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dreday3000
Dec 30, 2009, 4:53 PM
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The January 2010 Rock and Ice has a feature article on Seneca Rocks.
Check it out:
http://www.rockandice.com/...=34&type=featart
The article makes the locals out to be a bunch of gumby climbers. While its true there are a lot of Seneca climbers out there that aren't exactly pushing it, I think there are plenty of hard climbers at Seneca.
I for one climb at Seneca and don't consider myself a gumby. How bout you guys? Anyone else a little peeved?
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zxcv
Dec 30, 2009, 8:38 PM
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What's a gumby? I always thought a "noobie" was a new and potentially dangerous leader, so is a gumby a safe but mid-level leader?
If so, I'm fine being a gumby.
The article suggests that the majority of "local" climbers from DC and Pittsburgh keep it below 5.10. Every time I have been down there, that appeared to be the case (as it is in the Gunks).
However, the author does come off as slightly patronizing in his assessment of Seneca climbers, but that does not mean his observation of the average lead-level of the areas visitors is inaccurate.
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wanderlustmd
Dec 30, 2009, 8:48 PM
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Well, to a certain degree it's true. I climbed at Seneca a ton over two years of living in the DC area and I never saw anyone on Madmen Only or Malevolence...or Ambush...or the entire cave area. The place does get a lot of traffic from more moderate climbers and, yes, a ton of gumbies. Nothing wrong with that.
However, the idea that no one climbs Castor, Pollux, Orangeaid, Nip and Tuck, etc. is wrong. I've seen plenty of people on those climbs. The whole, "we were being watched closely by locals because we were on 5.10s" bit was kind of lame. The article published back in '98 was better. But this article had some great history and did a pretty good overview of the crag.
I'd love to get a copy of that '98 back issue, though...
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marc801
Dec 30, 2009, 9:05 PM
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zxcv wrote: What's a gumby? I always thought a "noobie" was a new and potentially dangerous leader, so is a gumby a safe but mid-level leader?
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dreday3000
Dec 30, 2009, 9:08 PM
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First and foremost lets get one thing straight. The Cave is not exactly Seneca's finest asset. The Threat is a great route but everything else in there is sub par. Climbing in the Cave at Seneca is like going to Yosemite to boulder - a fun diversion, but not exactly the main event.
As for not seeing other people on the North West Face (home to Madmen and Malevolence etc) I've seen plenty of people there. The area is less crowded to be sure but its a small area and quite frankly Madmen and Malevolence are the easiest ticks on the cliff.
I think part of the issue is that Seneca climbers are a diverse group of people that come from many different cities who generally keep to themselves. Of the 10 or so climbers I know that reguralry go to Seneca I would say 7 of them are climbing 10s and up.
In my experience its pretty rare to hear Seneca climbers spraying about what they climbed and how hard they are. In contrast, areas like Salt Lake and Boulder have a high concentration of climbers congregating in one spot so its easier to spray about your latest tick. At Seneca people come, climb, and then go there separate ways.
Whatever its faults, I like Seneca the way it is. I Just posted cause I was curious to know if other people had the same experience as the author.
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dreday3000
Dec 30, 2009, 9:10 PM
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zxcv wrote: What's a gumby?
Gumby = Noob. Think it might be an Australian term.
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vinniemazz
Dec 30, 2009, 9:26 PM
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Amen to wanderlustmd's comments. One of my favorite things about climbing at Seneca is that people don't spray... you can get plenty of that in the New if you want it. Seneca is purely about climbing and socializing over pizza, beer, and a camp fire. The same guy climbing Crack of Dawn or Muscle Beach is high fiving someone for their first lead on Ecstacy and commenting on how classic Soler is. That is just the way it is... and thats what is beautiful about Seneca.
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camhead
Dec 30, 2009, 10:05 PM
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Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots.
I haven't looked at the article yet.
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wanderlustmd
Dec 30, 2009, 10:09 PM
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camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet.
Things can be a bit loose; several of the single pitch classics have a "rarely done second pitch" that someone ventures onto every once in a while....
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IsayAutumn
Dec 30, 2009, 10:14 PM
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camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet.
I heard it was because you were scared.
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camhead
Dec 30, 2009, 10:20 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet. I heard it was because you were scared.
Yes, fat traddies yarding on choss does scare the hell out of me.
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IsayAutumn
Dec 30, 2009, 10:22 PM
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camhead wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet. I heard it was because you were scared. Yes, fat traddies yarding on choss does scare the hell out of me.
Then please stay away.
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cclarke
Dec 31, 2009, 1:55 AM
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It's an article written by someone who hasn't spent much time at Seneca so it's hardly surprising that it's superficial and somewhat misleading. It's also Rock and Ice so what do you expect?
Edit:
It's not really a bad article but it's kind of silly to think anyone will notice or care if you climb 5.10-5.11 there. Nice to see Hunt and Ray get some play.
(This post was edited by cclarke on Dec 31, 2009, 2:37 AM)
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rock_ranger
Dec 31, 2009, 2:04 AM
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Anyone else think it was weird that they didn't mention Tom C. either?
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climboard
Dec 31, 2009, 2:50 AM
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I thought it was a decent article, but that part stood out to me as well. The idea that all the locals were staring at them in awe for climbing 5.10 sounds a bit overdramatic.
Madmen and Malevolence don't see much traffic since they are a bit isolated but I can't recall the last time I've spent a day at Seneca when people weren't climbing the classic 10s on the East face.
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lofstromc
Dec 31, 2009, 4:06 AM
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For your first time. Make sure you go on a weekday. The area can get over-run with too many people and then it may suck. Last time I was there I climbed Bring on the Nubiles. That is a nice climb.
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mheyman
Dec 31, 2009, 7:59 AM
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Whatever is said about the people there the horedes that are sometimes there aren't all locals,
More importantly the area isn't a place I consider dangerous place because of rockfall.
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villageidiot
Dec 31, 2009, 2:45 PM
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I suspect the the Explorers Clubs of Pittsburgh, and the various college groups such as the Pitt Outdoors Club and Penn State Outing club are largely responsible for creating a gumbyland atmosphere. Its sort of inevitable when the 5.9 leading "bad @sses" in your group are escorting large groups that only learned to belay last week. Unfortunaly, falling rock, falling gear, and parties taking all day to climb a 200ft 3 pitch route seem to be unavoidable. Debating whether people were staring at 5.10 climbers only exasperates the point in a world were nobody cares if one climbs 5.12.
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zealotnoob
Dec 31, 2009, 3:18 PM
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I had the same reaction, as did many from the PATC group. I wrote this on the author's blog.
"While I love the press on my and our favorite place, I take exception to the idea that none of the regulars do the 5.10s and harder. The author made it sound like we're all a bunch of bumbling noobs while it took a west coast climber to grace WV and experience the potential of Seneca. There are many of us who climb hard at Seneca."
Here's the link to the blog:
http://pullphotography.blogspot.com/...ca-rock-ice-183.html
(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Dec 31, 2009, 3:26 PM)
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olderic
Dec 31, 2009, 3:29 PM
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camhead wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet. I heard it was because you were scared. Yes, fat traddies yarding on choss does scare the hell out of me.
Absolutely. Definitely better for you to stay in grade inflated e-climbing land where you and yours can spray to your heart's content - you know - stick to what you are good at.
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camhead
Dec 31, 2009, 4:00 PM
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olderic wrote: camhead wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet. I heard it was because you were scared. Yes, fat traddies yarding on choss does scare the hell out of me. Absolutely. Definitely better for you to stay in grade inflated e-climbing land where you and yours can spray to your heart's content - you know - stick to what you are good at.
Damn. I guess I'll have to make a trip out to Seneca just to piss you guys off. 
FWIW, I also really resent the fact that magazines tend to "import" "hard" climbers, usually from Colorado, to local areas, and shortchange the locals who have put so much work into their areas. It happens a lot. The fact that many hard Southern climbers are pretty low key (even secretive) about their accomplishments only furthers myths like this in the national climbing media.
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hansundfritz
Dec 31, 2009, 5:26 PM
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I had a similar reaction about the criticism of the "locals" (who live in DC and PGH). It did give credit to Seneca for its hard grades and singled out Gunsight to South Peak as a truly fantastic climb at 5.4. I was disappointed that they mostly ignored some of the moderate classics (Green Wall). They could have connected with average joe climbers better that way.
Too much attention to the Gendarme. Visitors can't climb it. Old timers learned nothing new. Ho-hum. Almost a waste of ink.
And why climb on the Southern Pillar? Hardly the scene of Seneca's best stuff. Why not venture onto the Bell Wall? Talk about a steep and scary place where very few venture.
I also thought that the photography was pretty lame for such a photogenic place. And am I correct that they used a fish-eye lens to shoot Madmen, making it look steeper than it really is?
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cchas
Dec 31, 2009, 5:57 PM
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why do you care if someone calls you a gumby or not (or for anything else for that matter). Just go out and pull down and see what YOUR limit is.
After 35+ yrs of climbing I profess proudly to be a gumbie since there are tons of people who climb harder then I do. I still am exploring my limit, I know my faults and what I need to work on, but enjoy every minute of what I do, ireegardless of what someone calls me.
(This post was edited by cchas on Dec 31, 2009, 5:58 PM)
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dreday3000
Dec 31, 2009, 6:34 PM
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cchas wrote: why do you care if someone calls you a gumby or not (or for anything else for that matter). Just go out and pull down and see what YOUR limit is. .
I'm not bothered by a personal attack, but the article wasn't about my specific climbing abilities. It was about Seneca. From what I've seen at Seneca, I think the author missed a wide swath of climbers who are doing plenty of tough climbs. That's all I'm saying.
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