Picture this; The first leader climbs the route and the rope is put through two locked lockers at the top of a route for several people to TR. Now, you pull it because you have decided to lead the route. You lead the climb (imagine it's a hard climb) and get to the anchors, where you can barely hang on to clip the anchors. Only now, you have to deal with two locked biners instead of just clipping the anchors. Get it now?

I only mean that when sport climbing, it would be unusual to have a draw with a locker on it with you. Hence, top ropes on sport routes are usually comprised of just two ordinary draws.

Jay

Great thread!

If you where writing a top-rope-how-to book with your name on the cover, would you recommend the setup you use on a daily basis, or maybe add a locker?

Only if the combined open-gate strength of the two non-locking biners can be exceeded. So, the conclusion you are assuming, is that they can.

Jay

Good question. When you write a book, you have to be very conservative, so, based on these results, I'd probably say that a minimum setup would be a locker and a non-locker. But there is nothing here that convinces me, that for my own purposes, two non-locking quickdraws is inadequate.

Jay

1) if you have a quickdraw and you have a locker, you also easily have a quickdraw with a locker on it. Not having at least one locker at a sport crag is virtually unheard of.

Hey, it was your hypothetical buddy.

Good question. When you write a book, you have to be very conservative, so, based on these results, I'd probably say that a minimum setup would be a locker and a non-locker. But there is nothing here that convinces me, that for my own purposes, two non-locking quickdraws is inadequate.

Jay

You're missing the point of the post. The results aren't meant to be conclusive, but to stimulate discussion.

Jay

I learned a fair bit from the old Long anchor books, and I recall (don't have those books anymore) that it said two non locking opposite and opposed biners was adequate. This suggestion that a locker on the power point is mandatory is news to me, but I haven't read the new version of Long's anchor book.

But there is nothing here that convinces me, that for my own purposes, two non-locking quickdraws is inadequate.

Here's a clip from a respected how-to book from the early 1980s:

Is that image from Michael Loughman's book?

That book was my bible when I was learning, and Michael's wife was kinda hot in a sort of Daisy-Duke-meets-Camp-4 way.

At least a couple of the more recent Long books do say to include a locker. Is that because more has been learned?

Here's a clip from a respected how-to book from the early 1980s:

Really? The only locker I generally take sport climbing is my belay locker. I haven't used a locker on a sport climb/sport anchor in 8 years.

You REALLY only have one locker in your bag when you climb?
I always keep four: two for cleaning, one for belaying, one just in case.

You REALLY only have one locker in your bag when you climb?
I always keep four: two for cleaning, one for belaying, one just in case.
But even if you only had one, isn't it likely that your partner will have at least one too?
It doesn't really seem excessive once you acknowledge that they last a really long time.

There are well-known inverse relations between the number of years a person has climbed, and the number of lockers, hexes, belay devices, and yards of webbing he carries.

Jay

Hmmm. So it's fair to say that in a couple of years you'll finally be a pebble wrestler right?

for additional safety

Is that image from Michael Loughman's book? That book was my bible when I was learning, and Michael's wife was kinda hot in a sort of Daisy-Duke-meets-Camp-4 way.

Jay

She still is.

There are well-known inverse relations between the number of years a person has climbed, and the number of lockers, hexes, belay devices, and yards of webbing he carries.

So you know the Loughmans? Are they still climbing?

Jay