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funktimonious
Dec 24, 2002, 7:38 AM
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I don't want to piss all you trad climbers off, but how is it exciting? All the pictures, vids. and articles I have seen have had trad. climbers climbing only cracks. Is that all you can climb with trad.? And how is that fun at all. I know I haven't done cracks on trad -- only TR --, but it's just a crack! It seems so predictable and bland. I'm really interested in hearing the appeal that crack climbing has.
--Peace.
[ This Message was edited by: funktimonious on 2002-12-23 23:38 ]
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brutusofwyde
Dec 24, 2002, 10:57 AM
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Never met a bland offwidth yet.
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powers
Dec 24, 2002, 11:16 AM
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Hey funk i have been climbing trad and sport for a long time. maybe when you have placed some gear on a hard trad route you might understand.There are trad protected face climbs also.
[ This Message was edited by: powers on 2002-12-24 03:20 ]
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rrrADAM
Dec 24, 2002, 12:33 PM
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Go to Tuolumne and climb some R/X Rated Routes... They get that rating because of the face/slab runouts.
Trad is a chess game of sorts... Not only do you have to do the technical moves to free climb it, but you need to look for opportunities to place pro, set it quickly and efficiently, and have the head to climb far above it if required.
Don't get me wrong... I Sport climb also, but I get the most out of Trad climing, as every nerve is aware, especially 600' up on hard Grade III's. But I have taken .12 Sporties out to J-Tree, let them use my rack, and watched them pee themselves on a .9, and bail to a downclimb because they didn't trust the gear enough to even lower off.
I guess you wouldn't know what I am talking about, since you wrote "All the pictures, vids. and articles I have seen...". Maybe you just need to try it. Come out to J-Tree, I'll let you borrow my rack.
BTW... Look at some "pics or vids" of The Gunks... Not crack climbing.
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tradguy
Dec 24, 2002, 12:59 PM
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Wow - I thought maybe he was just joking, or maybe it was a troll or something, but I think he's actually serious!
Cracks are like snowflakes - no two are exactly the same. Different widths, flares, textures, variances, etc make each crack/trad climb unique. Plus, you can climb the same trad route multiple times and make it feel unique each time by choosing different gear placements. If you want to get excited, though, get on some sick hard crack route where removing one of your hands from the crack for more than 3 seconds makes you feel like you're going to peel. Then start worrying about trying to place gear without falling, and once you've managed to place a piece, you figure out that you stuck it right in the ideal spot for your next jam. Oops.
If anything, trad is more multi-dimensional that any other form of rock climbing, since you've got the climbing to think about, but also the protection.
[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-12-24 05:01 ]
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danl
Dec 24, 2002, 2:30 PM
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You want interesting trad?
Come to the gunks. The cracks run the wrong way the face moves are technical the roofs are daunting and powerful. And the gear..well it ranges from bomber cams in horizontals to opposed RPs in horizontals resting on crystals
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stewbabby
Dec 24, 2002, 2:35 PM
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Trad line. Not a crack. Here in the south we have several different types of rock with thousands of formations. You have sandstone with hundreds of small horizontal and vertical cracks that will take gear. You also have faces with chicken heads to sling and water grooves that will take pro. We also have NC granite with its notorious runouts and deceiving eyebrows. I would challenge you to make a trip down this way and I would be happy to put you on a NON crack trad route and I would love to see how dull you think it is.
stewart
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captainprozac
Dec 24, 2002, 2:42 PM
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Free your ass and your mind will follow. Trad is the essence of rock climbing. It's anything but one dimensional.
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jen_c
Dec 24, 2002, 3:31 PM
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Stewart,
Awesome pic!!!
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stewbabby
Dec 24, 2002, 3:44 PM
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Thanks, but its not mine. Its one of Crowders. He has a pretty good site about climbing in the south. www.coolclimbing.com Thats probably one of my favorite routes at SR. From the ground you would never know that it is a trad route.
stewart
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flamer
Dec 24, 2002, 7:03 PM
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Try climbing in Eldo...talk about varied...
josh
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duskerhu
Dec 24, 2002, 8:43 PM
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Hey funkti, I got a good 5.7 trad crack/face for you to practice/learn on up here at Barn Bluff (our local "Sport Crag")... I climbed it about 20 times this season (top-rope and gear leads) and no 2 climbs were alike.
Its called Jam & Jelly and is a limestone crack of about 60 feet. The lower half is not quite verticle but there is not much face to use with the crack. You pretty much have to have one foot and one hand jamming, one foot stemming on the face (far out to the right and its not a dihedral there) and let go with your left hand to place your first piece, which by the way, the only real place to put the piece is where you'd put your left hand for the next jam.
Once you get to the sloping ledge about half-way up, you can take a good rest but its purely vertical or past from there on... This section is in a dihedral but the face on both sides is very thin and there aren't very good jams to be had. A lot of it is just levering yourself into the corner with your feet on 1/8 or 1/4 inch nubs off to the side (or sticking them sideways into the crack which makes it harder to hang on with one hand free to place gear). On top of that, the placements are much tougher in this section and if you start fumbling with a cam (they don't set here very well) or a big hex, you pump out pretty quick.
Yeah, it's only rated 5.7, but if you're not a crack climber, your first run up it will make it seem like a .9 or .9+.
"One dimentional"??? I don't think so...
duskerhu
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crazygrl
Dec 24, 2002, 8:57 PM
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I totally agree with rrradam, it is very much like a chess match... a lot is going on in your head when you are trad climbing
Noel
[ This Message was edited by: crazygrl on 2002-12-24 12:58 ]
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rrrADAM
Dec 24, 2002, 8:59 PM
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Nice pic brutha.
Here's another one from down South, this one is from Arkansas. No Crack, nice roof.
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crazygrl
Dec 24, 2002, 9:04 PM
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AWESOME PIC!!
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funktimonious
Dec 24, 2002, 9:37 PM
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I appreciate you guys not ripping my head off. I have no doubt that it's a million times scarier than sport, since you're falls are stopped by gear that YOU place. I wasn't aware of all the non-crack climbing available in the south either. However, it seems that fear is one of the largest components of trad. I get scared on lead, but I find the enjoyment in the holds and moving between them. Do you do trad. for the climbing, or the test of guts that you get from the fear?
--Peace.
[ This Message was edited by: funktimonious on 2002-12-24 20:15 ]
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duskerhu
Dec 24, 2002, 9:56 PM
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Both really, but its also fun to tinker and play with the gear itself. Also, some nuts you'll set and just know you could hang an elephant off of... That's what keeps you going, knowing you have a totally bomber piece in, or the hope and confidence that you'll find one soon.
duskerhu
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wyoclimber
Dec 24, 2002, 10:06 PM
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I enjoy both trad and sport, for different reasons. I agree with the reasons above, and would like to add a couple more that havent been mentioned yet. The only way to the top of the alpine peaks i yearn for is to place your own gear. there is also something very satisfying about meeting the rock on its terms, placing pro and taking it back out, leaving everything, except for yourself, unchanged.
oh ok, it's also fun to scare myself senseless!
b
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uncle_big_green
Dec 24, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Hell yea, Stew. I believe that is a picture of Steggo on Gravy Train at Sandrock, in that foreign country, Alabama. Woody put me on that climb a several summers ago, and of course down-rated it a little. Its cool.
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flying_dutchman
Dec 24, 2002, 11:13 PM
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ya whatever, but trad is still one more dimension then sport climbing. Anyhow, i've climbed face and slab trad pitches. The word used is 'runout'
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lmorton
Dec 24, 2002, 11:27 PM
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Trad:
1) Trad will take you where sport will never go.
2) No 2 cracks are the same.
3) Most trad lines incorporate both face and crack moves.
4) There are an infinite number of trad gear placements, and vertical cracks are only the tip of the iceberg.
5) Because you're placing your own pro, trad takes more patience and nerves.
6) all of the above and plenty more.
in essence, take sport, add a heck of a lot, and you're beginning to get the picture. Far from one dimensional.
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moabbeth
Dec 24, 2002, 11:53 PM
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Oh funk, we gotta get you out on Double Cross in Josh...you have some of the best granite crack climbing outside our front door here. Trad is a CHALLENGE unlike sport where you're climbing on bolts someone else places or top roping, where you're not worrying about a single thing but your next foot or hand hold. Trad requires strength, concentration, confidence in what YOU place cause your pro placement is what's gonna save or kill ya if you fall. I learned on sport initially but trad is WAY more fun in my opinion. Requires a lot more brains and emotional control than sport or TR.
Also, don't diss cracks to me, Indian Creek is one of the best climbing experiences a climber could have. So until you go out and climb some amazing sandstone cracks, don't diss what you don't know. We live in the same town, if you open up your mind I might haul you out to Moab with me in March to show you that crack climbing on trad is the BEST!
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crack_head
Dec 25, 2002, 2:27 AM
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trad is in my view the best style of climbing. the best part is you can just go... you are not limited to only bolted lines. if you see a line that looks pretty cool you can just climb it, not dreaming about someone someday bloting it so you can climb it. and trad is not limited to cracks, which by the way kick ass.
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epic_ed
Dec 25, 2002, 3:53 AM
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Jeez, Funk. Sometimes it seems like you really are just asking for a kick in the "Y".
To me trad is about the freedom to climb where ever you want. I'm not limited to areas that have been "developed." Find a rock, pick a line, and have at it. I'm only limited by my abilities and my courage (or lack there of). We started trad climbing because there's so many places to climb, but so few that are bolted (in AZ, anyway...which is generally a good thing). Eventually, we pieced enough gear together to call it a "rack" and a whole new world opened up to us.
And I'm with Brutus...no such thing as a bland offwidth
Ed
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stewbabby
Dec 26, 2002, 2:37 AM
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UBG, you are exactly right. I guess Kolorado hasnt made you forget about the south completely. It is a good line, and you are also right about the rating. the book says 5.10a but its more like easy 9 to me.
stewart
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