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jt512
Aug 20, 2010, 11:59 PM
Post #201 of 217
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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blondgecko wrote: jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: LostinMaine wrote: jt512 wrote: I have one high-signal comment to make: High signal-to-noise ratios don't happen on their own. The signal strength has to be defended. It can be defended by management or it can be defended by popular consent. But neither of those things happens here to any significant degree. If you want a high SNR, you have to reduce the noise. You have to stop the repetitive questions, have a FAQ, insist that it be consulted, insist that answers be googled for before questions are asked, etc. This is what every web site I know of that has a high SNR does. But the culture here is a noise culture. Look at what happens whenever a long-time user asks a n00b who has started a shoe thread for the 100th time in a month, to do a search. Who gets attacked: the experienced user. You want a high SNR? Well, you can't have it while continually rewarding noise. Jay While this is true to some degree, there is a lot to be gained by closer to real-time discussion than an FAQ can provide. Models change, perspectives change, and the dynamics of a user group change. Each of these can turn a tired subject into a meaningful discussion. Having said that, I tend to simply ignore clearly uneducated and poorly thought out questions all together. If someone really puts effort and thought into a "simple" question simply because it is outside of their typical realm of understanding, it is worth a genuine response. That, to me, is the advantage of a useful forum rather than an FAQ or static gear review. Edited to add: I guess to use your point above, I'm arguing that a high SNR can happen by increasing the signals rather than reducing the noise. No one is suggesting that a FAQ take the place of a forum. But the purpose of the forum should be to supplement the FAQ. It's not that hard: 1. Check the FAQ first. 2. Do a search. 3. Then, if your question still isn't completely answered, post the question. I've answered thousands of programming questions for myself by doing searches and reading FAQs, only to seem the exact same question later posted by someone to a forum. In high-SNR forums, such questions are rejected, either by the moderator or the user base. Jay Over and over this forum has rejected your version of internet Utopia. DMT I've conceded that elsewhere. The majority of users here have gotten not only what they deserve, but what they actually prefer: garbage. Jay I'd put it a bit differently. Seems to me you want rc.com to be a climbers' library, while pretty much everyone else wants it to be a climbers' bar. No, I just wish it were a better bar. Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 21, 2010, 12:00 AM)
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subantz
Aug 21, 2010, 1:19 AM
Post #202 of 217
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Registered: Dec 7, 2007
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curt wrote: ^^^^ Signal or noise? You decide. Curt I laughed a little
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subantz
Aug 21, 2010, 1:23 AM
Post #203 of 217
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Registered: Dec 7, 2007
Posts: 1247
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One red stripe please. A shot for wonderwoman cause shes a freak drunk. we are talkin butt love, yeah I said it.
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iamthewallress
Aug 22, 2010, 12:28 AM
Post #206 of 217
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
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blueeyedclimber wrote: As far as the bar analogy goes, I like it. When I go to the bar, we talk about climbing. There is certainly humor and childish hijinks involved, but centers around our daily sends. Josh What is the penalty for straying from the topic of climbing when you go to the bar?
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LostinMaine
Aug 22, 2010, 1:12 AM
Post #207 of 217
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Registered: May 8, 2007
Posts: 539
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iamthewallress wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: As far as the bar analogy goes, I like it. When I go to the bar, we talk about climbing. There is certainly humor and childish hijinks involved, but centers around our daily sends. Josh What is the penalty for straying from the topic of climbing when you go to the bar? Being the DD?
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 22, 2010, 1:20 AM
Post #208 of 217
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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iamthewallress wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: As far as the bar analogy goes, I like it. When I go to the bar, we talk about climbing. There is certainly humor and childish hijinks involved, but centers around our daily sends. Josh What is the penalty for straying from the topic of climbing when you go to the bar? And so we return back to the crux. What bar is this? Is it a biker (pedal or motor), kayaker, gay, or meat market? In theory it is a climber’s bar. Which means that climbers (and people who troll climbers) come here. But why here and not another bar? Is it the URL? I would suggest that it is that mere whisper of content that keeps us coming back. Sure we can all be witty and wise, but this isn’t a forum for fans of West Side Story. It is, supposedly, a (rock) climbing site. And that means through the haze of PTFTW’s, can-I-get-me-a-banz, and other general foolishness and mayhem, climbing content must exist. Or we will all facebook the music and dance away. And, to the ghost in the machine, Aric, who started this, it is his content. Right, wrong, or indefensible, that is gone and missed. There must be content. Content isn’t “Am I gonna die on this anchor?” nor “I climbed 5.14159 yester-spray”. New ideas are content. And there the criticism of RC.n3rd sticks. There hasn’t been a basic site look and feel refresh since blue went away. The articles (sans new product shows) have been sparse. And so we are left to rink, rank, runk with a D. Until a fight breaks out and we have something to talk about. The reason this is a post-whore fest is that there isn’t anything else to talk about. And, let’s all be honest here, people will only add value when they have something to gain. (Gaaaaack – corporate speak – it hurtzz.) Since we have run out of stars to give, and the people with content to give know what they are worth; we have nothing left. So no one gives. So we go back to the bar to rink. With a D. (And you don’t want to play Mexican’s against me) (If you get that reference I’m sorry for your liver).
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subantz
Aug 22, 2010, 1:52 AM
Post #209 of 217
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Registered: Dec 7, 2007
Posts: 1247
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Wow mad respect bro How much pot u been smokin. Anyh how this was a good read and should be a descusion of its own Start a new thread and hopefully it stays of point
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qwert
Aug 22, 2010, 8:14 AM
Post #210 of 217
(2690 views)
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Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 2394
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: iamthewallress wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: As far as the bar analogy goes, I like it. When I go to the bar, we talk about climbing. There is certainly humor and childish hijinks involved, but centers around our daily sends. Josh What is the penalty for straying from the topic of climbing when you go to the bar? And so we return back to the crux. What bar is this? Is it a biker (pedal or motor), kayaker, gay, or meat market? In theory it is a climber’s bar. Which means that climbers (and people who troll climbers) come here. But why here and not another bar? Is it the URL? I would suggest that it is that mere whisper of content that keeps us coming back. Sure we can all be witty and wise, but this isn’t a forum for fans of West Side Story. It is, supposedly, a (rock) climbing site. And that means through the haze of PTFTW’s, can-I-get-me-a-banz, and other general foolishness and mayhem, climbing content must exist. Or we will all facebook the music and dance away. And, to the ghost in the machine, Aric, who started this, it is his content. Right, wrong, or indefensible, that is gone and missed. There must be content. Content isn’t “Am I gonna die on this anchor?” nor “I climbed 5.14159 yester-spray”. New ideas are content. And there the criticism of RC.n3rd sticks. There hasn’t been a basic site look and feel refresh since blue went away. The articles (sans new product shows) have been sparse. And so we are left to rink, rank, runk with a D. Until a fight breaks out and we have something to talk about. The reason this is a post-whore fest is that there isn’t anything else to talk about. And, let’s all be honest here, people will only add value when they have something to gain. (Gaaaaack – corporate speak – it hurtzz.) Since we have run out of stars to give, and the people with content to give know what they are worth; we have nothing left. So no one gives. So we go back to the bar to rink. With a D. (And you don’t want to play Mexican’s against me) (If you get that reference I’m sorry for your liver). +1 (mostly) I do not totally agree with what is content and what not. Sure, pure spray is annoying, but generally talking about what you have climbed, and if it was good and so on is expected content on a climbing site. The same applies for anchor threads. The problem is that it sometimes seeems like this is the only content, and that it often is either really just annoying spray, and totally insane anchor questions, that should never have been asked, if one starts th sport right. And yes, then it becomes noise. qwert
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 24, 2010, 12:23 PM
Post #211 of 217
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
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subantz wrote: Wow mad respect bro How much pot u been smokin. Anyh how this was a good read and should be a descusion of its own Start a new thread and hopefully it stays of point The sad thing is that if I smoked and posted, I would be even more of a guy to keep hammering a point well after it was dead.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 24, 2010, 12:26 PM
Post #212 of 217
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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qwert wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: iamthewallress wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: As far as the bar analogy goes, I like it. When I go to the bar, we talk about climbing. There is certainly humor and childish hijinks involved, but centers around our daily sends. Josh What is the penalty for straying from the topic of climbing when you go to the bar? And so we return back to the crux. What bar is this? Is it a biker (pedal or motor), kayaker, gay, or meat market? In theory it is a climber’s bar. Which means that climbers (and people who troll climbers) come here. But why here and not another bar? Is it the URL? I would suggest that it is that mere whisper of content that keeps us coming back. Sure we can all be witty and wise, but this isn’t a forum for fans of West Side Story. It is, supposedly, a (rock) climbing site. And that means through the haze of PTFTW’s, can-I-get-me-a-banz, and other general foolishness and mayhem, climbing content must exist. Or we will all facebook the music and dance away. And, to the ghost in the machine, Aric, who started this, it is his content. Right, wrong, or indefensible, that is gone and missed. There must be content. Content isn’t “Am I gonna die on this anchor?” nor “I climbed 5.14159 yester-spray”. New ideas are content. And there the criticism of RC.n3rd sticks. There hasn’t been a basic site look and feel refresh since blue went away. The articles (sans new product shows) have been sparse. And so we are left to rink, rank, runk with a D. Until a fight breaks out and we have something to talk about. The reason this is a post-whore fest is that there isn’t anything else to talk about. And, let’s all be honest here, people will only add value when they have something to gain. (Gaaaaack – corporate speak – it hurtzz.) Since we have run out of stars to give, and the people with content to give know what they are worth; we have nothing left. So no one gives. So we go back to the bar to rink. With a D. (And you don’t want to play Mexican’s against me) (If you get that reference I’m sorry for your liver). +1 (mostly) I do not totally agree with what is content and what not. Sure, pure spray is annoying, but generally talking about what you have climbed, and if it was good and so on is expected content on a climbing site. The same applies for anchor threads. The problem is that it sometimes seeems like this is the only content, and that it often is either really just annoying spray, and totally insane anchor questions, that should never have been asked, if one starts th sport right. And yes, then it becomes noise. qwert I agree. There is a fine line between spray and a good story, unfortuantely most people, including me, can not pull that off. Also the anchor questions can generate content, but the question itself is almost always not much more than the coffee lady sayin "Anchors - is one point OK? Discuss..."
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Gmburns2000
Aug 24, 2010, 1:13 PM
Post #213 of 217
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
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blueeyedclimber wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: new sig? Nope. I tried to add this but it was too long. I didn't want to get rid of my other 2. Fair game for anyone else. Josh your doing it wrong. (pssst...pm me if you want to know the secret to success)
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 24, 2010, 11:34 PM
Post #214 of 217
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
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Gmburns2000 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: new sig? Nope. I tried to add this but it was too long. I didn't want to get rid of my other 2. Fair game for anyone else. Josh your doing it wrong. (pssst...pm me if you want to know the secret to success) Secret of success for what? Going above the limit for text in a sig line? Btw, QUIET DOWN, EVERYONE!
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climbingtrash
Aug 25, 2010, 12:11 AM
Post #215 of 217
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Registered: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 5114
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: new sig? Nope. I tried to add this but it was too long. I didn't want to get rid of my other 2. Fair game for anyone else. Josh your doing it wrong. (pssst...pm me if you want to know the secret to success) Secret of success for what? Going above the limit for text in a sig line? Btw, QUIET DOWN, EVERYONE! Okay. Remind me...what is Signal and what in Noise?
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t2stone
Aug 25, 2010, 1:05 AM
Post #216 of 217
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Registered: Sep 8, 2007
Posts: 206
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OMG all I can hear is..................Static! and jt5whtevr
(This post was edited by t2stone on Aug 25, 2010, 1:09 AM)
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yanqui
Aug 25, 2010, 1:48 AM
Post #217 of 217
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Registered: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 1559
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signal: noise:
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