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stoneraven
May 19, 2010, 2:38 PM
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As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive?
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bill413
May 19, 2010, 2:58 PM
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stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? I find naming the routes helps in talking about them. And, provides some amusement. Instead of the discussion - "Did you try that red route on the left side of the back wall that is right of the nose?" You can say "Did you try 'John hates my arms?'" It's actually clearer than having them unnamed. Not all names are great. But, why not name them?
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karmiclimber
May 19, 2010, 3:22 PM
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stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? Woah...yes, I find that offensive. Can't we stick to sex and drug based names for shock value? On another note, I do like it when the routes are named...and I also like it when the gyms stick to traditional grading...mine has a weird system that I sort of have a handle on, but not really.
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edge
May 19, 2010, 3:38 PM
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stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months.
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hacksaw
May 19, 2010, 3:49 PM
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Maybe, "Belay Slave," would have been more accurate name...
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olderic
May 19, 2010, 4:31 PM
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edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. No no - you are miising the point of why its offensive - cliimbing on plastic is supposed to be such a sanitized experience that having anything edgy (note how I worked that in - I crack myself up) is unacceptable.
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karmiclimber
May 19, 2010, 8:12 PM
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edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo.
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edge
May 19, 2010, 8:20 PM
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karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names.
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karmiclimber
May 19, 2010, 8:24 PM
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edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names. Right. But "names" are a conduit to making people feel comfortable with looking down on other people, be it their skin color, religious beliefs or even sexual preferences. It may seem benign...but to me, you have to stand up for whats right. And...that ain't right.
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edge
May 19, 2010, 8:30 PM
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karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names. Right. But "names" are a conduit to making people feel comfortable with looking down on other people, be it their skin color, religious beliefs or even sexual preferences. It may seem benign...but to me, you have to stand up for whats right. And...that ain't right. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but will not allow myself to be upset over words. If someone chooses to be un-PC, that is their problem, not anything I need to be consumed by.
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karmiclimber
May 19, 2010, 8:34 PM
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edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names. Right. But "names" are a conduit to making people feel comfortable with looking down on other people, be it their skin color, religious beliefs or even sexual preferences. It may seem benign...but to me, you have to stand up for whats right. And...that ain't right. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but will not allow myself to be upset over words. If someone chooses to be un-PC, that is their problem, not anything I need to be consumed by. Bah...I'm a feisty chica. And also I have a WIDELY diverse group of close friends...so I take it a little more personally.
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ax
May 19, 2010, 11:54 PM
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Not a new thing out here... I've been naming my gym routes for years. It's one of the things that makes the route a little more special / personal for the setter. I think it also can give a route more character. To intimidate, lul, whatever... the climber. I know of many climbers that really dig it. And as mentioned above it's also easier to talk about it. Much better to say "Billy's Bad Beat" or "Gettin' Laid Back" than ... "that blue one on rope 24". When I was the wall manager, I gave setters artistic license on their route names. It got a little crazy sometimes but most of the time no one got offended. And the rule was if anyone ever was,.. just change it. No problem!
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robinsmv
May 20, 2010, 12:01 AM
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slavery has been a part of societies for thousands if not tens of thousands of years. the slave trade in itself does not target any one group of people. you can find slaves throughout history from any number of races, religions, and creeds. is it the nicest practice in the world? of course not. is it racially insensitive, not really. people need to stop feeling like everyone is stepping on their toes. if your feet hurt that much up size your shoe by half a size.
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patmay81
May 20, 2010, 12:17 AM
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karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names. Right. But "names" are a conduit to making people feel comfortable with looking down on other people, be it their skin color, religious beliefs or even sexual preferences. It may seem benign...but to me, you have to stand up for whats right. And...that ain't right. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but will not allow myself to be upset over words. If someone chooses to be un-PC, that is their problem, not anything I need to be consumed by. Bah...I'm a feisty chica. And also I have a WIDELY diverse group of close friends...so I take it a little more personally. maybe by "slave trade" the route setter is implying that you will look back having climbed it and think; "wow, I was really ignorant and insensitive to have been involved in that. I wish I had known how much of a douche I was going to be while on that route, I never would have even started the climb."
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pylonhead
May 20, 2010, 12:41 AM
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robinsmv wrote: slavery has been a part of societies for thousands if not tens of thousands of years. the slave trade in itself does not target any one group of people. you can find slaves throughout history from any number of races, religions, and creeds. is it the nicest practice in the world? of course not. is it racially insensitive, not really. people need to stop feeling like everyone is stepping on their toes. if your feet hurt that much up size your shoe by half a size. You're either tragically disconnected from the world around you or simply disingenuous to state that you can name something "The Slave Trade" in Virginia without it targeting a specific group of people.
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robinsmv
May 20, 2010, 1:01 AM
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pylonhead wrote: robinsmv wrote: slavery has been a part of societies for thousands if not tens of thousands of years. the slave trade in itself does not target any one group of people. you can find slaves throughout history from any number of races, religions, and creeds. is it the nicest practice in the world? of course not. is it racially insensitive, not really. people need to stop feeling like everyone is stepping on their toes. if your feet hurt that much up size your shoe by half a size. You're either tragically disconnected from the world around you or simply disingenuous to state that you can name something "The Slave Trade" in Virginia without it targeting a specific group of people. good to know that its ok to use the name "the slave trade" anywhere but Virginia, or the rest of the American south for that matter. Is it ok to use it in Egypt where slaves built the pyramids. Or in Italy where slaves fought to the death in the Colliseum. Or maybe the route setter was trying to be particularly deep and say that we often trade slavery for advances in industry and culture. Maybe without the slaves in the world there would not be a gym to set that route in today. Maybe the person is a racist biggot. Maybe its just a name for a difficult route that will cause alot of suffering. Maybe those who climb it will ask for a refund in the form of reparations for their time spent toiling in the gym. No one can state why the route setter called it that except for the route setter. If someone is offended by it they shouldn't climb it, or bring it up to the gym manager.
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dynosore
May 20, 2010, 1:43 AM
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Holy politically correct ridiculousness. All the horrors that happen every day in our world and people worry about things like this? No polack jokes please, I'm polish and would be highly offended back to the topic at hand, naming gym routes is convenient.
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Bats
May 20, 2010, 3:15 AM
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To change the directions... One of my buddies, excellent route setter, named every route that he set from Pink Floyd's Darkside of the Moon. Another did name routes based on Jimmy Paige's chords, now talked about research. During the Lord of the Rings Phase, it was like every gym had some reference to the triology. Now some the outdoor climbs that were named during the 70s, you know there was some serious drug use going on.
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jbrown2
May 20, 2010, 3:59 AM
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Anal Intruder Number Ten, Daily Dick Dose, Pumped Full of Semen, Red Neck Rail, Gaged and Bound, Hand Job Wall, The Vulgarians, Pulpit Pooper, Slap That Bitch. Names from across the country. Climbs, groups, places. Climbing has, in its history a will to test bounds. A yearning to push limits. As climbers we push ourselves not only physically but we challenge ourselves to question the world and the moral practices within society. Naming climbs that push individual boundaries is not meant to be purely offensive. It is meant to solicit reactions and induce thought. Rude, offensive, improper. Each of us sees the world as we believe it is. Perhaps the name of a climb brings up your own personal prejudices and makes us think, learn and move on to a more open way of being.
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stoneraven
May 20, 2010, 5:13 AM
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thanks for all replies!...as one of your few african-american climbers I was not offended by the name per se...rather the thought of some white 20 something flippantly naming an indoor climb seen by young children and the odd person of color...how do you think this makes me feel? why not name a climb White Oppression? how about Stupid Nigger? Outdoor climbs..sky is the limit for naming...indoor...better check yourself honky
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irregularpanda
May 20, 2010, 5:49 AM
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karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: karmiclimber wrote: edge wrote: stoneraven wrote: As a "retired" setter I find myself wondering why some are now naming climbs in gyms..Silliness..or worse...while recently at a gym in VA one climb was named Slave Trade...does anyone else find this offensive? First, why is "Slave Trade" offensive? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Naming gym routes is what it is. The setter just spent hours of their life making artificial moves on an artificial surface, and need to stamp it with their personality. So what? It's not like it will be there in a couple of months. Um...It strikes me as ignorant. Just like when I go to the grocery store and the aisle says "Oriental Food". Seriously? Its ASIAN. From ASIA. Not "the Orient." I dunno...some things, you just don't go there, imo. I guess, but wasn't it also known as the "Orient" for a really long time? From the Latin for "East?" As far as "Slave Trade" goes, well, I can think of countless self deprecating white person names that are just that, names. Right. But "names" are a conduit to making people feel comfortable with looking down on other people, be it their skin color, religious beliefs or even sexual preferences. It may seem benign...but to me, you have to stand up for whats right. And...that ain't right. Also, in our "wisdom" from this modern age we look back at certain terms and deem them offensive, or decide that the context they were used in was offensive. At the same time, these terms are going to continue to be offensive until they start to be taken back. I could think of about 300 phrases right now that I won't say. These derogatory terms will continue to hold a repressive and degrading power over the people they refer to, until they are used so frequently that the word itself loses power completely. The film towelhead comes to mind, as the director attempted to do just that, by addressing the racism directly and unapologetically.
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dynosore
May 20, 2010, 12:22 PM
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stoneraven wrote: thanks for all replies!...as one of your few african-american climbers I was not offended by the name per se...rather the thought of some white 20 something flippantly naming an indoor climb seen by young children and the odd person of color...how do you think this makes me feel? why not name a climb White Oppression? how about Stupid Nigger? Outdoor climbs..sky is the limit for naming...indoor...better check yourself honky Honky? Let's face it, every one has biases and preconceived notions. As a white Christian male I hear and see things that offend my beliefs many times a day. I'm Polish to boot. The trick in life is to be sure of yourself, who you are and what you stand for. What others say stopped mattering to me a long time ago. I know who I am.
(This post was edited by dynosore on May 20, 2010, 12:24 PM)
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karmiclimber
May 20, 2010, 12:37 PM
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robinsmv wrote: pylonhead wrote: robinsmv wrote: slavery has been a part of societies for thousands if not tens of thousands of years. the slave trade in itself does not target any one group of people. you can find slaves throughout history from any number of races, religions, and creeds. is it the nicest practice in the world? of course not. is it racially insensitive, not really. people need to stop feeling like everyone is stepping on their toes. if your feet hurt that much up size your shoe by half a size. You're either tragically disconnected from the world around you or simply disingenuous to state that you can name something "The Slave Trade" in Virginia without it targeting a specific group of people. good to know that its ok to use the name "the slave trade" anywhere but Virginia, or the rest of the American south for that matter. Is it ok to use it in Egypt where slaves built the pyramids. Or in Italy where slaves fought to the death in the Colliseum. Or maybe the route setter was trying to be particularly deep and say that we often trade slavery for advances in industry and culture. Maybe without the slaves in the world there would not be a gym to set that route in today. Maybe the person is a racist biggot. Maybe its just a name for a difficult route that will cause alot of suffering. Maybe those who climb it will ask for a refund in the form of reparations for their time spent toiling in the gym. No one can state why the route setter called it that except for the route setter. If someone is offended by it they shouldn't climb it, or bring it up to the gym manager. Um. Lets talk about how long ago the slave trade was happening in America...Are you a white male? Yes? STFU. Your ignorance is shameful. When I take my friends to the climbing gym, I should not have to worry that they will feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because of a name like "slave trade". Maybe when this is 1,000 years behind us, it would be okay. But our nation is NOT OVER what happened to African Americans in the south.
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karmiclimber
May 20, 2010, 12:44 PM
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jbrown2 wrote: Anal Intruder Number Ten, Daily Dick Dose, Pumped Full of Semen, Red Neck Rail, Gaged and Bound, Hand Job Wall, The Vulgarians, Pulpit Pooper, Slap That Bitch. Names from across the country. Climbs, groups, places. Climbing has, in its history a will to test bounds. A yearning to push limits. As climbers we push ourselves not only physically but we challenge ourselves to question the world and the moral practices within society. Naming climbs that push individual boundaries is not meant to be purely offensive. It is meant to solicit reactions and induce thought. Rude, offensive, improper. Each of us sees the world as we believe it is. Perhaps the name of a climb brings up your own personal prejudices and makes us think, learn and move on to a more open way of being. Yeah, I climbed a route at Smith called "BBQ the Pope"...if you can't tell the difference between a name that attacks a man/position revered by people the WORLD over and a group of people oppressed by a bunch of douchebag users in the south, there is something wrong with you. They were treated as subhuman. Children were sold separately from their mothers and abused. Don't get me wrong...yes slaves have been around since God knows when. But the slave trade happened in America just a little over a hundred years ago, with segregation and racism plaguing our nation until the 70's and of course, racism still haunting us to this day. Shameful.
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hyhuu
May 20, 2010, 12:48 PM
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Talking about gym routes. Really???
bill413 wrote: I find naming the routes helps in talking about them. And, provides some amusement. Instead of the discussion - "Did you try that red route on the left side of the back wall that is right of the nose?" You can say "Did you try 'John hates my arms?'" It's actually clearer than having them unnamed. Not all names are great. But, why not name them?
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