No one is saying that static is not the overall beefier choice, but there is nothing wrong with webbing. Saying you should always use webbing because of the added safety is like saying you should always travel in an armoured personal carrier instead of a car because you are more likely to survive a crash. If there were stats to back up the claim that webbing was anything less than safe, I am sure we would all use static all the time....I wonder how many people only use steel biners in their TR set-ups instead of those very unsafe aluminums?

You betcha.

After reading all that I felt I had to contribute something that I was qualified to comment about.

... Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner....

Definitely will make myself clear and precise in the future.

How do we know you are qualified ?

Do you have certification ?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Armored Personnel Carriers aren't really designed to protect you from accidents. Most cars these days are probably far safer.

Dear Mr.Moser,
Thank you for taking the time to email PCGI.

One of our BOD members, Mr. Joseph Vulpis just called me on my personal line and informed me of your email. I just logged in to the PCGI email account to read it. I just looked at the thread you linked. I see his comments about webbing. I do not see any comments where he suggests that he is speaking on behalf of the PCGI, or representing PCGI's opinions on webbing. PCGI certainly does not shun the use of webbing in its course work, manuals or otherwise.

That all being said, I don't think it is appropriate for PCGI to comment on Joesph's personal "opinions" expressed on webbing via any Internet forum. Internet forums are far from official and are in my opinion often a place of misunderstanding. In my humble opinion to formulate any real understanding of Josephs actual opinions and/or use of any climbing anchoring material, one would need to actually go climbing with him and see it and hear it first hand from him. As in my opinion, online forums are not a reliable source of information.

Joseph is in fact a PCGI board member. He is not a certified PCGI guide, or on any PCGI technical or educational development committee. Joseph does NOT run PCGI courses (he is not approved to do so) he simply markets and/or sells them for approved PCGI course providers on the east coast, such as Paul Curran from the Gunks and David Wolff from the New River. I can't speak to what Alan Jolley knows or does not know, but I'm 100% confident that Alan and Joseph are on good terms both professionally and personally.

Furthermore and perhaps most importantly, Joseph was brought on the PCGI board due to his experience and success as a newer guide service owner on the East Coast and for his strong belief in experiential and adult education. Our BOD members are not selected for technical guiding knowledge, as the BOD advises PCGI strictly on business concerns. Our technical and education committee members are chosen for educational and technical prowess and steer PCGI on a technical and education front. Again, Joseph is not part of that team.

I beleive that as a BOD member of PCGI, Joseph and any other BOD members for that matter, should take great care in making any public statements (even via online forums) especially with comments that could be easily misunderstood and/or misstated. After speaking with Joseph tonight, I am positive Mr.Vulpius will think harder about his public statements in the future, regardless if they are said directly on PCGI's behalf or not. I also agree with you that comments made by BOD members can shed certain degrees of light on any org, both positive and negative.

Thank you again for taking the time to email PCGI.

Sincerely,
Zeke Federman
PCGI Secretary of the Board


AND THEN A LITTLE LATER

Dear Mr.Moser,
I read more of the thread and see where Joseph makes claims to be a "PCGI course provider" and that PCGI does not allow students to use webbing. Those statements are completely false. We are shocked Joseph has made such statements and are dealing with him on a disaplianry level. Thanks again for your email.


Sincerely,
Zeke Federman
PCGI Secretary of the Board

Curt, your thoughts are invalid here because all you like to do is argue on forums so move along. I recall mentioning something about soft southwest route ratings a few years ago on a forum and you flew off the handle. So you will be ignored.

Like I stated above, webbing dries out FAST when exposed to sunlight like it is when used in a top-rope set up all day or even just for a few hours which weakens it by drying it out. We've all seen this happen.

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

Dear Mr.Moser,
Thank you for taking the time to email PCGI.

One of our BOD members, Mr. Joseph Vulpis just called me on my personal line and informed me of your email. I just logged in to the PCGI email account to read it. I just looked at the thread you linked. I see his comments about webbing. I do not see any comments where he suggests that he is speaking on behalf of the PCGI, or representing PCGI's opinions on webbing. PCGI certainly does not shun the use of webbing in its course work, manuals or otherwise.

That all being said, I don't think it is appropriate for PCGI to comment on Joesph's personal "opinions" expressed on webbing via any Internet forum. Internet forums are far from official and are in my opinion often a place of misunderstanding. In my humble opinion to formulate any real understanding of Josephs actual opinions and/or use of any climbing anchoring material, one would need to actually go climbing with him and see it and hear it first hand from him. As in my opinion, online forums are not a reliable source of information.

Joseph is in fact a PCGI board member. He is not a certified PCGI guide, or on any PCGI technical or educational development committee. Joseph does NOT run PCGI courses (he is not approved to do so) he simply markets and/or sells them for approved PCGI course providers on the east coast, such as Paul Curran from the Gunks and David Wolff from the New River. I can't speak to what Alan Jolley knows or does not know, but I'm 100% confident that Alan and Joseph are on good terms both professionally and personally.

Furthermore and perhaps most importantly, Joseph was brought on the PCGI board due to his experience and success as a newer guide service owner on the East Coast and for his strong belief in experiential and adult education. Our BOD members are not selected for technical guiding knowledge, as the BOD advises PCGI strictly on business concerns. Our technical and education committee members are chosen for educational and technical prowess and steer PCGI on a technical and education front. Again, Joseph is not part of that team.

I beleive that as a BOD member of PCGI, Joseph and any other BOD members for that matter, should take great care in making any public statements (even via online forums) especially with comments that could be easily misunderstood and/or misstated. After speaking with Joseph tonight, I am positive Mr.Vulpius will think harder about his public statements in the future, regardless if they are said directly on PCGI's behalf or not. I also agree with you that comments made by BOD members can shed certain degrees of light on any org, both positive and negative.

Thank you again for taking the time to email PCGI.

Sincerely,
Zeke Federman
PCGI Secretary of the Board


AND THEN A LITTLE LATER

Dear Mr.Moser,
I read more of the thread and see where Joseph makes claims to be a "PCGI course provider" and that PCGI does not allow students to use webbing. Those statements are completely false. We are shocked Joseph has made such statements and are dealing with him on a disaplianry level. Thanks again for your email.


Sincerely,
Zeke Federman
PCGI Secretary of the Board

This is a tangent, but worth pointing out for climbers who may not be aware of splices in spools of webbing. There was another incident of spliced webbing separating at the Happy Hour Crag in 2000. A pdf of the report is here:

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/...alysisHappyHour1.pdf

I don't recall the details of the accident you're referring to, Majid. I'd argue that if one element of the anchor failing causes a catastrophic failure, it's not well-constructed.

so after the suspect was convicted in the RC court, what was the outcome ?

Is webbing safe on TR or not ?

Does webbing has to be certified ?

Does TR rigger has to have AMGA ,PCGA...whatever qualification ?

Does TR has to be certified by board member ?

I'm still pretty new, and in the process of collecting anchor materials. I've had a top-rope anchors class, hired a guide, and been out with several groups where I participated in anchor building. I have been watching this thread closely for a number of reasons.

My question: when using static cord for an anchor what diameter do you use? I've been using 7mm nylon cord tied into an equalette for 2 and 3 bolt top-rope anchors. Should I be using something thicker?

For reference, PMI 7mm cord is rated at 10.7 KN, and with 2+ legs on the anchor it should easily be over 20KN.

I'm still pretty new, and in the process of collecting anchor materials. I've had a top-rope anchors class, hired a guide, and been out with several groups where I participated in anchor building. I have been watching this thread closely for a number of reasons.

My question: when using static cord for an anchor what diameter do you use? I've been using 7mm nylon cord tied into an equalette for 2 and 3 bolt top-rope anchors. Should I be using something thicker?

For reference, PMI 7mm cord is rated at 10.7 KN, and with 2+ legs on the anchor it should easily be over 20KN.

Thanks! I agree, it's very difficult to answer questions like this online. It just seems like every new thing that I learn raises more questions. After reading that people use 11.5mm static in their anchors I began to questions my own.