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angry
Feb 22, 2010, 3:45 PM
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Without ever having worn them, I'd say they look sweet.
I'm 100% Evolve but could see fit wearing these on lots of stuff. It's quite possible that someone has finally filled the gap in the market left by the La Sportiva Kaukulator. It's only been what, 12 years without them?
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acorneau
Feb 22, 2010, 3:49 PM
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angry wrote: Without ever having worn them, I'd say they look sweet. I'm 100% Evolve but could see fit wearing these on lots of stuff. It's quite possible that someone has finally filled the gap in the market left by the La Sportiva Kaukulator. It's only been what, 12 years without them?
I thought the Maximus filled that hole (giggidy) a few years back?
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angry
Feb 22, 2010, 3:57 PM
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acorneau wrote: angry wrote: Without ever having worn them, I'd say they look sweet. I'm 100% Evolve but could see fit wearing these on lots of stuff. It's quite possible that someone has finally filled the gap in the market left by the La Sportiva Kaukulator. It's only been what, 12 years without them? I thought the Maximus filled that hole (giggidy) a few years back?
It was a very nice wall shoe. Comfy to stand in aiders, do a fair bit of walking, and jam the occasional perfect hand crack or wider. Once into the off width size, it wasn't too good because it's cut was more akin to a hiking shoe than a climbing shoe, meaning if you hang from your feet, it can come off.
I did hike down the gully in the Black Canyon wearing a pair and climb The Scenic Cruise in them. One pair of shoes all day, approach and climb. That route was rated 10d, for those shoes, it was a tad beyond them. I didn't fall but in a few sections I worked way too hard.
The Kaukulator was not an approach shoe or wall boot. It was a bad ass high top rock climbing shoe. A sweet last, a thin toe for thin cracks, solid support, and sexy in blue. It was replaced by the Mega, the Enduro, and Scarpa made the Generator.
I've had all of these shoes, the Kaukulator is vastly superior. This new 5.10 looks to be similar. I hope it is.
FWIW, the photo of me in the Maximus (you know the one), was a warm up. When I sent that route, it was in Generators.
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angry
Feb 22, 2010, 4:04 PM
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A friend of mine has a pair. I was extremely interested in them until he got his. They're a little chunky monkey for my tastes. I'd like to try a pair on in my size though and see if they look different on my feet.
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ryanb
Feb 22, 2010, 4:31 PM
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I think I will pick up a pair of the grandstones if I can find a place to try them on...been feeling the need for a stiff bluntish shoe for long days of edgy granite slab and these seem like they will work well if they aren't impossible to get on and off.
Angry, curiouse why you don't include the TC pro on your list of kaukulator replacements? It seems great beyond the price tag and the pointy sportiva toe.
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karcand
Feb 22, 2010, 4:41 PM
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What is the purpose of the Hightop shoe
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lemon_boy
Feb 22, 2010, 4:56 PM
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this shoe almost looks great, but the lack of rubber around the heel cup means it will get shredded if you are climbing a lot of OW. this was a problem with their last pair of high tops (the white ones), but they don't seem to have learned anything from it.
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sidepull
Feb 22, 2010, 5:25 PM
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karcand wrote: What is the purpose of the Hightop shoe
To limit the flexibility of your foot and thereby make routes/problems seem harder than they should. Honestly, I can't think of a rockclimbing purpose (please correct me) that is better achieved by limiting ankle mobility. It seems that this sort of design had more to do with the evolution from hiking boot to climbing shoe rather than any technical/physiological advantage.
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gmggg
Feb 22, 2010, 5:30 PM
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Someone's never taped their ankles...
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styndall
Feb 22, 2010, 5:43 PM
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sidepull wrote: karcand wrote: What is the purpose of the Hightop shoe To limit the flexibility of your foot and thereby make routes/problems seem harder than they should. Honestly, I can't think of a rockclimbing purpose (please correct me) that is better achieved by limiting ankle mobility. It seems that this sort of design had more to do with the evolution from hiking boot to climbing shoe rather than any technical/physiological advantage.
Extra stiffness and more coverage in cracks are the answers you're looking for.
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the_climber
Feb 22, 2010, 5:49 PM
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sidepull wrote: karcand wrote: What is the purpose of the Hightop shoe To limit the flexibility of your foot and thereby make routes/problems seem harder than they should. Honestly, I can't think of a rockclimbing purpose (please correct me) that is better achieved by limiting ankle mobility. It seems that this sort of design had more to do with the evolution from hiking boot to climbing shoe rather than any technical/physiological advantage.
I'm going to take a wild guess and blindly state that you must be a gym rat, sport wanker who spends more time wrestling pebbles than actually climbing... and most of your routes are only 1 pitch.
And you would be correct in assuming that I'm a ground up trad climber who can be an asshole at times.
The benefits of a high top range from ankle support for all day climbs (not to be confused with a short climb that takes all day), to protecting your ankles while crack climbing. Comfort and stability are also some benefits of using a hightop.
Now, are there many advantages to using a hightop in the gym, or while bouldering, or on steep roofs (wide roof cracks being an exception)... likely not.
On 550-600+m of continuous slab, ankle shredding cracks, new ground where you could be spending anywhere from 1hour to 4+ hours leading a pitch, aid climbing, face climbing where pro is intricated to piece together and maintaining a stance for extended periods of time is required, and many many more situations.... the stability, support, comfort, and protection from a hightop can make a difference. That difference could be success, or simply the difference between type 1 and type 2 fun.
They have their place and advantages, in the same way as slippers and low cut lace up shoes do. Different tools designed for different jobs. Why used a rock to pound a nail into a board when you should be using a hammer?
(This post was edited by the_climber on Feb 22, 2010, 5:51 PM)
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styndall
Feb 22, 2010, 6:36 PM
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I thought the Newton had been around for a while. I remember seeing some (green, maybe?) around 2002 or so.
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sp00ki
Feb 22, 2010, 6:54 PM
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Talk to me about them.
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brokenankle
Feb 22, 2010, 7:52 PM
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It has been around, or rather it was. They seemed to quit making them several years ago, but I absolutely loved mine. I bought them in circa 2003, and after many resoles they are still rocking pretty hard. The newton was wide, lined and comfy. Im excited about them coming back.
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vegastradguy
Feb 22, 2010, 9:50 PM
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spooki- this may be indeed a great shoe for you to start crack climbing in. it was a very popular shoe for trad back in the day, and i didnt even realize that they had discontinued it- until they told me they were bringing it back.
i get the impression that this shoe is built in along the same mindset as the TC Pro- basically a go all day, do everything trad shoe that you can climb 5.14 sport in as well. now, i LOVE my TC Pros- they took awhile to break in, but they are probably the best trad shoe i own...and if they were a lowtop, i'd probably wear them for everything- so maybe this is a good choice.
i think they're available now- or will be shortly- go get your paws on a pair and see how they fit.
ps- i cant recall if they are synthetic- but they look it.
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acorneau
Feb 22, 2010, 9:54 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: ps- i cant recall if they are synthetic- but they look it.
From the description:
"Lined Perfalon uppers are highly breathable and stretch resistant, with sticky Stealth® C4™ outsoles for durability and high-friction dependability."
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sspssp
Feb 22, 2010, 11:25 PM
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the_climber wrote: sidepull wrote: karcand wrote: What is the purpose of the Hightop shoe To limit the flexibility of your foot and thereby make routes/problems seem harder than they should. Honestly, I can't think of a rockclimbing purpose (please correct me) that is better achieved by limiting ankle mobility. It seems that this sort of design had more to do with the evolution from hiking boot to climbing shoe rather than any technical/physiological advantage. I'm going to take a wild guess and blindly state that you must be a gym rat, sport wanker who spends more time wrestling pebbles than actually climbing... and most of your routes are only 1 pitch.
For a beginners shoe, a hightop might not be unreasonable. But if you have some experience and have built up some foot muscles, I think a low top is the way to go. I've spent 18 hours climbing half dome (no speed records for me) in mythos including standing in alpine aiders for the couple pitches of aid on the zigzags. No big deal if you have built up to it (and if you tape the ankles for the squeeze chimney). The finer foot control is so worth it...
(This post was edited by sspssp on Feb 22, 2010, 11:26 PM)
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sp00ki
Feb 22, 2010, 11:58 PM
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brokenankle wrote: It has been around, or rather it was. They seemed to quit making them several years ago, but I absolutely loved mine. I bought them in circa 2003, and after many resoles they are still rocking pretty hard. The newton was wide, lined and comfy. Im excited about them coming back.
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Feb 23, 2010, 12:10 AM)
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ryanb
Feb 23, 2010, 12:59 AM
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sp00ki wrote: brokenankle wrote: It has been around, or rather it was. They seemed to quit making them several years ago, but I absolutely loved mine. I bought them in circa 2003, and after many resoles they are still rocking pretty hard. The newton was wide, lined and comfy. Im excited about them coming back. Too early to say anything conclusive about sizing, obviously, but how is five ten's consistency with that? I wear a (TIGHT) size 9.5 in the Team 5.10... Should I anticipate getting other Five Tens in the same?
No. They are fairly consistent within lasts...ie the dragon, v10 and team all seem to fit fairly similarly to each other as do the various anasazi but there can be big differences between different models. I wear 10 in the teams and 9 in the anasazi for example...you can sometimes guess at your sizing by reading reviews but I'm holding out to try these things on.
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the_climber
Feb 23, 2010, 2:53 AM
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sspssp wrote: For a beginners shoe, a hightop might not be unreasonable.
sspssp wrote: But if you have some experience and have built up some foot muscles, I think a low top is the way to go.
sspssp wrote: I've spent 18 hours climbing half dome (no speed records for me) in mythos including standing in alpine aiders for the couple pitches of aid on the zigzags.
sspssp wrote: No big deal if you have built up to it (and if you tape the ankles for the squeeze chimney). The finer foot control is so worth it...
It comes down to using different tools for different jobs.
As always YMMV.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Feb 23, 2010, 2:59 AM)
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Potts875
Feb 23, 2010, 3:45 AM
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the_climber wrote: Now, are there many advantages to using a hightop in the gym, or while bouldering, or on steep roofs (wide roof cracks being an exception)... likely not.
During day 1 of a trip to Salt Lake we ran in to about 6" of snow so we hit the gym. I rolled my ankle and sprained it real bad all beore I got on the rock.
Day 2 was sunny and 60 and luckily I had my Kauk's. I bouldered like a mad man in LCC, climbed Castleton and cranked at Joes Valley in those shoes!
My high top Kauks saved my trip!
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