it's time to just walk away. IMO anyway.
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Myxomatosis
Nov 30, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Not to say that I am keen on solo'ing but I have done some pretty high ball problems at Castle Hill... Also some short easy solo's (cracks)
Before I go doing anything remotely stupid... I check if I'm prepared to live with what happens if you fall.
Clearly this guy did not consider the out come and let his ego of the tick control him.
Before you reach the point of no return, you really have to sum up why you are there and if you want to go on, their is no harm in backing down... If you decide to go on from that point on, there is no falling.
As for his climbing.... I argee with "Sock wearing gumbie".. his foot work was so bad. Anyone climbing like that wouldn't make it up any 5.12's Ive climbed.
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 1:11 PM
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CrazyPetie wrote: sungam wrote: rhythm164 wrote: what an asshole I don't get this - why is he an asshole? I understand the comments concerning foolishnesss and stupidity, but saying he's an asshole doesn't make sense. It seems to me it was the classic sitting around with friends talking and climbing and suddenly, for a number of reasons, soloing the route seems like a good idea, so he hops on. he didn't pull the rope probably because people were going to do the route after him, but maybe he also wanted to be able to grab it if he got sketched. Either way, I'm glad he was okay both for his sake and the sake of the beginners present. Seeing something like that turn out badly can fuck with you for years... Pete, mind clearing up why the rope was there and how he decided to solo it? Was it because of the cameras (who hasn't ever fallen prey to being a little extra showey to the lens?) or just because he wanted to or whatever? did he decide to keep the rope there or did he just not bother to pull it? Thank you magnus.. My friends asked me to borrow my cameras for a day, Mike said he was going to try this 5.12 project of his until he did it. Then i guess he was just feeling good, he lead the 5.9 climb to set-up the rope for the other beginners there for the um-teenth time, and said, "hey i've never fallen on this climb, i might as well solo it!" The crux move on that climb is a little sandbagged, i've been on 10's that feel easier. And its a friction move, you have a shitty 2-finger pocket with your left hand, then you get your right foot way up on a really slopy bump and you have to stand up on it slowly, it feel like its going to pop off. I think there deffinately was too much of his Ego in play, he says he was just feeling a little too confident and didn't respect the climb as much as he should. Mike and I dont have cameras or spectators 99% of the time we're scrabling or soloing or doing something "stupid". This was a rare ocasion that i think taught him a valuable lesson without too much penalty. When they first showed me the raw video i didn't even know he fell, no one told me he even soloed that day. So i'm watching it, and i start bitching like, "Man why didn't you take down the rope and take your harness off and stuff, i dont even want to show this to anyone now." They just said keep watching. Then i was like, "Oh Shit!" I tried to keep the surprize factor in the name of the clip, i didn't want to give it away.
Dude watch how your buddy puts his feet on the holds, lower down on the route.
Or listen, if you prefer.
That footwork says most of what was left unsaid by the fall.
The rope left hanging was his binkie. He was NOT free soloing btw. He had an out.
DMT
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 1:12 PM
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CrazyPetie wrote: zakadamsgt wrote: agreed - watch his footwork....he is stomping all over the holds gUmBy He climbs harder then you buddy.. Just saying.
His new nick name...
Crash
or Flapper
can't decide which
DMT
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 1:14 PM
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crazy_fingers84 wrote: i am baffled by that guys arrogance. his injuries could have... should have been worse.
Baffled? He's late teens early 20s and even still does not know what mortality means, nor the pain of broken back.
Give him time... this dude will learn those lessons.
I did.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Nov 30, 2009, 1:19 PM)
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dynosore
Nov 30, 2009, 1:42 PM
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Ever notice how people say the only true soloists are those that only solo for themselves, yet even those always get around to spraying about their solos eventually......
The only way to survive soloing is to not solo. I can't think of any climbers notorious for soloing that are alive, but there's a lot of ones that have passed. The whole notion is foolish. We are all human, and no matter how good you think you are, you'll mess up eventually. That's what ropes are for, the inevitable.
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 1:44 PM
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Werner Braun.
NEXT!
DMT
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dynosore
Nov 30, 2009, 1:46 PM
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dingus wrote: crazy_fingers84 wrote: i am baffled by that guys arrogance. his injuries could have... should have been worse. Baffled? He's late teens early 20s and even still does not know what mortality means, nor the pain of broken back. Give him time... this dude will learn those lessons. I did. DMT
Me too, and I'm reminded every morning. Funny being on the other side of the fence now. Not too long ago I was talking to a youngster about toning down the risk (not climbing related), and as he nodded his head in feigned cooperation I saw the same look on his face I had 15 years ago. Like Pink Floyd said "your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying".
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 1:47 PM
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Yup. Dude is a kid, not an asshole (necessarily).
DMT
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dynosore
Nov 30, 2009, 1:47 PM
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dingus wrote: Werner Braun. NEXT! DMT
Got me there dingus, never pays to speak in absolutes. But, in general, soloing not so good for your health in the long run, eh?
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yanqui
Nov 30, 2009, 1:56 PM
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dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: Werner Braun. NEXT! DMT Got me there dingus, never pays to speak in absolutes. But, in general, soloing not so good for your health in the long run, eh?
Puuulllleeeese ...
Not that I'm advocating anything here, but Peter Croft was one of the most accomplished trad climbers of the twentieth century, and cranked out some of the radest most badass solos I've ever seen. So let's not forget him ... huh?
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 2:03 PM
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yanqui wrote: dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: Werner Braun. NEXT! DMT Got me there dingus, never pays to speak in absolutes. But, in general, soloing not so good for your health in the long run, eh? Puuulllleeeese ... Not that I'm advocating anything here, but Peter Croft was one of the most accomplished trad climbers of the twentieth century, and cranked out some of the radest most badass solos I've ever seen. So let's not forget him ... huh?
Still is, and still does.
DMT
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 2:15 PM
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dynosore wrote: But, in general, soloing not so good for your health in the long run, eh?
I can't pass a yay or nay value judgment on it like that. Soloing is a big tent that includes a lot of nebulous and spur of the moment decision making, particularly in the mountain environment.
Most every climber I know solos some... its a sliding scale (pun to OP video incidental (and the incidental pun was NOT accidental, and the accidental pun wasn't either) from 3rd and 4th class into the 5th... and sometimes we find ourselves 'suddenly soloing.'
You know, folks point out 'why is his harness on' as if that had some meaning, or that it is improper for a soloist to wear one at all.
These folks aren't soloist material either is my guess.
DMT
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sungam
Nov 30, 2009, 2:17 PM
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Dave MacLeod?
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camhead
Nov 30, 2009, 2:21 PM
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dingus wrote: Most every climber I know solos some... its a sliding scale (pun to OP video incidental (and the incidental pun was NOT accidental, and the accidental pun wasn't either) from 3rd and 4th class into the 5th... and sometimes we find ourselves 'suddenly soloing.' DMT
this is correct. Every trad climber that I know sometimes comes into situations in which a fall would be harmful, and perhaps fatal. The frequency of these moments depends on the individual routes and areas, but it IS a risk that nearly all trad climbers take. Usually it is on moves that are well beneath our level, occasionally it is on harder moves that make us stop and think a bit more.
We will come off the climb, and say "I might as well have been soloing."
But yeah, like Dingus says, it is not absolute; there is a sliding scale of risk, of which free soloists occupy the more extreme fringes. But as climbers we all embrace the same danger to some degree.
edited to fix cheesetit
(This post was edited by camhead on Nov 30, 2009, 2:29 PM)
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yanqui
Nov 30, 2009, 2:26 PM
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dingus wrote: dynosore wrote: But, in general, soloing not so good for your health in the long run, eh? I can't pass a yay or nay value judgment on it like that. Soloing is a big tent that includes a lot of nebulous and spur of the moment decision making, particularly in the mountain environment. Most every climber I know solos some... its a sliding scale (pun to OP video incidental (and the incidental pun was NOT accidental, and the accidental pun wasn't either) from 3rd and 4th class into the 5th... and sometimes we find ourselves 'suddenly soloing.' You know, folks point out 'why is his harness on' as if that had some meaning, or that it is improper for a soloist to wear one at all. These folks aren't soloist material either is my guess. DMT
For sure ... if you do enough long routes, alpine routes, that kind of thing, at some point you will find yourself in a situation where you have to keep climbing even though falling is not an option. While this, strictly speaking may not be "soloing" it does mean being able to push through difficulties even though a fall could mean death for both you and your partner. Some people have the stomach for this kind of climbing and some people don't. But it's part of the game for the alpinist.
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dingus
Nov 30, 2009, 2:39 PM
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Well I'm not just talking about the situations we find ourselves in on lead.
I've soloed 5.8 'approaches' in approach shoes, for example.
Or down climbed 'its not that bad' 50' inside 5.8 corner system, in fading light.
Of 'let's just climb till one of us needs the rope' 3 pitches up a wilderness climb.
And the things we do on 3rd and 4th class terrain, merde!
There is something about showing off in front of a camera. And yet... just how DID we see those images of Honold or Croft or any of the other 'do it for yourself' soloists?
Hmmmm.
DMT
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