One of my climbing partners scared the shit out of me last week. He was between the first and 2nd bolt just out of reach of the 2nd bolt and told me he was about to fall and asked if he was hitting the deck.

He indeed was so I told him he HAD to hit that 2nd bolt. Everything turned out fine as he was able to clip the 2nd bolt and support his weight on the draw until he clipped in.

My question is this, what can I do to help if he does fall in this situation?

I got as close to the wall as possible, ready to move backwards and drop down to take as much slack out as possible. My only worry is with rope stretch he could still possible deck.

The only alternative I can think of would be to use both hands to spot the climber as you would before belay is on. This of course wouldn't be wise without a gri-gri as the rope would not do anything to slow his fall

with the Cinch you can hold the device in a specific position where the climber can pull his own slack out thus eliminating any extra slack in the system

Don't get into this habit. Its fine if you are paying close attention and are ready to break, but if you are distracted by something shiny and are in fact holding the device open when the climber falls, it will feed ALOT through the device before it locks up. Had this happen once (damn Brazilians!) and it fed a good 10' before it caught. Luckily the climber was way off the deck so had plenty of room to fall, but never again. Better to just hold it like you are supposed to (forefinger and thumb on the cylinder, rest of hand on the rope) and feed slack diligently.

by pointing the cinch at the wall you are in essence holding it open. Believe me I know the technique, I thought it was really cool when I found it too. Its not. its lazy and asking for shit to hit the fan.

Did you have severe burns on your hand?

I'm not sure what burns have to do with proper belaying. I've had burns all the way across my knuckles while using an atc. I caught the fall just fine, but the little rope that did "slip" through caused the tail end of the rope to whip across my knuckles, maybe 6"-12" at the most. damn that hurt!!!!!
I would have to disagree with Navy's first post to this thread. Running back doesn't work on a low fall. a step back would be all you could get. As I said before; a simultaneous armful of slack, a step back and a drop to the ground are all you will have time for.
Running back might work on some runnout slab climb where the climber is already 50-75 feet off the deck, looking at a 30-40 foot fall. even then, I would question how far back you could actually get.

I'm not sure what burns have to do with proper belaying. I've had burns all the way across my knuckles while using an atc. I caught the fall just fine, but the little rope that did "slip" through caused the tail end of the rope to whip across my knuckles, maybe 6"-12" at the most. damn that hurt!!!!!
I would have to disagree with Navy's first post to this thread. Running back doesn't work on a low fall. a step back would be all you could get. As I said before; a simultaneous armful of slack, a step back and a drop to the ground are all you will have time for.
Running back might work on some runnout slab climb where the climber is already 50-75 feet off the deck, looking at a 30-40 foot fall. even then, I would question how far back you could actually get.

no, no burns. I wasnt holding it properly and I doubt you are either when you get it to 'self feed'. Its just lazy, I'd have some harsh words if I caught my belayer doing it when I'm on the sharp end.

In three separate occasions I have preformed a running belay because the climber fell while clipping either the second or third bolt. In all cases a running belay was the only thing that kept the climber off the ground. In the most recent case the climber was clipping the third bolt when he slipped off with a hand full of rope out.

I was using my Trango Cinch to belay and I was standing directly under him less than two feet away from the rock. I yanked in a full armful of slack and ran backwards. I was able to get back about eight feet, or about 2.5 steps, from my original position before he hit the end of the rope. He ended up stopping with his feet on the ground. Had you been right and I only had a chance to take one step backwards, he would have hit the ground. However I noticed he was climbing fairly sloppy up to the third bolt and I was ready to run backwards thus I was able to react almost as soon as he came off the rock.

In three separate occasions I have preformed a running belay because the climber fell while clipping either the second or third bolt. In all cases a running belay was the only thing that kept the climber off the ground. In the most recent case the climber was clipping the third bolt when he slipped off with a hand full of rope out.

I was using my Trango Cinch to belay and I was standing directly under him less than two feet away from the rock. I yanked in a full armful of slack and ran backwards. I was able to get back about eight feet, or about 2.5 steps, from my original position before he hit the end of the rope. He ended up stopping with his feet on the ground. Had you been right and I only had a chance to take one step backwards, he would have hit the ground. However I noticed he was climbing fairly sloppy up to the third bolt and I was ready to run backwards thus I was able to react almost as soon as he came off the rock.

If you are paying attention and you are planning to conduct a running belay, you can get a lot more than one step backwards. However if your just sitting there slacking off, ya don’t expect to get far. Just another reason why being a competent belayer involves more than just holding the rope. But then again I always assume the climber is going to fall while clipping the first few bolts and thus my reaction time is significantly smaller then someone who wasn’t expecting it. But in the end it depends on your reaction time, your ability to run backwards, and how high the second or first bolt actually is. In some areas the first bolt is as high as the third in others. But the point is if you are expecting a fall and you are paying attention, you can drastically cut down your reaction time which can easily make the difference between decking and not.

for sure, this is good advice. definitely analyze the route before starting up.

While this is indeed good advice, you're average sport climber couldn't route find or even remotely determine what the route may hold in store for them.

That is very impressive.

Since your climber falls at 9.8 m/s^2, it took him or her no more than half a second to hit the ground. Assuming you have the reflexes of a cat on meth, you still managed to run 2m backwards while hauling in rope more quickly than Usain Bolt.

There is a reason that people like Jay (jt512) have strong, definitive opinions: they've been climbing for many years. Not only has this given them considerable practical experience, but it teaches quite a bit about basic physics.

It took you 2 months to generate your first post and this is what you come up with. In case Jake wasn't clear, DO NOT lead on a static rope!

In three separate occasions I have preformed a running belay because the climber fell while clipping either the second or third bolt. In all cases a running belay was the only thing that kept the climber off the ground. In the most recent case the climber was clipping the third bolt when he slipped off with a hand full of rope out.

I was using my Trango Cinch to belay and I was standing directly under him less than two feet away from the rock. I yanked in a full armful of slack and ran backwards. I was able to get back about eight feet, or about 2.5 steps, from my original position before he hit the end of the rope. He ended up stopping with his feet on the ground. Had you been right and I only had a chance to take one step backwards, he would have hit the ground. However I noticed he was climbing fairly sloppy up to the third bolt and I was ready to run backwards thus I was able to react almost as soon as he came off the rock.

If you are paying attention and you are planning to conduct a running belay, you can get a lot more than one step backwards. However if your just sitting there slacking off, ya don’t expect to get far. Just another reason why being a competent belayer involves more than just holding the rope. But then again I always assume the climber is going to fall while clipping the first few bolts and thus my reaction time is significantly smaller then someone who wasn’t expecting it. But in the end it depends on your reaction time, your ability to run backwards, and how high the second or first bolt actually is. In some areas the first bolt is as high as the third in others. But the point is if you are expecting a fall and you are paying attention, you can drastically cut down your reaction time which can easily make the difference between decking and not.

One of my climbing partners scared the shit out of me last week. He was between the first and 2nd bolt just out of reach of the 2nd bolt and told me he was about to fall and asked if he was hitting the deck.

He indeed was so I told him he HAD to hit that 2nd bolt. Everything turned out fine as he was able to clip the 2nd bolt and support his weight on the draw until he clipped in.

My question is this, what can I do to help if he does fall in this situation?

I got as close to the wall as possible, ready to move backwards and drop down to take as much slack out as possible. My only worry is with rope stretch he could still possible deck.

The only alternative I can think of would be to use both hands to spot the climber as you would before belay is on. This of course wouldn't be wise without a gri-gri as the rope would not do anything to slow his fall

If the guy had time to ask you if he was gonna deck then:

1, he didn't look at the route and protection properly or else he would have known that a fall from there would be a ground fall

and 2, he could have just done the move instead of wasting energy asking the belayer questions.

wooo i'm above average! I actually think that boulderers and more experienced sport climbers might look at routes a lot more closely than trad climbers since they are used to working out sequences and cruxes on the ground before setting off.

Well, in over 20 years of climbing I have never taken someone off belay in order to spot them, I have caught many falls between the first and second bolts, and I have never dropped anyone.


First of all, that was presumably in the gym, where a fall from the second bolt is probably less than a fall from the top of the bouldering cave. Outdoors, on the other hand, there normally isn't a mat, the ground is often uneven, and the second bolt will usually be too high to safely jump down from.

Jay

One point that hasn't been made: The effectiveness of the belayer stepping away from the wall depends on the slope of the ground. If the ground slopes up from the wall, then running back can actually be counter-productive; if the ground is level, then running back will shorten the fall at least a little. If the ground slopes down away from the wall, then you should definitely run back.

One other point: It is important for the belayer to constantly be asking him or herself, "What would I do if my partner fell right now?" Answers fall broadly into three categories: just lock off; dynamically belay (which actually lengthens the fall); and shorten the fall. When to opt for either of the first two choices is outside the scope of this thread. When you deem the third choice (shortening the fall) is necessary (ie, when you need to prevent a ground fall), you have to decide whether you will run back or not. The decision depends, as I mention above, on the slope of the terrain, as well as whether you have an obstacle-free path available. So, if you determine that you should run back if your partner falls, then you have to do two things ahead of time: determine what path you are going to take; and, two, ensure that that path is obstacle free. This means getting your shoes, pack, dogs, children, etc. out of the way.

Notwithstanding my earlier post, there are situations where your partner will be far enough above his last pro where you will have time to take several steps away from the wall, and you should be prepared for these situations.

Jay

In the most recent case the climber was clipping the third bolt when he slipped off with a hand full of rope out.