However, if you want to fly to Aus and brawl, we can film it and make a true spectacle?

By "muscle bound" I meant buff guys who work out a lot and lift weights.

How is it not strength training? Seriously curious. Personally, it makes my biceps, forarms, calves, hands and back stronger...

The truth or falsehood of all of man’s conclusions, inferences, thought and knowledge rests on the truth or falsehood of his definitions.

-Ayn Rand

"Strength training" is a dedicated program of targeted, progressive, resistive exercise. It is not the performance of any activity which might (or might not) get you stronger. Digging ditches, splitting firewood, and dancing in a nightclub are all examples of activities which might increase your strength, but they would not fall under any accepted definition of strength training. Likewise rock climbing.

A definition is true. Otherwise, it is not a definition.

Rock climbing is resistive exercise, and could be dedicated, targeted, and progressive, so it is not clear to me why rock climbing would necessarily not be strength training. Or is the catch here "dedicated"?

Strength training differs from bodybuilding, weightlifting, powerlifting, and strongman, which are sports rather than forms of exercise, although training for them is inherently interconnected with strength training, as it is for shotput, discus, and Highland games. Many other sports use strength training as part of their training regimen, notably football, rugby, lacrosse, basketball, hockey, and track and field.

So, like F=ma.

Well, unless "a" takes you close to the speed of light, at which time the definition is no longer true.

Karmi, I think our problem is caused by poor definitions.

-Ayn Rand

"Muscle bound" is a somewhat archaic term once used to describe athletes who (theoretically) had muscles which became so hypertrophied as to limit range of motion. The athlete is literally "bound", or tied up, by his muscle mass. I have personally seen that term used mostly by old-school baseball coaches who didn't want the star hitter weight training, because it would limit the freedom of his swing. Subsequent great hitters like Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds would falsify this argument. You can be a great hitter and be muscular. You can be a great climber and be muscular, but you would not want to have a body-builder kind of build.

"Strength training" is a dedicated program of targeted, progressive, resistive exercise. It is not the performance of any activity which might (or might not) get you stronger. Digging ditches, splitting firewood, and dancing in a nightclub are all examples of activities which might increase your strength, but they would not fall under any accepted definition of strength training. Likewise rock climbing.

I'd rather not get into a situation of providing links to dictionary definitons of these terms, just to "prove" I'm right. You can look them up yourself if you want.

Karmi, I'm not sure why these discussons always break down the same way.

No one is saying generalized weight training is better than climbing specific training. Of course specific training will more directly impact your climbing. Both research and personal experience support that.

The question is, does strength training have any use at all for climbing? While there is not direct research, there is related research supporting decreased injuries in strength-trained athletes in other sports. So, based upon that, and my clinical experience rehabilitating injuries, My opinion is that strength training is useful for climbing, for injury avoidance.

Avoiding injuries allows you to climb more, which allows you to improve your climbing.

Haha...I know why...too many people are wound too tight on this forum. What exercises do you do specifically for injury avoidance? Did they come from your Dr.?

Karmi, I think our problem is caused by poor definitions.

-Ayn Rand
. . .
I'd rather not get into a situation of providing links to dictionary definitons of these terms, just to "prove" I'm right. You can look them up yourself if you want.

The other way around, more likely.

Jay

I was wondering why you were getting so anal. You've been treating yr post-op knee by loading up on meds and liquor while reading Ayn Rand.

At least the meds and liquor will have some therapeutic value.

Btw, karmi's "pushers" and "pullers" is a perfectly usable vernacular translation for "extensors" and "flexors." And her "musclebound guy" versus "tiny girl" anecdote comes close to a universal: You can even find it in training manuals from Loughman to Goddard.

You just need better liquor and less BDSM literature.

Muscle may weigh more than fat per pound,

Oh really! Is a pound of feathers really lighter than a pound of steel? Actually the density of fat and muscle is much closer than many people think--pretty much a wash there.

Otherwise your comments are spot on. The over-bulking-from-lifting myth will never die in the climbing world. Playing whack-a-mole with ignorance is a losing game.

Oh really! Is a pound of feathers really lighter than a pound of steel? Actually the density of fat and muscle is much closer than many people think--pretty much a wash there.

Oh really! Is a pound of feathers really lighter than a pound of steel? Actually the density of fat and muscle is much closer than many people think--pretty much a wash there.

Otherwise your comments are spot on. The over-bulking-from-lifting myth will never die in the climbing world. Playing whack-a-mole with ignorance is a losing game.

The other way around, more likely.

Jay

I was wondering why you were getting so anal. You've been treating yr post-op knee by loading up on meds and liquor while reading Ayn Rand.

At least the meds and liquor will have some therapeutic value.

Btw, karmi's "pushers" and "pullers" is a perfectly usable vernacular translation for "extensors" and "flexors." And her "musclebound guy" versus "tiny girl" anecdote comes close to a universal: You can even find it in training manuals from Loughman to Goddard.

You just need better liquor and less BDSM literature.

Haha...I know why...too many people are wound too tight on this forum.
What exercises do you do specifically for injury avoidance? Did they come from your Dr.? Or personal research? Thanks.

Karmi, I treat doctors, among other patients.

For me to give you the exercises I do to avoid injury might not make much sense, but I do lots of rotator cuff, back, a little chest, legs, arms, core, and low-impact cardio to protect my knees.

I posted some good rotator cuff exercises well back on this thread, while the subject was still vaguely relevant to the OP.

Karmi, I'm not sure why these discussons always break down the same way.

No one is saying generalized weight training is better than climbing specific training. Of course specific training will more directly impact your climbing. Both research and personal experience support that.

The question is, does strength training have any use at all for climbing? While there is not direct research, there is related research supporting decreased injuries in strength-trained athletes in other sports. So, based upon that, and my clinical experience rehabilitating injuries, My opinion is that strength training is useful for climbing, for injury avoidance.

Avoiding injuries allows you to climb more, which allows you to improve your climbing.

So if I were you and want to get better at climbing, I would take a hard look at your weaknesses (might be best to have someone else point them out to you, or even pay a climbing trainer because if you've spent money on it maybe you'll listen to them). If your weakness isn't large muscle groups, then I would greatly scale back the lifting, and use that time for climbing. If you feel it is necessary keep some shoulder exercises and wrist rotation exercises in for injury prevention. I often do some ab exercises after my climbing workout.

Disclaimer: This advice is written from a sport / trad / bouldering standpoint. If you want to climb everest or haul pigs for Tommy on the side of El Cap then what your doing is probably great. Also lifting / running / swimming / whatever is going to be better for you on the weeks you can't climb then sitting on the couch drinking beers.

Good luck and have fun!

These are pretty good. They also give a sense of exercise progression. The only caveat is to use caution especially with the "abduction" exercise. If it causes pain, back off that one.

http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/...or/rotatstrength.php