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corona
Jan 9, 2014, 12:49 PM
Post #26 of 37
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Registered: May 28, 2003
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There is some major misinformation in a few of the replies on here that I feel moved to clear up. I've been burned with bad drill purchases in the past going on ill-informed opinions, and these things are expensive.
1) Working well in the construction industry does not mean it works well on rock. If you haven't bolted routes before, please keep your opinion to yourself.
2) Rock type makes a huge difference in what is an acceptable drill. Just because an 18v DeWalt works fine in Moab's desert sandstone (it does) doesn't mean it works well in Ten Sleep dolomite (it doesn't.) Since we don't know the rock type that the OP intends to drill in, I would hesitate to recommend anything other less than 24v, preferrably 36v.
Other considerations:
Remote location: petrol/gasoline powered preferred over battery (unless you have a means of charging)
Really dense rock, low angle: petrol over battery
Steep, soft rock: (lightweight) battery over petrol
remote
Multipitch: petrol or drills that can be juryrigged for an external, hanging battery pack
Durability: Bosch 24v/36v drills and petrol drills are reputed to be quite durable
The workhorses of bolters around the world are the Bosch 24v and especially 36v drills. Some people use Hiltis, and I've heard not complaints about efficacy or durability. The Panasonics also get good reviews in Europe. Good batteries are important. Don't buy a drill with less than 24v. Petrol drills are great, but are exceedingly heavy. I wouldn't deviate much from these drills here, as everyone I know that has has gotten burnt.
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majid_sabet
Jan 10, 2014, 11:56 AM
Post #27 of 37
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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I own several cordless and almost every model petrol SDS drill in the market and the statement about gasoline drill been too heavy is not so true.
The ryobi ER160 which is my favorite is about 13 lbs and when you compare it to most cordless drill,the weight is not that off when you add the charger and few extra battery to cordless drill et.
IMO all electric drills are great for bolting short routes where you have access to recharge or replacing batteries with fresh one however, for all remote areas especially deep expedition style bolting where charging is out of option, the gasoline drills are superior to all other type of drills due to fact that for 12 oz of fuel, you can drill almost every type of rock (assuming your bits allow you).
The disadvantage of gasoline drill are the cost and finding a good working one .
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 3:14 PM
Post #28 of 37
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Registered: Nov 27, 2002
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Not to mention the need to tote gasoline and your nylon gear at the same time. I prefer to keep those two as far apart as possible. I used the gas-powered Bosch bulldog for years, and loved it, but always had someone else carry the fuel. Not a prob is you have a partner to do so, but solo bolters should think that one through.
The Hilti TE-10A was a great drill, but in the end the batteries were, as pointed out before, crap. Now that one is a vanished species (I think) and I've gone over to the Bosch Litheon. As to the contention that gas is better than bolts for continued production, I purchased the deal that came with two batteries and a charger. I typically get 12-16 3/8" x 3" holes per battery charge in desert dacite and rhyolite, 10-12 in limestone, and 6-8 in the armor plate quartzite we find across this part of the east.
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marc801
Jan 10, 2014, 4:25 PM
Post #29 of 37
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Registered: Aug 1, 2005
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roninthorne wrote: Not to mention the need to tote gasoline and your nylon gear at the same time. I prefer to keep those two as far apart as possible. I used the gas-powered Bosch bulldog for years, and loved it, but always had someone else carry the fuel. Not a prob is you have a partner to do so, but solo bolters should think that one through.
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 5:19 PM
Post #30 of 37
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Registered: Nov 27, 2002
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marc801 wrote: Gasoline has no effect on nylon. Yes, there's the aroma and the merciless attraction of dirt, but it doesn't damage nylon.
Thanks... wasn't sure that question had been settled once and for all.
But aside from those two affects mentioned above, neither of which seems desirable, what about when it catches fire because you sparked up too close to the aforementioned fumes? Not just trying to find a way to redeem my remark, just asking.
It also occurs to me that my battery operated drill isn't creating those greenhouse gases so many folks seem vitally concerned about these days, nor does anyone have to hear the deep honking roar of a gas-powered motor. No such thing as a solar-powered refinery, yet, as far as I know.
Just two more reasons I prefer battery to gas.
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kennoyce
Jan 10, 2014, 5:41 PM
Post #31 of 37
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Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
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[quote "roninthorneIt also occurs to me that my battery operated drill isn't creating those greenhouse gases so many folks seem vitally concerned about these days, nor does anyone have to hear the deep honking roar of a gas-powered motor. No such thing as a solar-powered refinery, yet, as far as I know.
Now that's funny, where do you think that electricity comes from when you charge the battery for your drill?
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 6:16 PM
Post #32 of 37
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Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
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LOL... the same place the electricity for you posting online, I suppose.
I live in WV, so I have just a bit of insight as to how electricity is generated, and what it costs in environmental terms. Still pretty sure the efficiency of an outlet as opposed to that of a gas-powered drill motor is a much higher return for the fuel used... specially since I don't live thousands of miles away from the generation point.
Mine is actually charged with a solar array, since you ask.
Oh, I'm sorry, is that your triumphant making-of-a-point going down in flames over there?
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JimTitt
Jan 10, 2014, 7:28 PM
Post #33 of 37
(7918 views)
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Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 1002
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majid_sabet wrote: I own several cordless and almost every model petrol SDS drill in the market and the statement about gasoline drill been too heavy is not so true. The ryobi ER160 which is my favorite is about 13 lbs and when you compare it to most cordless drill,the weight is not that off when you add the charger and few extra battery to cordless drill et. IMO all electric drills are great for bolting short routes where you have access to recharge or replacing batteries with fresh one however, for all remote areas especially deep expedition style bolting where charging is out of option, the gasoline drills are superior to all other type of drills due to fact that for 12 oz of fuel, you can drill almost every type of rock (assuming your bits allow you). The disadvantage of gasoline drill are the cost and finding a good working one .
I keep thinking of getting a gas-powered drill (I use to borrow a Pinjar a few years back) and this one looks to be a step forwards with Honda 4 stroke power and quality http://www.klettersteigbau-hzi.at/Benzinbohrmaschine.html
The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular!
Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day.
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majid_sabet
Jan 11, 2014, 6:39 AM
Post #34 of 37
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
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I have one china model SDS and they are cheap. I picked off ebay new for $200 and used a few times. very powerful. its a copy of hilti model I have but used hilti goes for about $800. ryobi er-160 is really unique and easy to work with and my #1 choice.
this the link to Chinese ones
http://hotool.en.made-in-china.com/...ill-HT-ZQC-26A-.html
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jan 11, 2014, 6:40 AM)
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satch
Jan 14, 2014, 2:20 AM
Post #35 of 37
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Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 94
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I've had 4 drills and the 36 volt Bosch hammer is by far the best for extensive bolting. cpooutlets.com has them as reconditioned from time to time. I got one, it's fast in hard sandstone and it has been great for 3 years.
Another way you can save $ is with a drill bit sharpener. I use the Drill Doctor and can reuse each bit once.
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billcoe_
Jan 15, 2014, 2:31 AM
Post #36 of 37
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
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JimTitt wrote: .........The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular! Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day.
Heads up Jim. Be aware that out military has had some explosions on airplanes of the newer lithium batteries. The US military are mandating the older batteries like the Nimh (Nickel Metal Hydride) for anything like tools that might go airborne. Some private companies have seen this play out and it could be that moving a Lithium (or "Lithion" as Bosch wants to call it for trademark reasons) on an airplane through US airspace may be very difficult coming up soon. UPS currently won't carry one to Hawaii for example where they only have air service. Private carries may be next.
Thought you'd want to know to keep an eye on it.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Jan 15, 2014, 2:34 AM)
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JimTitt
Jan 15, 2014, 6:04 AM
Post #37 of 37
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Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 1002
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billcoe_ wrote: JimTitt wrote: .........The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular! Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day. Heads up Jim. Be aware that out military has had some explosions on airplanes of the newer lithium batteries. The US military are mandating the older batteries like the Nimh (Nickel Metal Hydride) for anything like tools that might go airborne. Some private companies have seen this play out and it could be that moving a Lithium (or "Lithion" as Bosch wants to call it for trademark reasons) on an airplane through US airspace may be very difficult coming up soon. UPS currently won't carry one to Hawaii for example where they only have air service. Private carries may be next. Thought you'd want to know to keep an eye on it.
There have been worldwide restrictions on carrying Li-ion (and LiPo) batts since 2009, they are in the IATA regs. This is due to a number of incidents and the loss of a UPS freight 747 and crew after a lithium fire which the on-board fire system cannot extinguish.
For our purposes itīs not really a problem due to the capacity but you MUST carry them correctly packed, declare them and IN YOUR HAND LUGGAGE. Undeclared batteries in the hold may be removed and destroyed, this has happened to a friend of mine flying from Stuttgart.
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