So I just finished reading the A & I thread that I come visit every month or two just to make sure I'm not listed and I read something that checked my shorts in a hitch.

Why do people say, "Walk-off is better than rap?" when rap is the one that kills you and walk is something you've done since you were 1 year old?

I know that military and law enforcement drill, drill and drill again for worst case scenario. I rap from anchors every time I climb and I accept the risks. I have established a sort of mental script that has watched over me well. I always tie the ends of the rope together for instance...

Anywho...

What's your take? Do the safest thing you can?

Practice the lethal thing so that you are ready for it when and if the time comes you *have* to use it?

NOTE: I'm not looking for a holy war on which method is better. Instead I'm wondering what approach you as an individual values more? I always have trained for worse case when I climb (Don't be pedantic here. I've not listed my whole rap routine and if I did I'm certainly not going to say it's fool-proof as frankly I write in the presence of many whom I'm not even worthy to belay much less argue fine points with.)

So if given the choice do you rappel (to stay in practice) or do you walk (because it's safer)?

How about increased wear on the rope from repeatedly rapping off instead of lowering off . . .

In general, I would prefer to walk off but I do most of my climbing in the Potrero Chico where there are NO walk-offs. Every pitch you climb must be rappelled.

Why do people say, "Walk-off is better than rap?" when rap is the one that kills you and walk is something you've done since you were 1 year old?

I know that military and law enforcement drill, drill and drill again for worst case scenario. I rap from anchors every time I climb and I accept the risks. I have established a sort of mental script that has watched over me well.

I always rap off because it is the most fun. Also I am lazy and rapping off means that I do not have to carry all my gear around everything to get to the walk off position. Does really not come into mind what part is "safer". If you ever get a rope stuck its not like you can walk back to the top to get it unstuck anyway. Usually we have multiple ropes when we go a place.

The situation in the Gunks shows that almost all climbers will choose convenience over a safer alternative. There has been almost a complete conversion, from almost everyone walking back from every climb to almost no one walking back from any climb.

This in the face of repeated accidents, many to experienced climbers, accidents that happen in spite of rappel safety techniques that were unknown in the walk-back days.

People say rappelling is risky, but it is clear from their choices that, in spite of considerable evidence to the contrary, they believe the risks are ones they can successfully avoid.

The situation in the Gunks shows that almost all climbers will choose convenience over a safer alternative. There has been almost a complete conversion, from almost everyone walking back from every climb to almost no one walking back from any climb.

Over simplification of the reasons for the reasons for the behavioral change.

Ignoring the concerns about cliff top erosion.

Ignoring the installation of anchors primarily (not exclusively) for descent routes.

The basic reason the majority rap off in the Gunks now-a-days is simple. Monkey see monkey do.

Considering your assertion that rapping is statistically more dangerous...

...what do YOU do the majority of the time. Is it different then what you did 30-40 years ago? Why/why not?

Really? That's hard to believe. Certainly there are areas in the Trapps where I'm sure that's so...

...but even in the Nears? I pretty much always walk off if I'm doing something within the first 80 routes in the Nears.

Convenience is one of the best parts of a rap for sure. Just not having to carry shoes for a descent is huge! If you're talking about 3 pitches or less, a rap is a huge convenience. You no longer need to carry any of the stuff that the n00bs load in those giant packs and labor under on their way to the top.

This does assume a well established rap though, where hangups are unlikely, and any swinging around to get to the next station non-existent. Cragging style rap as opposed to alpine style raps.

Convenience rapping is great. More enjoyable climb because you aren't toting extra crap, and can be faster, resulting in more time to climb.

I'm sure the vast majority of people climbing at the gunks feel like they are closer to dying on the fourth class downclimb at the Uberfall than rapping at the bevy of bolted and non-bolted stations around the cliffs.

The first pitch of a lot of routes are the "money pitch" at the Gunks, so it really doesn't make sense to continue to the top of the cliff for a lot of folks.

And the routes that are quality all the way to the top tend to have bolted stations close by as well. And you can't expect me to leave Fido down there all by himself right?

It also probably has to do a lot with the half a rope length sport climbing / gym climbing attitude. I've heard back in the day, a route wasn't a route unless it went all the way to the top. That attitude doesn't really exist either.

That being said, I'd rather walk than rap. But then again, I've got that Uberfall down climb pretty wired.

...which means it isn't at all hard to believe...

Well, we'd have to do a survey to know for sure about the Nears. I see a lot of folks coming down the Fat City and Alphonse raps, but have no way to know what fraction of the total population is represented.

I too mostly walk back in the Nears. I have never met another party walking back ever, and I very rarely see anyone at the bottom who seems to be doing that. But these are impressions, not facts.

I'd say there's enough rapping going on at the North edge of the Nears, where walking back is very competitive in terms of convenience, to still make my point.

So maybe I should have specified the Trapps where the convenience differential is more substantial?

Rgold brought up a good point about the convenience rap anchors and people avoiding upper pitches....a lot of them quality...and a lot of them you can't really claim an ascent of the route without. This is particularly true in the Gunks. Birdland is a perfect example. I'd wager for every ten people who lead the first pitch, one leads the second. And the second is every bit as exciting and cruxy as the first, with very different climbing on it.

You haven't really done Feast of Fools if you haven't led the second pitch. How many of you folks have done the last pitch? Not stellar 5.10 climbing, but still a little sting in the tail after two pitches of 5.10.

MF has a great 5.9 second pitch, that is infrequently done.

Boldville's second pitch is two grades easier than the first, but a full two grades of pucker factor more than the first!

I can go on and on, but the point is made. Convenience rap anchors have trned a lot of people into single pitch lower off junkies.

There has been almost a complete conversion, from almost everyone walking back from every climb to almost no one walking back from any climb.

Rgold brought up a good point about the convenience rap anchors and people avoiding upper pitches....a lot of them quality...and a lot of them you can't really claim an ascent of the route without. This is particularly true in the Gunks. Birdland is a perfect example. I'd wager for every ten people who lead the first pitch, one leads the second. And the second is every bit as exciting and cruxy as the first, with very different climbing on it.

You haven't really done Feast of Fools if you haven't led the second pitch. How many of you folks have done the last pitch? Not stellar 5.10 climbing, but still a little sting in the tail after two pitches of 5.10.

MF has a great 5.9 second pitch, that is infrequently done.

Boldville's second pitch is two grades easier than the first, but a full two grades of pucker factor more than the first!

I can go on and on, but the point is made. Convenience rap anchors have trned a lot of people into single pitch lower off junkies.