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redrattie
Feb 22, 2011, 1:11 AM
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How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality.
Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 22, 2011, 1:13 AM
Post #52 of 137
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redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are.
I've met plenty of "senior climbers" who didn't know their ass from a clove hitch.
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kachoong
Feb 22, 2011, 2:12 AM
Post #53 of 137
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redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are.
You have 9985 posts to go.
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camhead
Feb 22, 2011, 2:18 AM
Post #54 of 137
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in a perfect world, there would be some sort of algorithm that took into account postcount in non-community threads, highly ranked posts, years climbing, climbing ability on a diversity of styles, and positive referrals from partners. heh, yeah right.
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redrattie
Feb 22, 2011, 2:30 AM
Post #55 of 137
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are. I've met plenty of "senior climbers" who didn't know their ass from a clove hitch.
On other sites of which I am a member, the "senior" designation is a sign of respect. As a n00b, I don't know what the standard should be. What do you suggest?
How can I tell at a glance who is an expert and who is a poser when the star system is used to one star someone for being a "jerk". As an adult I can decide for myself if someone's a jerk, and I really don't care who likes who. How do I separate the good from the bad?
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redrattie
Feb 22, 2011, 4:35 AM
Post #56 of 137
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kachoong wrote: redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are. You have 9985 posts to go.
So I don't need to know anything? I just need to post a lot? I post really really well. I have over 14,000 posts on other sites, guess that makes me an expert at something 
Edit... please someone one star me so that no one takes this post seriously, hurry someone might be offended, maybe I should one star myself. Gee I really am enjoying being a n00b again, feel sorry for all those that have a reputation to maintain, hah, I get to act like a complete idiot and not worry about anyone finding out because I'm a n00b and no one cares what I think. shhhhh don't tell anyone I'm here...
(This post was edited by redrattie on Feb 22, 2011, 5:09 AM)
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spikeddem
Feb 22, 2011, 5:46 AM
Post #57 of 137
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redrattie wrote: How do I separate the good from the bad?
Well, if someone has more than 500 posts, their advice is probably decent. To further it down, decent grammar and mechanics also suggest that the advice was at least okay. Rarely do we see posts that have excessive amounts of ellipses and also contain good advice. Lots of ellipses generally suggest that these people are just randomly searching their brains for bits and piece of information between thoughts.
Along the lines of "excess," excessive bolding--especially of random blocks of text--suggest you may be reading a page from the book of Enigma. If you see this, you may want to turn off your monitor, douse the computer in gasoline, and light it on fire.
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jomagam
Feb 22, 2011, 6:34 AM
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spikeddem wrote: Well, if someone has more than 500 posts, their advice is probably decent. To further it down, decent grammar and mechanics also suggest that the advice was at least okay. Rarely do we see posts that have excessive amounts of ellipses and also contain good advice. Lots of ellipses generally suggest that these people are just randomly searching their brains for bits and piece of information between thoughts. Along the lines of "excess," excessive bolding--especially of random blocks of text--suggest you may be reading a page from the book of Enigma. If you see this, you may want to turn off your monitor, douse the computer in gasoline, and light it on fire.
Enigma has way over 500 posts, so you pretty much killed your original point.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Feb 22, 2011, 2:40 PM
Post #59 of 137
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redrattie wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are. I've met plenty of "senior climbers" who didn't know their ass from a clove hitch. On other sites of which I am a member, the "senior" designation is a sign of respect. As a n00b, I don't know what the standard should be. What do you suggest? How can I tell at a glance who is an expert and who is a poser when the star system is used to one star someone for being a "jerk". As an adult I can decide for myself if someone's a jerk, and I really don't care who likes who. How do I separate the good from the bad?
One of the reasons I personally don't like the star system is that it attempts to create a shortcut where none should exist. I feel that the most important thing to develop is your judgement. It is important to judge your belayer, your gear, your setup, the weather, your skills...
Trust no advice except your own. Judge all advice posts. It is OK to have a bias towards some users, but never let that process of judging stop.
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beetlebug
Feb 22, 2011, 3:14 PM
Post #60 of 137
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I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble.
Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc.
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jomagam
Feb 22, 2011, 3:53 PM
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beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc.
Not sure what you mean. What posts were removed ? I'm not a moderator, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
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camhead
Feb 22, 2011, 4:03 PM
Post #62 of 137
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jomagam wrote: beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc. Not sure what you mean. What posts were removed ? I'm not a moderator, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm assuming that it was when he made a pretty succinct argument that, if certain people stopped being [censored], they would not have to worry about getting their posts one-starred.
If that got moderated, facepalm.
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beetlebug
Feb 22, 2011, 4:07 PM
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Camhead pretty much summed it up. LeadZeppelin made a post to that effect right here in this very thread which had several on-topic replies and they're all now missing.
Oh, and my post wasn't directed at you; your's just happened to be at the bottom of the list.
(This post was edited by beetlebug on Feb 22, 2011, 4:09 PM)
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justroberto
Feb 22, 2011, 4:21 PM
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spikeddem wrote: redrattie wrote: How do I separate the good from the bad? Well, if someone has more than 500 posts, their advice is probably decent. To further it down, decent grammar and mechanics also suggest that the advice was at least okay. Rarely do we see posts that have excessive amounts of ellipses and also contain good advice. Lots of ellipses generally suggest that these people are just randomly searching their brains for bits and piece of information between thoughts. Along the lines of "excess," excessive bolding--especially of random blocks of text--suggest you may be reading a page from the book of Enigma. If you see this, you may want to turn off your monitor, douse the computer in gasoline, and light it on fire.
Or a page from PTPP, who probably contributed more useful info to this site than anyone else while egregiously bolding every other 3 words.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 22, 2011, 4:35 PM
Post #65 of 137
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redrattie wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: redrattie wrote: How about giving "senior member" status to those individuals who have ten or more years of verifiable climbing experience, and who have earned the respect of fellow members based upon knowledge and skill, not personality. Unlike the star system (ratings based upon???), a person would know at a glance who the real stars of this site are. I've met plenty of "senior climbers" who didn't know their ass from a clove hitch. On other sites of which I am a member, the "senior" designation is a sign of respect. As a n00b, I don't know what the standard should be. What do you suggest? How can I tell at a glance who is an expert and who is a poser when the star system is used to one star someone for being a "jerk". As an adult I can decide for myself if someone's a jerk, and I really don't care who likes who. How do I separate the good from the bad?
Perhaps you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. You're putting FAR TOO MUCH faith in information gathered on the internet.
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spikeddem
Feb 22, 2011, 4:51 PM
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jomagam wrote: spikeddem wrote: Well, if someone has more than 500 posts, their advice is probably decent. To further it down, decent grammar and mechanics also suggest that the advice was at least okay. Rarely do we see posts that have excessive amounts of ellipses and also contain good advice. Lots of ellipses generally suggest that these people are just randomly searching their brains for bits and piece of information between thoughts. Along the lines of "excess," excessive bolding--especially of random blocks of text--suggest you may be reading a page from the book of Enigma. If you see this, you may want to turn off your monitor, douse the computer in gasoline, and light it on fire. Enigma has way over 500 posts, so you pretty much killed your original point.
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blondgecko
Moderator
Feb 22, 2011, 8:40 PM
Post #67 of 137
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beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc.
In the other recent S&F thread, an agreement was made that we would work to reduce the number of personal attacks - in all directions. No, we're not going to slog back through the archives and clean things up, but from here on in it's time to tone it down.
Argue the point, not the person.
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beetlebug
Feb 22, 2011, 8:53 PM
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blondgecko wrote: beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc. , an agreement was made that we would work to reduce the number of personal attacks - in all directions. No, we're not going to slog back through the archives and clean things up, but from here on in it's time to tone it down. Argue the point, not the person.
The point was that the user in question gets 1-starred because he acts like a [censored]. This is not an attack, but rather a statement of fact and in fact is the point at the very center of the discussion.
Following from this, if this is indeed the new policy I trust a quick search won't turn up any other recent posts where one user called another something unpleasant? Hmmm? Because if it does, it doesn't put you all in a very good light.
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blondgecko
Moderator
Feb 22, 2011, 9:03 PM
Post #69 of 137
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beetlebug wrote: blondgecko wrote: beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc. , an agreement was made that we would work to reduce the number of personal attacks - in all directions. No, we're not going to slog back through the archives and clean things up, but from here on in it's time to tone it down. Argue the point, not the person. The point was that the user in question gets 1-starred because he acts like a [censored]. This is not an attack, but rather a statement of fact and in fact is the point at the very center of the discussion. Following from this, if this is indeed the new policy I trust a quick search won't turn up any other recent posts where one user called another something unpleasant? Hmmm? Because if it does, it doesn't put you all in a very good light.
That doesn't follow. The mods don't constantly monitor every thread - given that we're all volunteers with day jobs and lives that's pretty much impossible. There's a certain amount of reliance on the users to report problems. So, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you find something. If you do, I encourage you to try out the handy-dandy new "report this post" function.
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beetlebug
Feb 22, 2011, 9:15 PM
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It absolutely does follow. The post was not an attack, but rather an admonishment to either quit being a [censored] or quit whining about getting bad post ratings. It was no worse that what the user in question dishes out, even since the new policy was put on place.
As for others getting away with similar behavior, either you moderate everyone the same or you play favorites. At the moment you're doing the latter for someone well deserving of a bit of what he's sown.
BTW, I fully expect these to be hid ASAP.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2461257#2461257
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2461400#2461400
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2464750#2464750
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2463857#2463857
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edge
Feb 22, 2011, 9:22 PM
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blondgecko wrote: beetlebug wrote: blondgecko wrote: beetlebug wrote: I see... Habitually abusing other users is fine, but suggesting someone stop being a douchebag while making other quite valid remarks gets your post pulled. WTF. If this is where you're going to draw the line you're headed for trouble. Kindy reinstate that post (and those that followed), or go through and remove every other post where someone calls someone else an idiot, moron, Nancy, dick, scrot, etc. , an agreement was made that we would work to reduce the number of personal attacks - in all directions. No, we're not going to slog back through the archives and clean things up, but from here on in it's time to tone it down. Argue the point, not the person. The point was that the user in question gets 1-starred because he acts like a [censored]. This is not an attack, but rather a statement of fact and in fact is the point at the very center of the discussion. Following from this, if this is indeed the new policy I trust a quick search won't turn up any other recent posts where one user called another something unpleasant? Hmmm? Because if it does, it doesn't put you all in a very good light. That doesn't follow. The mods don't constantly monitor every thread - given that we're all volunteers with day jobs and lives that's pretty much impossible. There's a certain amount of reliance on the users to report problems. So, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you find something. If you do, I encourage you to try out the handy-dandy new "report this post" function.
Plus, the points in your post were hashed out ad nauseum in this thread http://www.rockclimbing.com/...d;page=unread#unread. Since then, the user in question has been posting valid comments in keeping with the TOS and adding valuable content in keeping with his expertise and experience. At this point there is no reason to pile on and beat a dead horse.
As for other cases, in moderating a climbing site there is a thin line between a personal attack and allowing users to converse in the style we are accustomed to; climbers can be a pretty rough and tumble crowd. As Blondgecko said, we can't possibly monitor every post, but we can keep an eye out for trends from particular users that push the limits, particularly with the new "Report this post" feature.
We need to make judgement calls on some of these, and prefer the users to self moderate if possible. You may not agree with all moderator actions, but we do try to be consistant in dealing with potentially offending posts.
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beetlebug
Feb 22, 2011, 9:34 PM
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Riddle me this then: in what way was LeadZeppelin's post a personal attack rather than allowing climbers converse in the 'rough and tumble' manner they're accustomed to? All he did was tell JT512 to stop being a douchebag. Much worse has and continues to happen here, so why is LeadZeppelin being singled out?
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 22, 2011, 10:02 PM
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I want my 5 star post back!
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