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JimTitt
Jun 3, 2010, 6:32 PM
Post #26 of 36
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For running laps on sport routes, where the rope is usually long enough to be used doubled by far the fastest, easiest and safest way is to tie the rope off at the anchors and run a shunt on one rope and a modded grigri on the other. I trail the grigri on a 30cm sling through the tie-in points on the harness and leave a bit of slack on this rope at the weight as well to reduce the clusterf*ck. The grigri is a back-up for the shunt and coming down is only a matter of pulling up the grigri, you can squeeze the shunt open with the hand holding the rope below the grigri when you ab.
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jonathan.gaillard
Jun 4, 2010, 9:01 PM
Post #27 of 36
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youll have to pardon me for asking once again but I was trying this out earlier and still had trouble. How to unweight the ascender with the prusik? do you put a sling on it and stand in the prusik while holding the rope with the other hand? (assuming it is attached to you with yet another sling?) I am a bit confused on the details as to what the prusik is attached to or nothing at all...
As to the grigri and shunt way, if your hanging in freespace how do you transfer your weight to the grigri?
Thanks guys!
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JimTitt
Jun 4, 2010, 9:16 PM
Post #28 of 36
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Never used a Prusik (spelt with a capital P by the way as it is a persons name) for soloing so no advice here.
The usual way with a Grigri (or Shunt) is to `batman´, wrap the rope under the grigri around your foot a few times and stand up, sliding the Grigri up with one hand. The ability to either one-arm pull-up on the rope or batman makes top-rope soloing much simpler. Personally I just one arm up on the ropes and jerk the Grigri up.
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jonathan.gaillard
Jun 4, 2010, 9:28 PM
Post #29 of 36
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But isn't the ascender still in the way when you do that?
So if I am thinking right (as I tried the batman earlier), you stick the grigri below the ascender while sitting on the ascender, wrap the rope under grigri around the foot (3 times or so for enough friction, awkward) and then stand on one foot and hold rope above ascender to not tip backwards. Then remove the ascender with one hand? Then sit down from your foot stance onto the grigri.. where does sliding the thing up come in?
(This post was edited by jonathan.gaillard on Jun 4, 2010, 9:29 PM)
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jonathan.gaillard
Jun 5, 2010, 12:42 AM
Post #30 of 36
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Hmm just realised. does anyone use three lines? I mean if we are going to the trouble of laying two lines might as well be three and then the rappels are super fast at the changeover.
Actually come to think of it, if your hanging in space I guess the real issue is getting your weight off the ascender, which isn't going to magically happen with a third line.
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JimTitt
Jun 5, 2010, 7:43 PM
Post #31 of 36
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You are not paying attention!
You have two ropes, on one is the Shunt or ascender (for me it is a Shunt as ascenders are crap for roped soloing in my opinion) and on the other rope is a modded Grigri. The Shunt is directly attatched to your belay loop. The Grigri is attatched using a short sling through the tie-in points on your harness.
You sit on the Shunt, pull the Grigri up as tight as possible and then batman up pulling the Grigri tight as you go until the Grigri is holding your weight, then you can release the Shunt and abseil on the Grigri. normally I batman on the Grigri rope and slide it up with one hand but this would only work with a modded Grigri I guess.
The Grigri is extended on a sling for two reasons, to keep it away from the shunt when climbing and when you are abbing the Gigri is now above the Shunt so you can use one hand for the rope and squeeze the Shunt at the same time. This way you don´t need to remove anything and you´ve got a back-up for abbing (which I think is totally unescessary by the way).
Using a rubber band or something like a Petzl String is a good idea to keep the Shunt and Grigri in position on the karabiner preventing them loading the gate. Using a 6mm bungee cord shoulder sling is a good idea to keep the Shunt upright under tension. The Grigri should be left free to move.
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jonathan.gaillard
Jun 7, 2010, 5:51 PM
Post #32 of 36
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JimTitt wrote: You are not paying attention! You have two ropes, on one is the Shunt or ascender (for me it is a Shunt as ascenders are crap for roped soloing in my opinion) and on the other rope is a modded Grigri. The Shunt is directly attatched to your belay loop. The Grigri is attatched using a short sling through the tie-in points on your harness. You sit on the Shunt, pull the Grigri up as tight as possible and then batman up pulling the Grigri tight as you go until the Grigri is holding your weight, then you can release the Shunt and abseil on the Grigri. normally I batman on the Grigri rope and slide it up with one hand but this would only work with a modded Grigri I guess. The Grigri is extended on a sling for two reasons, to keep it away from the shunt when climbing and when you are abbing the Gigri is now above the Shunt so you can use one hand for the rope and squeeze the Shunt at the same time. This way you don´t need to remove anything and you´ve got a back-up for abbing (which I think is totally unescessary by the way). Using a rubber band or something like a Petzl String is a good idea to keep the Shunt and Grigri in position on the karabiner preventing them loading the gate. Using a 6mm bungee cord shoulder sling is a good idea to keep the Shunt upright under tension. The Grigri should be left free to move.
My apologies sir ! I follow you now. So two questions. Why do you think ascenders are crap (non toothed ones) for soloing? Also, how do you rap with the shunt in one hand and the grigri in the other, what are you just pressing the cam in without touching the brake end of the rope? O.o
I think I will still use knots though as I don't know if two ascender like devices gives me that warm fuzzy. Also if I put a knot 2 or 3 feet from the anchor it is a pretty good handle for the batman when I get there. Also it turns out that it is easier for me to batman using the knoted rope to wrap around foot since there is no weight on it... dont know why i didnt realise that before.
I guess the shunt is designed as it is so that when weighted you can still just squeeze it? Where you can't with an ascender...
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JimTitt
Jun 7, 2010, 6:20 PM
Post #33 of 36
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As the Shunt is directly on your harness and the Grigri is on a short sling when you are abbing the Shunt is now below the Grigri so you can both squeeze the Shunt open and grip the rope below the Grigri with the same hand.
As you note, the Shunt can easily be squeezed to go down or towed with a release cord if required (I don´t but my Brother does).
I´ve been roped soloing since 1967 with Prusik loops on hawser-laid ropes, ascenders and about everything else ever made, for easy stuff where the rope is only a back-up then usually it would be either a Shunt or the Grigri but not both (I´m not bothered about backing-up a back-up), for working harder routes then the Shunt takes the falls and the Grigri is the back-up. For harder routes on a single rope then Grigri all the way with maybe a knot or two.
I´ve had the rope come out of an ascender so no thanks!
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healyje
Jun 7, 2010, 6:32 PM
Post #34 of 36
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JimTitt wrote: For running laps on sport routes, where the rope is usually long enough to be used doubled by far the fastest, easiest and safest way is to tie the rope off at the anchors and run a shunt on one rope and a modded grigri on the other. I trail the grigri on a 30cm sling through the tie-in points on the harness and leave a bit of slack on this rope at the weight as well to reduce the clusterf*ck. The grigri is a back-up for the shunt and coming down is only a matter of pulling up the grigri, you can squeeze the shunt open with the hand holding the rope below the grigri when you ab.
That's would seem radical overkill. About half my climbing is lead roped-soloing and back when I used a grigri for it I would second every pitch to clean it which is essentially TR'ing on a grigri. Is it great, not really, but it works fine on its own.
I'm also a huge Shunt fan and have two I use, but principally for rapping with loads and working on anchors. I do not use them, not would I recommend them for TR soloing; it's just too much pressure on a small point of rope in a fall - even potentially a TR fall - for my comfort regardless of what Petzl says.
If you are going to use a Shunt to TR a doubled line then just use it and skip the grigri. Or, if you want two devices use dual Minitraxions or Microsender-type devices.
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JimTitt
Jun 7, 2010, 6:44 PM
Post #35 of 36
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`If you are going to use a Shunt to TR a doubled line then just use it and skip the grigri. Or, if you want two devices use dual Minitraxions or Microsender-type devices.´
But then you are back to the problem of rapping the route, I used to change over to a plate but when you are doing loads of short (like 10m) routes it becomes a pain to keep doing it, as it is I can usually do 6 routes without changing anything until I have to move the anchor point.
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healyje
Jun 7, 2010, 6:50 PM
Post #36 of 36
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That's why I'd just use dual minis on a single line and carry an ATC. Either that or just use a grigri or eddy on a single line.
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