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tequilaboom
Jul 6, 2011, 9:48 PM
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Hey guys,
In John Long's book of anchors, I read that he recommends using the equalette made from 7mm static nylon cord. For some reason, however, I've read in multiple places on this forum that people don't use 7mm cord because it's too weak, or because it weakens with the usage of knots...is this the case? It seems like John Long is a credible source, which makes me wonder who's right...
In case you were wondering, my friend and I are beginner trad climbers, and we have only a limited rack of passive protection. Therefore, we find climbs that are super easy (up to 5.5) and ones that have bolts in the middle of the route. We then do a mock multi-pitch setup so that the follower can be brought up by method of top belay to the middle of the wall - we then swap gear and replenish our rack for the second half of the climb. This is why I want to use the 7mm equalette to tie in to those bolts.
Let me know what you guys think! As always, thanks for all the feedback!
P.S. I have used the climbing rope itself to tie in, in the past, and that has worked well too.
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TarHeelEMT
Jul 6, 2011, 10:04 PM
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7 mil is very common for cordalettes.
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herites
Jul 6, 2011, 10:30 PM
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Do you tie it into a loop with a double fisherman?
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TarHeelEMT
Jul 6, 2011, 10:39 PM
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I do.
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herites
Jul 6, 2011, 10:43 PM
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How long should be the tails?
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acorneau
Jul 7, 2011, 2:24 AM
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tequilaboom wrote: Hey guys, In John Long's book of anchors, I read that he recommends using the equalette made from 7mm static nylon cord. For some reason, however, I've read in multiple places on this forum that people don't use 7mm cord because it's too weak, or because it weakens with the usage of knots...is this the case? It seems like John Long is a credible source, which makes me wonder who's right... In case you were wondering, my friend and I are beginner trad climbers, and we have only a limited rack of passive protection. Therefore, we find climbs that are super easy (up to 5.5) and ones that have bolts in the middle of the route. We then do a mock multi-pitch setup so that the follower can be brought up by method of top belay to the middle of the wall - we then swap gear and replenish our rack for the second half of the climb. This is why I want to use the 7mm equalette to tie in to those bolts. Let me know what you guys think! As always, thanks for all the feedback! P.S. I have used the climbing rope itself to tie in, in the past, and that has worked well too.
7mm cord is just right for a standard equalette or cordelette. 8mm would be just as fine, 6mm would be pushing it a bit.
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jmeizis
Jul 7, 2011, 4:37 AM
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7 mil is fine. Just tie it in a loop with a flat overhand and if equalized between several pieces it's plenty strong.
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surfstar
Jul 7, 2011, 4:06 PM
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If you're anchoring into bolts, a couple slings/draws or one used as a sliding x is plenty and less bulky.
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shoo
Jul 7, 2011, 5:10 PM
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7mm static???
I don't think so. Last time I checked, the recommendation was 7mm nylon specifically because it ISN'T static. Some stretch is good.
7mm nylon considered the standard. Holds up to a lot of abuse, is plenty strong, and knots easily. Stick with that.
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rnevius
Jul 7, 2011, 5:24 PM
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shoo wrote: 7mm static??? I don't think so. Last time I checked, the recommendation was 7mm nylon specifically because it ISN'T static. Some stretch is good. 7mm nylon considered the standard. Holds up to a lot of abuse, is plenty strong, and knots easily. Stick with that.
Just because it's nylon doesn't make it dynamic...there's such a thing as a static nylon line.
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shoo
Jul 7, 2011, 5:30 PM
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rnevius wrote: shoo wrote: 7mm static??? I don't think so. Last time I checked, the recommendation was 7mm nylon specifically because it ISN'T static. Some stretch is good. 7mm nylon considered the standard. Holds up to a lot of abuse, is plenty strong, and knots easily. Stick with that. Just because it's nylon doesn't make it dynamic...there's such a thing as a static nylon line.
Yes, you are correct there. However. also you can clearly see in the link below, the 7mm cord that John Long refers to is recommended because of it's stretch, aka recommending against more static materials.
http://books.google.com/...ge&q&f=false
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Rudmin
Jul 7, 2011, 5:36 PM
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Pretty much everything referred to as "static cord" is made of nylon and still has some stretch to it when compared with Spectra, Kevlar, or steel cable..
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rnevius
Jul 7, 2011, 5:44 PM
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shoo wrote: rnevius wrote: shoo wrote: 7mm static??? I don't think so. Last time I checked, the recommendation was 7mm nylon specifically because it ISN'T static. Some stretch is good. 7mm nylon considered the standard. Holds up to a lot of abuse, is plenty strong, and knots easily. Stick with that. Just because it's nylon doesn't make it dynamic...there's such a thing as a static nylon line. Yes, you are correct there. However. also you can clearly see in the link below, the 7mm cord that John Long refers to is recommended because of it's stretch, aka recommending against more static materials. http://books.google.com/...ge&q&f=false
Ah, I think I misunderstood what you were getting at. Nylon inherently has a bit of stretch, so according to Long it is better than high-strength materials that do not have the same amount of give. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this means static nylon line is still perfectly acceptable for anchors...it doesn't have to be a dynamic line. If this assumption is incorrect, I guess I should rethink what I have been doing...
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tequilaboom
Jul 7, 2011, 5:44 PM
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well here's the link to the product I bought:
http://www.mec.ca/..._id=2534374302691499
And it says "static" but still nylon...does that make it unsafe for anchoring? Alternatively, I could use webbing (but I think it's static too) or slings...or the rope of course...
what do you think?
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Rudmin
Jul 7, 2011, 5:52 PM
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tequilaboom wrote: well here's the link to the product I bought: http://www.mec.ca/..._id=2534374302691499 And it says "static" but still nylon...does that make it unsafe for anchoring? Alternatively, I could use webbing (but I think it's static too) or slings...or the rope of course... what do you think?
Yes, this is commonly used for anchoring. Try to have at minimum two strands taking the load though. More is better.
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tequilaboom
Jul 7, 2011, 5:55 PM
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ok good. And by at least two strands you mean at least two trad gear anchors or each trad gear placement is connected to the powerpoint by two strands?
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redlude97
Jul 7, 2011, 5:59 PM
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shoo wrote: rnevius wrote: shoo wrote: 7mm static??? I don't think so. Last time I checked, the recommendation was 7mm nylon specifically because it ISN'T static. Some stretch is good. 7mm nylon considered the standard. Holds up to a lot of abuse, is plenty strong, and knots easily. Stick with that. Just because it's nylon doesn't make it dynamic...there's such a thing as a static nylon line. Yes, you are correct there. However. also you can clearly see in the link below, the 7mm cord that John Long refers to is recommended because of it's stretch, aka recommending against more static materials. http://books.google.com/...ge&q&f=false
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Rudmin
Jul 7, 2011, 6:02 PM
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tequilaboom wrote: ok good. And by at least two strands you mean at least two trad gear anchors or each trad gear placement is connected to the powerpoint by two strands?
I mean that as a general rule, your life or your partner's life should not depend on a single strand of that material. It's rated to about 10 kN new, which means with some knots and some scuffing and age it might break at 6 or 7 kN which can happen in a bad fall.
So when people use it as a cordallete, they generally make it into a huge loop so that the final anchor tends to have pairs of cord rather than single strands. There's a lot of different ways and variations to do things though, so just in general, don't rely on one strand of this cord taking all of the weight of the anchor.
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trenchdigger
Jul 7, 2011, 6:12 PM
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tequilaboom wrote: well here's the link to the product I bought: http://www.mec.ca/..._id=2534374302691499 And it says "static" but still nylon...does that make it unsafe for anchoring? Alternatively, I could use webbing (but I think it's static too) or slings...or the rope of course... what do you think?
The cord is perfectly fine for what you're doing. Your level of experience is not. Make sure you're climbing with someone more experenced and knowledgable than you. You shouldn't have these kinds of questions if you're climbing multi-pitch routes.
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tequilaboom
Jul 7, 2011, 6:41 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, trenchdigger. And as I said in my original post, we only do these "mock" multipitch climbs to replenish our rack - we could just climb from the bottom to the top but we wouldn't have as many placement options. We had a guide show my climbing partner and I how to place gear and so on, but we used the rope to anchor.
I am definitely not ready for multipitch or anything like that, but I am trying to get the necessary technique for building anchors and being safe on single pitch (less than 30 meter) routes. We are definitely taking things very slowly on easy 5.5 routes, sometimes with another top rope as a back up to test the gear placements.
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IsayAutumn
Jul 7, 2011, 6:59 PM
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trenchdigger wrote: tequilaboom wrote: well here's the link to the product I bought: http://www.mec.ca/..._id=2534374302691499 And it says "static" but still nylon...does that make it unsafe for anchoring? Alternatively, I could use webbing (but I think it's static too) or slings...or the rope of course... what do you think? The cord is perfectly fine for what you're doing. Your level of experience is not. Make sure you're climbing with someone more experenced and knowledgable than you. You shouldn't have these kinds of questions if you're climbing multi-pitch routes.
^^^This is bullshit.
It sounds like you are doing things just right, tequila. From your questions it seems clear that you are curious and cautious and not getting ahead of yourself.
Trad isn't rocket science. If you have access to experienced partners, then use them. Many people don't, so you gotta do what you gotta do. Reading and taking it slow, the way you are doing it, is just fine.
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trenchdigger
Jul 7, 2011, 7:19 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: trenchdigger wrote: tequilaboom wrote: well here's the link to the product I bought: http://www.mec.ca/..._id=2534374302691499 And it says "static" but still nylon...does that make it unsafe for anchoring? Alternatively, I could use webbing (but I think it's static too) or slings...or the rope of course... what do you think? The cord is perfectly fine for what you're doing. Your level of experience is not. Make sure you're climbing with someone more experenced and knowledgable than you. You shouldn't have these kinds of questions if you're climbing multi-pitch routes. ^^^This is bullshit. It sounds like you are doing things just right, tequila. From your questions it seems clear that you are curious and cautious and not getting ahead of yourself. Trad isn't rocket science. If you have access to experienced partners, then use them. Many people don't, so you gotta do what you gotta do. Reading and taking it slow, the way you are doing it, is just fine.
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rnevius
Jul 7, 2011, 9:02 PM
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trenchdigger wrote: You're right... basic anchor building skills aren't really important for climbing safely. I take back my comment.
When did he ever say that? I know you're being sarcastic, but come on. The OP obviously knows that he/she needs more knowledge and seems to be backing up reading with questions. Sure, having a good mentor would most likely be the best option, but when you don't have access, being cautious and asking as many people as possible is a good temporary substitute.
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troutboy
Jul 7, 2011, 9:11 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: Trad isn't rocket science
You're right, it's not rocket science. In some ways it's more complicated and harder. At least in rocket science you have days and days to retest your equations and be sure your science is correct. Trad climbing you have to make the correct decisions NOW, not close of business on Friday, without the benefit of a bank of computers to analyze the data for you.
TS
(This post was edited by troutboy on Jul 7, 2011, 9:13 PM)
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tequilaboom
Jul 7, 2011, 9:24 PM
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The fact is, you're all pretty much right - I am inexperienced, but am taking things as slowly as possible. I ask as many people for their opinions as I can and read as much as I can.
I know that when people on this forum criticize me, it's because they see that I am inexperienced and don't want myself or anyone else get hurt, and I truly appreciate that.
This is exactly why I come to these forums and read and ask questions. I count on people being polite, not sarcastic and to the point.
I really do appreciate the help people!
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