What's the difference between grades indoors and outdoors? isn't a v3 a v3 and a v8 a v8 whether indoors or outdoors?

and wow jomagam, way to show some charm.....

my question's still not answered though lol. since there's a difference in indoors vs. outdoors, then how about the time it takes to do outdoors v6's?

What's the difference between grades indoors and outdoors? isn't a v3 a v3 and a v8 a v8 whether indoors or outdoors?

and wow jomagam, way to show some charm.....

if not everyone becomes a millionaire, just use logic and turn the question into how long does it take the average millionaire to get to the million dollar point.

I wasn't aware that v6 isn't obtained by most people that climb on a regular basis.

I wasn't aware that v6 isn't obtained by most people that climb on a regular basis.

Indoor climbing grades are soft, because gym owners want their customers to feel good and have fun and to come back another day. Grades indoors do not have a consistant grading concensious to dial-in the true level of difficultly. Indoor routes are taken down in two weeks or so.


AB

Indoor climbing grades are soft, because gym owners want their customers to feel good and have fun and to come back another day. Grades indoors do not have a consistant grading concensious to dial-in the true level of difficultly. Indoor routes are taken down in two weeks or so.

I agree that most people never climb V6. Many gyms make routes extra soft, so you keep coming back to build your ego ... and it sounds as though it's working.

I agree that most people never climb V6. Many gyms make routes extra soft, so you keep coming back to build your ego ... and it sounds as though it's working.

and i one took a "hardcore trad" climber who climbs 5.11 crack so he says into the gym, and he couldnt even get up an overhanging 5.10 route

if not everyone becomes a millionaire, just use logic and turn the question into how long does it take the average millionaire to get to the million dollar point.

I wasn't aware that v6 isn't obtained by most people that climb on a regular basis.

I must say, after reading everyone's replies, there are a rather large amount of a) massive climbing snobs, b) grade obsessed idiots, and c) rather unkind people on this forum.

Anyway, in my (not particularly extensive) experience, there is a rather variable definition of 'most' when it comes to people's climbing progression... and at the end of the day, comparing yourself to everyone else can waste so much time and you don't get a whole lot out of it.

Just climb. Enjoy it. And don't get hung up on grades, and how long it takes you to get to the next grade, and how many people can climb at your grade, and how long it took them, and blahdeeblahblahblah.

Nobody gives a damn what grade or level a person climbs at. There is no lesser or greater personal accomplishment of the 5.5 climber, as compared to the 5.12+ climber.

I must say, after reading everyone's replies, there are a rather large amount of a) massive climbing snobs, b) grade obsessed idiots, and c) rather unkind people on this forum.

Anyway, in my (not particularly extensive) experience, there is a rather variable definition of 'most' when it comes to people's climbing progression... and at the end of the day, comparing yourself to everyone else can waste so much time and you don't get a whole lot out of it.

Just climb. Enjoy it. And don't get hung up on grades, and how long it takes you to get to the next grade, and how many people can climb at your grade, and how long it took them, and blahdeeblahblahblah.

I think that gym grades vary largely. you can't say gyms as a whole set soft or hard. My gym sets harder routes and gives them lower grades. Others do not. It just depends.

So what you are saying is you can probably crush v12 outside

as long as that 5.5 trad climber doesnt go off and shout out to the world about how hardcore it is for leading an easy trad climb and about how boulderers are just hauling thelmselves, sport climbers are weenies, and little kid doing 5.14 are crap ...

climb what you like ... but if yr a 5.5 trad climber, understand thats what you are ... and that the only valid excuse you have is that you have no desire to climb at a higher level ...youre certainly not better than a sport climber or boulderer who tries to climb at their limt

none of that ... im too tall/fat/old/tired/no time crap ... and especially none of that bouldering/sport/climbing hard aint real climbing ... etc ...

[image]http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/247972_430571950333632_2112095981_n.jpg[/image]

i meant than other gyms lol i haven't climb at enough places outside to compare them to outside grades

5.5 climbers should be seen and not heard?

I see more upper-end climbers shouting out to the world, how hard-core it is to climb a stiff route, i.e. posing, posturing, hissy-fits, shirt-off/wool cap-on and general indifferent to anyone around them. This may be a generalization, but this kind of display seems to happen a sport areas.

Furthermore, there are a lot of valid reasons why someone isn't climbing at a higher level or above 5.5 or whatever and has nothing to do with lack of desire. Reasons...what about age, injuries, body type, family responsibilities, economic status, parent selection, illness, location, business issues, personal fears, on and on.

Example, I climb with a group of older climbers, who in there day, crushed and put-up first ascents. They cling to their declining abilities and grade descent. Reason...see the previous paragraph. Has nothing to do with lack of desire.

I have much more respect for the person who is trying to overcome all of life's obstacles and is only climbing 5.5, than the gifted and superior talent, that has all the time in the world, good genes and support to devote to the sport.

not out here ... most people ive met who climb hard sport are much more humble than all those "trad" climbers out here ... theyre too busy climbing and sending ...

they dont run around telling you the million ways yr going to die, scream at you for "unsafe" anchors, tell you how "hardcore" they were for running up snake dike, argue about how gumbie you are for using a cordelette and not tying in with the rope, how gri gris are the work of the devll and that you should only use an ATC, etc ...

the very best part about sport climbing, or any other type of hard climbing? when you get destroyed on a 5.11/12 and some 60 year old guy just hikes up it ... it happens quite frequently

its not a matter about how HARD you climb ... but what kind of excuses you make about not climbing to your limits and putting down kids who do climb to the very best of their abilities ...

climb what you want ... but dont be under the impression that some kid bouldering V6 doesnt love climbing or isnt a "real climber"

it not the grade that matters ... it that your willing to give it EVERYTHING ... and if you dont, not to make excuses about it or say "oh its only sport/gym climbing/boudlering" so it doesnt matter ...

Wow...are we touching some kind of nerve?

What's this constant reference to: "putting down kids"? Somewhere, in this whole discussion is putting down kids or anyone of any age?

As eloquently stated...climb what you want, but don't make the impression that some old guy climbing 5.5 doesn't love climbing or isn't a real climber! Let the old guy spray about his 5.5 ascent of some crappy choss-pile...afterall, he is giving it his all.

wow.. a simple question turned into this lol you all think that the area you live in and the places you gone are what the whole world is like. Not everyone is the same and has the same mentality. You all live in your own little world that you can not see past. What idiots you are to come on here to push your views onto others trying to do the same to you. Come on this site for knowledge and helping others gain it, not to satisfy your idiocy.

knowledge and gain? ... spend more time on RC

if you want real knowledge that you can put to good use, go out and climb ...

the intrawebs is full of people telling you the million of ways yr gonna die ...

just go out and climb as hard and as much as you can ... and if you wont dont make excuses or blame others for it

And remember folks: "you have to give it your all"

The way you asked this question implies much much more than what you asked. Had you phrased it, "How would you know if your ready for v6?" your replies might take on a more positive nature. Climbing is not viewed favorably as a competition between others as much as a competition with yourself, keep this in context.

All climbers of any experience will talk you down and challenge your ability to pursue climbing. Its how we identify those who have no business trying to climb above their level cause its those very climbers who end up on a newsreel and give the rest of us and our activity a bad reputation. If you don't recognize this then its your own ignorance trying to tell you your not ready.

Come across as a useless git and you will be responded to as one. Show respect and a little humility and you may make a few friends around here.

oh right, so that's why they have competition for nationals and world and trying to get into the olympics?

measuring your progress against others is in no way against anything. if i'm going to do something i love such as climbing, i want to be the best. I want to know how i compare to others. not in a mean or overly competitive way, just to track my progress

I would definitely disagree and say that there is a lot of variety in a gym. The route setters have all types of style and holds. I would say a gym has more variety than an area outdoors simply because the problems are whatever they want it to be and you can make up routes on top of those and get even more types of climbing styles.

I would definitely disagree and say that there is a lot of variety in a gym. The route setters have all types of style and holds. I would say a gym has more variety than an area outdoors simply because the problems are whatever they want it to be and you can make up routes on top of those and get even more types of climbing styles.

I would definitely disagree and say that there is a lot of variety in a gym. The route setters have all types of style and holds. I would say a gym has more variety than an area outdoors simply because the problems are whatever they want it to be and you can make up routes on top of those and get even more types of climbing styles.

I would definitely disagree and say that there is a lot of variety in a gym. The route setters have all types of style and holds. I would say a gym has more variety than an area outdoors simply because the problems are whatever they want it to be and you can make up routes on top of those and get even more types of climbing styles.

What's the difference between grades indoors and outdoors? isn't a v3 a v3 and a v8 a v8 whether indoors or outdoors?

and wow jomagam, way to show some charm.....

have you even been outside?????

go climb just cracks ... not sport ... and youll find out that even that limited purview there is much more variety than the gym ... fingers, offwidths, chimneys, roof cracks, hands, fists, dihedrals, smeary racks, layback cracks, shallow tips cracks, etc ... ... each one uses a different technique

now add in all the sport, big walls, slab, bouldering, etc ... each one with basically just as much variety ... and anyone can see how stupid your statement is

just go out and climb instead of being a total aggressively ignorant idiot

and what, those styles can't be replicated in a gym? i mean yeah sure, outdoor rock definitely has the different textures and environment and that can't be put indoors, but the moves and holds can definitely be replicated. If you have trouble with some moves outdoors and you can do it indoors with the problem replicated, then it's all mental.

A boulder is going to look more or less the same after years. In a gym, a wall will change many, many times after years. Tell me which one has more variety.

why dont you tell us exactly how many places and what routes you have climbed outdoors ...

you know to replicate even offwidth cracks alone youd have to change the texture and walls of the route in hte gyms every time ... theres overhanging offwidths, flared ones, constricting ones, #4/5/6/big bro sized, right/left leaning ones, corner ones, roof ones ... how often are you willing to rebuild the climbing gym?

use yr little head instead of being aggressively ignorant ...

said with utter and total contempt

ok so you're comparing the whole world of outside climbing to one gym? Gyms have cracks built into the wall sometimes and if you want to climb other crack types, go to other gyms. One gym alone can't replicate all of them. Just like if you want to climb different crack types outdoors, you go to different places. That's a no brainer.

so why don't you use your head before you arrogantly post next time.

i repeat ... TELLS US THE CLIMBS YOUVE DONE OUTDOORS ...

now we got to go to gyms all over the world because all the gyms in the world will have enough cracks to surpass the cracks outside ???

classic .... totally and utterly RC uber classic

like that matters? i've only been to a couple places like horse pens 40 but like i said already a boulder is going to look more or less the same after years. In a gym, a wall will change many, many times after years. Tell me which one has more variety.

I'm actually gonna answer your question.

Takes me about 35 min to get to v6's, about 200 of them nearby in Queen Creek, Arizona. If I add about 20 min to that I can reach about 25 more in the Sups.

The Moonstone at Groom Creek in Prescott is a solid v6 and its about 90 min away. Then Anorexic, one of the most classic roof lines in the world is just 2 hours away. Still just a day trip. And Hueco Tanks, the best bouldering area in the western hemisphere is a scant 6 hrs away which has another 100+ v6's.

These area's all have somewhere in the area of a trillion sq. ft. of climbable surface area, whats your gym, maybe 5,000-6,000 sq.ft.? Not even close dude.

So I just broke through the plateau i was on and i'm climbing v6's now after starting climbing about 8 months ago. I was wondering how long it usually takes most people to get to this point. My gym ranks the problems like horse pens 40 so you can get an idea of how hard it's rated

Daggers your a rockstar. You have definitely reached v6 faster than most people, seeing as most people don't reach v6 at all. Your physical skills are envied but many.

Your question is impertinent to 99% of the climbers out there. You see it's all about having fun, setting goals and achieving personal milestones. It's not about who's better, stronger or faster than me.
If I have had a super fun happy day on the rock with good friends then +1.
Send a project I've been working hard on +1.
Spend time around a campfire with a self absorbed rock god -1.

You see it's all well and good that you reach v6 but who cares, besides you. If you feel that your level of accomplishment is high then that's what it is. If you feel that it's not then try harder.

As for the plastic vs rock debate. It's plastic, no sane climber picks plastic when they can climb rock. Rock has way more variety then plastic ever will. There are route you can model in the gym but there are many more you can't.

My advice is to take a road trip and then post back.

Yeah sure, i want to become really godd but only because I want to be able to do this as a living for a while

Semi-Freudian slip?

I do agree with most of what you said. I view a good day as one that I felt good while climbing, not what I climbed. But basically what everyone on here thinks is that seeing how well your performance is compared to others isn't good.

Yeah sure, i want to become really [good climber] but only because I want to be able to do this as a living for a while (an almost impossible goal i know, but no reason not to try)

Now your understanding things.

OK now there is a goal. Unfortunately it's too early to tell if your world class material. You'll need to reach at least v14 to be world class. Can you reach it? Yes you can but only if you put in the hard work to get there.
There are a lot of climbers that can reach v6. Not most but many. The difference between a v14 and a v6 climber is dedication to the point where you can't do anything else including have a job. You'd be a full-time athlete and training/climbing would be your life. Now that is your goal except for the fact that your still not getting paid.

The world of professional athletes is a dirtbag living, especially for climbers. The factories will give you all the gear you can carry up the largest peak in the world. The thing they won't do is pay you $$. They have no need to. They will give you a job if your not a douche bag but they won't pay you to climb.
Now making videos and having your own line of t-shirts is where you can make money. And hey when you do something amazing, I'll buy a "Dagger The Destroyer" video, no problem.

I wish you the best of luck in perusing your goals.

Yeah sure, i want to become really godd but only because I want to be able to do this as a living for a while (an almost impossible goal i know, but no reason not to try), but I do it because I love it not because i'm "a self-absorbed rock god".

The original question was asked out of simple curiosity, not as an egotistical climber. And yeah i would climb outdoors just about any day if i had the chance, but sadly i don't. plus it tends to tear up my shoes pretty badly and i'm no millionaire! lol