I know there's people out there who just taught themselves with some friends how to sport climb. But are there any people who just bought a rack of nuts and cams with friends and tried teaching themselves how to lead trad? I mean hopefully that guy/girl isn't out there squished at the bottom of a cliff. I'll apologize in advance if this is a complete waste of your time.

-G

Nah, if you are a 5.13 climber it should not take you more than a few weeks to get solid on trad provideing that you take that same work ethic you used to get to the 5.13 level and apply it to learning trad.

It is not a big secret or anything special. it's fairly simple stuff if you just do it.

Place early, place often, look ahead and don't climb yourself into a tricky spot with no gear. Stay away from climbs with crap gear or bad runouts.

okay so how did you sprain your ankle?

I am self taught, but I would have rather learn from someone experienced inf I could do it all over again. There is a lot of luck involved in surviving that "I read a few books and I know what I am doing" stage.

I think being self-taught has made me very cautious. Being taught by another person may come with bad habits/opinions.

Trad is this easy man.
1. Dont climb past a piece you would not fall on.
2. Place the cam in the rock where it fits, and will not break or slip.
3. Place the nut,hex,or tri-cam in the rock where it fits and will not break or slip.
There ya go man the best way to learn this is to practice I recommend getting on some really easy stuff where you are not going to fall. Get used to alot of the issues you will encounter when plugging gear. Learn to keep you composer get pieces in the rock, and once you have a few solid pieces under you go ahead run it out a few feet and take your first fall to build some confidence. I only recommend that after finding several nice cracks where you have some passive pro in that is clearly lodged in constrictions loaded for down and outward force.

Trad is this easy man.
1. Dont climb past a piece you would not fall on.
2. Place the cam in the rock where it fits, and will not break or slip.
3. Place the nut,hex,or tri-cam in the rock where it fits and will not break or slip.
There ya go man the best way to learn this is to practice I recommend getting on some really easy stuff where you are not going to fall. Get used to alot of the issues you will encounter when plugging gear. Learn to keep you composer get pieces in the rock, and once you have a few solid pieces under you go ahead run it out a few feet and take your first fall to build some confidence. I only recommend that after finding several nice cracks where you have some passive pro in that is clearly lodged in constrictions loaded for down and outward force.

Well "Bob" I love hearing trad climbers like you talk about it. Yes everything you talked about is very important I totally agree. But you only learn by doing. I did not tell him to go do big wall climbs. Just simply some traditional leading outside thats it. I dont know your climbing history nor do I care but I find alot of old trad dogs try and scare guys learning to lead due to the fact they want to make the 8s and 9s they climb seem way more dangerous than they actually are. I hope this is not the case with you if it is, well then maybe you should worry about climbing a little more than calling other climbers advice a load of crap. Thanks Bob

Yea you guys are right, guess I dont know what im talking about. Thanks for your insight and correcting my load of crap advise. To the guy I was giving advise to im sorry please do not listen to me. Listen to these guys. You should mach lead and place gear for years having one of them look over your shoulder so they can show you the way they do it. They have built scenarios of what could happen and you need to be aware of it. Oh no I just thought of something... ... .... the rope could break.... thats it I quit im going to take up a safer sport like bowing.

I will also agree trad can be learned well in a small time frame. I did an ElCap route with a partner that a month previous, had placed no gear beyond a sport draw or anchor sling.

He took a course in Germany, came out to Yosemite, where I met him, and climbed with a Columbian and a couple of us domestic fellows. He asked for critique on the first couple of leads, and after about six or so, I could find little to nothing to help him improve.

He took off on a wall with me and another gent, and I would say after about 15 aid leads by him, he is more solid now than over half of the seasoned partners I have had previously.

Was it the instruction? Was it his ability to analyze, learn quickly, or just dumb luck? I believe it was all the above. The man had quite a quiver full of tricks and tips, and knew where and when they were needed. Without understanding a few key things, seemingly benign things will crawl up and bite you, maybe just a scare, but more than likely much more serious than that.

Just a quick for instance, jam a cam, or even a bomber tricam in the best placement you can. Now clip it with a sport draw and start up further, wander over the roof, or traverse, or maybe even right straight up. I have seen many pieces hanging by the draw at the next lower placement when a shoulder length runner would have given enough cushion to the placement for it to remain bomber, easy to follow these guys, but a tad scary to climb with em all day a ways off the deck. Potential for disaster goes up exponentially when you don't know a couple simple things.

Burly Bob