Forums: Climbing Information: Beginners:
Post deleted by gauncey14
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Beginners

Premier Sponsor:

 


gauncey14


Oct 10, 2011, 10:03 AM
Post #1 of 39 (6443 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2011
Posts: 2

Post deleted by gauncey14
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  

 


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 10:11 AM
Post #2 of 39 (6433 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

gauncey14 wrote:
Hi,

I'm wondering about methods for climbing with people who either can't lead, or aren't comfortable leading/cleaning a route. I'd like to take someone out climbing who I'm afraid will not be comfortable with cleaning the anchors. Is it feasible to simply lead a climb, and then anchor into the anchors up top, and then belay them from there? Then lower them, when they finish the route, and then clean the route yourself?

I hope I'm being clear enough. The main thing I want to be able to do is be efficient while I'm out. Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it. I'm going to try and make the person just learn how to clean the anchors consider it is not hard, but if they're gonna be a sissy about it, what's the best way to handle this apart from me climbing the route twice? If there is a thread with this info already, I'd love just a quick link. I wasn't sure how to search it though


Many thanks,
Michael
If they can't learn the absolute basics of climbing, which includes cleaning anchors, then they should stick to top roping or quit. Any of your other, ahem, "solutions", are just plain ridiculous. (Unless of course she's *really* cute and you have motives beyond climbing!)


TarHeelEMT


Oct 10, 2011, 10:15 AM
Post #3 of 39 (6427 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 20, 2009
Posts: 724

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
If they can't learn the absolute basics of climbing, which includes cleaning anchors, then they should stick to top roping or quit. Any of your other, ahem, "solutions", are just plain ridiculous. (Unless of course she's *really* cute and you have motives beyond climbing!)


Are you kidding?

I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 10:22 AM
Post #4 of 39 (6416 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [TarHeelEMT] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).


lena_chita
Moderator

Oct 10, 2011, 10:24 AM
Post #5 of 39 (6394 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

When you take new climbers out, you throw your notions of efficiency out of the window, and you plan for a mellow day of climbing. Including, yes, the probability of climbing every route twice.

While it is possible to belay hanging from the anchors, it would not really save you much time in a typical single-pitch sport climbing scenario, you'll have a lot of rope to stack up there, and hanging belay is not that comfortable, especially if your climber is going to be struggling. I am not going to go into redirect vs. belay from the anchors here... if you are asking, you shouldn't be doing this.

The other possibility, and very likely one, at a busy sport climbing area with moderate grades (which sounds like your probable destination of choice) would be to tell the next group waiting in line for your group to finish climbing that they are welcome to climb on your draws, as long as they swap the draws for their own on their first go. They will most likely agree to it happily, because it would mean that they will get to climb sooner, and that would solve your problem of climbing the same route twice.



Teaching the other climbers how to do a toprope transfer is indeed not difficult, but, quite honestly, from your question I get a distinct impression that you yourself are a n00b, or you wouldn't be asking this, so maybe you shouldn't be the one taking people out or teaching them...


gauncey14


Oct 10, 2011, 10:35 AM
Post #6 of 39 (6370 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2011
Posts: 2

Re: [lena_chita] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, I'm still fairly new to climbing outside, but I know how to do everything, just haven't been out yet where I'm the most knowledgeable person. I was just wondering if I was missing something because when I was out this weekend I saw someone following a route, obviously being belayed from the top, but I'm pretty sure it was a single pitch. I didn't really look hard to see what was going on, but I just wanted to see if hanging belay wasn't out of the question I guess. It appears I will just be climbing the route twice. I guess it's not a big deal anyways considering they're gonna be 5.8/9's. Thanks for the input.


lena_chita
Moderator

Oct 10, 2011, 10:46 AM
Post #7 of 39 (6349 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

I can't know what you saw, but if a route tops out, or if the pitch is longer than half of the rope length, then belaying from the top is nothing unusual, especially if there is an easy way to walk off after everyone finishes climbing.

I was responding more to your idea of hanging on the anchors of a typical single-pitch sport route to belay. That would be too much hassle, and pretty much everyone I know would opt for climbing the route twice instead of hanging on the anchors.


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 10:46 AM
Post #8 of 39 (6345 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

gauncey14 wrote:
It appears I will just be climbing the route twice. I guess it's not a big deal anyways considering they're gonna be 5.8/9's.
Cleaning gear, either on the way up or while being lowered, is simply not that big a deal. If your noob really can't handle this most basic of tasks, you really need to rethink why you're doing this.

As far as cleaning sport anchors, if it's a pair of chains, it's usually pretty easy to rig it so that it's pre-threaded to lower the second, yet the rope is still through your draws while they are climbing (minimizing TR wear on the chains). If you don't know how to do this, again, maybe you shouldn't be the one instructing.


tH1e-swiN1e


Oct 10, 2011, 11:14 AM
Post #9 of 39 (6311 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 192

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too. Man up and climb it twice, it'll be good for you.


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 11:41 AM
Post #10 of 39 (6289 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [tH1e-swiN1e] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too.
I agree. There are ways to teach it so that when they're cleaning an anchor for real, it's not the first or even the second time they are doing it.

One of the local cliffs here that has a number of 5.easy sport routes also has a pair of bolts about 7' above the ground, expressly for teaching the technique.


ladyscarlett


Oct 10, 2011, 11:43 AM
Post #11 of 39 (6289 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2008
Posts: 376

Re: [tH1e-swiN1e] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too.

Could you go into a little more detail? Having gone through this exact process many times, I don't quite see how cleaning can be 'really' dangerous given that the second is essentially on top rope...

Cheers

LS


csproul


Oct 10, 2011, 11:54 AM
Post #12 of 39 (6280 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769

Re: [ladyscarlett] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ladyscarlett wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too.

Could you go into a little more detail? Having gone through this exact process many times, I don't quite see how cleaning can be 'really' dangerous given that the second is essentially on top rope...

Cheers

LS
Cleaning the anchors.


ladyscarlett


Oct 10, 2011, 12:19 PM
Post #13 of 39 (6253 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2008
Posts: 376

Re: [csproul] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ah right....

Battling sickness and my brain is working slower than usual.

Also, the idea of doing more than single pitch/TR with a total n00b didn't quite register cause I'm not good enough to even consider it...

Cheers

ls


markc


Oct 10, 2011, 12:32 PM
Post #14 of 39 (6242 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481

Re: [lena_chita] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
When you take new climbers out, you throw your notions of efficiency out of the window, and you plan for a mellow day of climbing. Including, yes, the probability of climbing every route twice.

I agree with this. If I'm taking someone new, or even just new to the outdoors, I'm expecting them to take a while, struggle with finding holds and general route-finding, etc. I'm going to be climbing routes that are easy for me to make sure they're not flailing from the start. If I get to climb each route twice, I'll consider it welcome.

That's also a situation where I find a slingshot belay more comfortable than belaying from the top. This person may need some coaching, time to recover on the route, etc. That sounds less than ideal for belaying from above.

For a really new climber, I'd prefer to have another experienced climber along. One experienced person can lead and rig a toprope, the middle person can climb, and the third can either pull rope and lead or just TR. This has the added benefit of keeping an experienced person with the new belayer.


bearbreeder


Oct 10, 2011, 12:42 PM
Post #15 of 39 (6231 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

just climb it twice ... if its that easy it allows you to get more climbing in anyways

plus you impress that cute gurl (she is a cute gurl right or why else would ya do it Wink ) with yr stamina


Partner cracklover


Oct 10, 2011, 1:39 PM
Post #16 of 39 (6203 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

Hmmm...

It seems to me that properly and safely teaching someone to clean the anchors on a sport route (I don't know why we're all assuming that it is a sport route, since the OP didn't say so, but let's assume that is what he meant) will eat up as much if not more of your day as just cleaning the route yourself.

So let the "guide for the day" decide which he'd rather do.

If I were in the OP's position, I would make that choice based on what I saw from the n00b. It would be pretty clear, pretty quickly, if the n00b was excited to learn everything possible, and was hooked on climbing. In that case, I would take the time to teach her to clean and lower. If the n00b was just having fun and being kind of a child about it, just wanting to be entertained, I'd quickly clean the routes myself. And if the n00b seemed like she was just not that into climbing, again, I'd just clean the routes myself.

But the OP is not me. The OP sounds like he's a n00b himself. In his case, the OP should be cleaning the routes. I really don't like the idea of someone who's only just barely learned a technique himself trying to coach an even n00bier person through a somewhat tricky process that can go very wrong very fast.

Cheers,

GO


chadnsc


Oct 10, 2011, 2:18 PM
Post #17 of 39 (6190 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 2:33 PM
Post #18 of 39 (6182 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [chadnsc] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?
It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.


marc801


Oct 10, 2011, 2:40 PM
Post #19 of 39 (6173 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [cracklover] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
Hmmm...

It seems to me that properly and safely teaching someone to clean the anchors on a sport route (I don't know why we're all assuming that it is a sport route, since the OP didn't say so, but let's assume that is what he meant) will eat up as much if not more of your day as just cleaning the route yourself.
Agree 100%. The idea wasn't to save time, esp my time, but to ensure as much as possible that the beginner is exposed to and gets to do everything that might be expected of them if they present themselves as climber the next time at the gym or crag.

cracklover wrote:
So let the "guide for the day" decide which he'd rather do.
Yep. It's just perhaps a little bit of a disservice if the GftD is ostensibly teaching the beginner and then doesn't actually teach the basics necessary.

cracklover wrote:
If I were in the OP's position, I would make that choice based on what I saw from the n00b. It would be pretty clear, pretty quickly, if the n00b was excited to learn everything possible, and was hooked on climbing. In that case, I would take the time to teach her to clean and lower. If the n00b was just having fun and being kind of a child about it, just wanting to be entertained, I'd quickly clean the routes myself. And if the n00b seemed like she was just not that into climbing, again, I'd just clean the routes myself.

But the OP is not me. The OP sounds like he's a n00b himself. In his case, the OP should be cleaning the routes. I really don't like the idea of someone who's only just barely learned a technique himself trying to coach an even n00bier person through a somewhat tricky process that can go very wrong very fast.
Oh, totally. Especially that last sentence. I'm not at all comfortable that the newbie guide-wannabe realizes the responsibility he is taking on teaching someone else who knows even less than he.


chadnsc


Oct 10, 2011, 3:14 PM
Post #20 of 39 (6159 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?
It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.

Mental attitude?

Why not actually solo the climb then and simply bring a tag line to belay up your newer climber?


socalclimber


Oct 10, 2011, 4:15 PM
Post #21 of 39 (6120 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437

Re: [chadnsc] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I agree with the concept that you're soloing, but the real question is are you prepared to do that?

The first thing you have to realize is that once YOU leave the ground, you have little to no control over what they do.

Turn this into a day of top roping and forget about leading anything with this person. Since you have to ask these questions online, you are really putting your neck on the block and are not prepared or experienced enough to take these risks, much less asses them.

Keep it simple, straight forward and something you can manage with ease. Pick easy routes in the beginning and then maybe later on in the day up the ante. Even on top rope, you have to rely on their belay.

Do you really want to take those kind of chances?


johnwesely


Oct 10, 2011, 4:36 PM
Post #22 of 39 (6102 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5344

Re: [cracklover] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Just another case of the overconfident noob and the underconfident nooblet.


Kartessa


Oct 10, 2011, 7:54 PM
Post #23 of 39 (6057 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7362

Re: [chadnsc] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?
It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.

Mental attitude?

Why not actually solo the climb then and simply bring a tag line to belay up your newer climber?

I thought that's why you bring the grigri?


TarHeelEMT


Oct 10, 2011, 8:09 PM
Post #24 of 39 (6048 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 20, 2009
Posts: 724

Re: [Kartessa] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?
It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.

Mental attitude?

Why not actually solo the climb then and simply bring a tag line to belay up your newer climber?

I thought that's why you bring the grigri?

The first time my girlfriend lowered me on a grigri was one of my scariest moments in climbing.


Rmsyll2


Oct 11, 2011, 8:05 AM
Post #25 of 39 (5941 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Re: [johnwesely] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

'johnwesely' wrote: "Just another case of the overconfident noob and the underconfident nooblet."

I see or hear of such situations commonly, and the word "cruel" comes to my mind. The word "teaching" doesn't.

Two options missing so far: the lead unclips or cleans the pro on the way down, meaning the second can just climb, and the lead can lead again for less boredom and more practice. Doing laps is a basic training tactic for anyone at any level. Also, I know of no easy climbs that cannot be made harder for more interest.

.


climbingtrash


Oct 11, 2011, 9:40 PM
Post #26 of 39 (2483 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 5114

Re: [TarHeelEMT] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

TarHeelEMT wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
marc801 wrote:
TarHeelEMT wrote:
I do this:
In reply to:
Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.
We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?
It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.

Mental attitude?

Why not actually solo the climb then and simply bring a tag line to belay up your newer climber?

I thought that's why you bring the grigri?

The first time my girlfriend lowered me on a grigri was one of my scariest moments in climbing.

A PTFTW makes someone lowering on a grigri for the first time much less scary.


jjones16


Oct 13, 2011, 7:57 AM
Post #27 of 39 (2433 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2010
Posts: 80

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

First, you don't have to lead a route to clean the anchors; as your first sentence implies. Second, it should be clearly established before you take someone out what the expectations are of both the more experienced person, and the noob. Getting this straight before the trip will save oodles of headache. Does the person want to learn to clean? Are they capable of learning? Is there easy top access where someone can direct them through the process safely from the top? Are you qualified to teach them? If they get up there, freak out from being suspended by a PAS/sling/rope whatever (I've seen this happen often and it always amazes me that people will climb and fall on anchors but freak out where their static body weight is suspended on them) are you prepared to clean all day? If they can't lead are you prepared to lead all day? These are all pertinent questions that should be addressed and answered clearly before you go out.

Also, as someone else stated, it will be far quicker for you to lead and clean routes than it will be for you to teach them that day. However, with that being said, if you're going to be climbing with that person regularly and you're developing them as a partner, teaching them, although painstaking and time-consuming will pay off in the future. Just be safe about it, and don't take any shortcuts.


ckirkwood9


Oct 13, 2011, 10:12 AM
Post #28 of 39 (2413 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 261

Re: [jjones16] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

***JJones16 good response***

Setting expectations will make it a better experience for all. I think many members of this site forget what it was like to be a newbie.

Remember, if you will, the first time you got on the wall... and just how overwhelming it can be at times.

Most beginners SO much to deal with

- fear of heights
- fear of falling
- learning to trust the harness, the rope, the belayer

Why throw additional things at them like cleaning gear.

Sure it's easy to an experienced climber because they've already learned
to overcome the challenges that a beginner faces.

A climber who suggests that it's 'easy' to clean gear for someone who's
learning how to overcome the many mental hurdles that climbing presents
probably shouldn't be taking on the role of instructor.

BESIDES flip around your thinking to the positive ~ if you have to clean the route you've lead ~
that means you get to climb each route twice. BONUS!


jjones16


Oct 13, 2011, 10:30 AM
Post #29 of 39 (2403 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2010
Posts: 80

Re: [ckirkwood9] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, I kinda fall in that noob/experienced purgatory where I'm competent enough to teach basics but not so far removed from being a noob that I don't remember how tough it can be sometimes. If I can help someone new to it progress safely and efficiently, I'm happy to do it. It provides a safer and more fun experience for everyone. Thanks for the props ckirkwood9.


kevthegerman


Oct 13, 2011, 10:47 AM
Post #30 of 39 (2395 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 25, 2008
Posts: 54

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

please don't bring yourself or any of your NOOBS to texas area and climb.. out climbing is sensitive enough as it is and if you and your NOOBS smash to the ground at our crags you will most certainly have the closed down for us.. thanks... hey climbingtrash, hows it going??? even tho you are kind of a jerk, i still like your site..


marc801


Oct 13, 2011, 11:44 AM
Post #31 of 39 (2379 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806

Re: [ckirkwood9] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ckirkwood9 wrote:
Remember, if you will, the first time you got on the wall... and just how overwhelming it can be at times.

Most beginners SO much to deal with

- fear of heights
- fear of falling
- learning to trust the harness, the rope, the belayer

Why throw additional things at them like cleaning gear.

Sure it's easy to an experienced climber because they've already learned to overcome the challenges that a beginner faces.
A key difference between good instruction and merely teaching is to know what to introduce when and at what rate. This would include the option of not teaching something if the instructor sees the student becoming overwhelmed. It can also mean throttling back to an easier/less intense level if necessary.


ckirkwood9


Oct 13, 2011, 1:09 PM
Post #32 of 39 (2364 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 261

Re: [marc801] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Agreed Marc801... the teacher shouldn't expect anything other than to have patience with the new climber. lol


zakadamsgt


Oct 13, 2011, 1:29 PM
Post #33 of 39 (2359 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 110

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I wouldnt say they're being a sissy for not wanting to clean the anchors. A great deal of climbing accidents happen cleaning, rapping, or miscommunication on being lowered. I dont think anyone should do this until they are solid on the basic process and have learned it back and forth on the ground.

If you're looking for efficiency and speed, take your partner out, not a noob. Taking a noob out is about them, as you will inevitably spend most of the day pulling them up a route and coaching them.

Hopefully she's a cutie!

Z


climbingtrash


Oct 13, 2011, 2:07 PM
Post #34 of 39 (2354 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 5114

Re: [kevthegerman] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

kevthegerman wrote:
please don't bring yourself or any of your NOOBS to texas area and climb.. out climbing is sensitive enough as it is and if you and your NOOBS smash to the ground at our crags you will most certainly have the closed down for us.. thanks... hey climbingtrash, hows it going??? even tho you are kind of a jerk, i still like your site..

wo0! That's me! But on here we spell it g3rk. Tongue


kevthegerman


Oct 14, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #35 of 39 (2277 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 25, 2008
Posts: 54

Re: [climbingtrash] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

"like"


blueeyedclimber


Oct 15, 2011, 11:47 AM
Post #36 of 39 (2242 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [cracklover] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:

Hmmm...

It seems to me that properly and safely teaching someone to clean the anchors on a sport route (I don't know why we're all assuming that it is a sport route, since the OP didn't say so, but let's assume that is what he meant) will eat up as much if not more of your day as just cleaning the route yourself.

So let the "guide for the day" decide which he'd rather do.

If I were in the OP's position, I would make that choice based on what I saw from the n00b. It would be pretty clear, pretty quickly, if the n00b was excited to learn everything possible, and was hooked on climbing. In that case, I would take the time to teach her to clean and lower. If the n00b was just having fun and being kind of a child about it, just wanting to be entertained, I'd quickly clean the routes myself. And if the n00b seemed like she was just not that into climbing, again, I'd just clean the routes myself.

But the OP is not me. The OP sounds like he's a n00b himself. In his case, the OP should be cleaning the routes. I really don't like the idea of someone who's only just barely learned a technique himself trying to coach an even n00bier person through a somewhat tricky process that can go very wrong very fast.

Cheers,

GO

I don't know why we're assuming the n00b is a female, either. Wink

Josh


Kartessa


Oct 15, 2011, 12:11 PM
Post #37 of 39 (2237 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7362

Re: [blueeyedclimber] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:

I don't know why we're assuming the n00b is a female, either. Wink

Josh

Why else would someone go to all that trouble?


ilikepargo


Oct 16, 2011, 8:42 AM
Post #38 of 39 (2183 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2008
Posts: 133

Re: [gauncey14] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Wow.

Have you noticed that nearly everyone in this thread thinks you're impossibly foolish? Open your eyes. Look again. Notice it.

To even have a n00b give you a lead-belay on a gri-gri is a sketch proposal. The idea that a n00b should be expected to safely clean anchors is insane. If nothing else, climb the route twice. But even that is unsafe for you and unfair to your n00b. You need to either find a place where you can walk up to set TR or go with an additional experienced climber. Give your n00b time to watch and learn.

In meantime, I also hope that you don't climb near me. Unless you start taking safety more seriously, you will make a mess someday.


jjones16


Oct 16, 2011, 9:36 AM
Post #39 of 39 (2172 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2010
Posts: 80

Re: [ilikepargo] Climbing with Noobs [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think your assessment is a little harsh. Don't climb near you? You know, there are safe methods of learning that don't involve "watching and learning". I propose to you that none of us ever learned to be proficient by just watching. Sure you learn, a little, but not like you would with hands on. You don't learn to belay a leader by watching someone else do it. You learn by belaying a leader. The same goes with rapping and cleaning. There are safe ways to let noobs have hands on. With belaying; that's easy. You just have someone back up the brake strand. If the noob screws up, belayer #2 has the rope. With rapping and/or cleaning, you can have someone at the top of the route to make sure they're either anchored or on belay 100% of the time. Totally safe. You can even back up the rappel twice. Once with a friction hitch, and again with a fireman's belay if need be. My point is that to suggest that no one take "noobs" out and let them do anything is kind of ridiculous. We were all noobs once, and would be still if we didn't have mentors to safely teach us the proper way to do things. Should we not let them tie in themselves either, in the event that they mess up the knot? No one expects a noob to "safely clean anchors". We, as the more experienced party ensure that it is a safe experience. How would you have felt if the first time you belayed a leader, some asshole came up to you and said "hey noob, sit this one out, just watch and learn, oh and by the way, if you must belay, please don't do so near me, you might make a mess." My guess is you wouldn't have liked that at all. No one would. Unless you came out of the womb knowing how to lead, clean and rappel, you're kind of being a hypocrite.

*edited for horrendous grammar


(This post was edited by jjones16 on Oct 16, 2011, 11:31 AM)


Forums : Climbing Information : Beginners

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook