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scrappy
Nov 19, 2001, 12:28 AM
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Ethical considerations aside, are there any people out there using it? Does it help? I know the machine (Alex Lowe) used it. I am just wondering if it would help me. I read an old climbing mag article that said it helps a alot for sport and bouldering.
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colin
Nov 19, 2001, 12:39 AM
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Creatine only increases the muscles ability to hold water. Making them look bigger. It also raises the fulcrum at which your muscle moves. That means it takes more strength to do the same movements.
That kind of helps your training but you're better off taking your vitamins and lifting\climbing to get stronger.
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thumper
Nov 19, 2001, 8:57 AM
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Creatine does a few good things for you, besides just making you look bigger. Firstly, creatine is manufactured by your body, as well as all other warm blooded creatures. You get a little extra with every portion of red meat you eat.
It works as a short-term energy source for your body. After the loading phase and into the maintenance phase your body is saturated with it, giving it an extra energy source during intense periods of exercise. It by itself does not make you stronger, however it may give you enough energy for that 1 last rep that you may not have been able to complete without it. That is what increases your strength.
Other than that, endurance athletes have shown decreased levels of lactic acid, and a feeling of not being as tired during their work-outs. As well as quicker recovery.
And their have been studies of a decrease in brain damage, and quicker regeneration of brain tissue after head injuries in people taking creatine.
You can expect to gain 5 pounds during the loading phase, and more weight gains during the maintenance phase. The initial weight gain will be water weight as creatine pulls extra water into your muscle cells during loading. You will maintain this extra weight as long as you correctly take the supplement.
The upside is that the water weight is gained intra-muscular, so you will look more pumped all the time.
You may experience some side effects, like cramping during the loading phase.
Hope this helps.
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scrappy
Nov 19, 2001, 3:13 PM
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I've read many articles on it already and researched the stuff, but i am looking for first hand experience. Anybody????
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wigglestick
Nov 19, 2001, 3:42 PM
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I tried it for a few months, about a year ago. My experience is that is does make you look bigger, which was not what I was looking for but I also gained about 7-8 pounds in just water retention. The only significant benefit is that I seemed to recover sooner and was not as sore the next day after a workout. However I get the same benefit from a tall glass of Endurox R4 after a workout. I noticed no other side effects. Although the long term is still yet to be seen. I don't use it anymore. Not enough bang for the buck. I noticed no performance, ie strength gains, the decreased recovery time was the only noticable benefit.
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eclarke98
Nov 19, 2001, 6:51 PM
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I used it a few years back for about a 15 month period and it worked for me. I did notice I could work out longer when doing lots of weight lifting. But unless you have a regular training program it's not going to do anything for you.
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rck_climber
Nov 19, 2001, 7:29 PM
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Here's a pretty detailed reply I made to the topic of using supplements.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=3321&forum=36
Mick
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jdcox_9
Nov 19, 2001, 8:47 PM
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I use creatine, but not so much for climbing. I use it mor for football.
Any way, yes it works for me.
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pollux
Nov 19, 2001, 10:01 PM
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Here's the deal with creatine. This comming from a personal trainer and a well known doctor (Dr. Wiles). There is no proof that creatine benefits your work out. It makes your muscle retain water as stated above. Some body types might benefit from this. From peronal experience it didn't do anything. Much less what it is supposed to do is make you gain mass, which makes your power to wieght ratio go down. Not the best thing for climbing. Stick to proven supplements that make you gain stregth but not mass.
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jstumpf
Nov 19, 2001, 11:30 PM
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Another thing to consider is that if you don't stay VERY well hydrated, Creatine will blow holes in your kidneys (OK, maybe not literally, but...), so unless you're willing to carry a hydrapack with you up the rock, you may be better off just doing it the old fashioned way.
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rck_climber
Nov 20, 2001, 12:11 AM
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Actaully, Tech, the increased water in your muscles carries more oxygen to the muscles and lets them recover faster. That's what these supplements are designed to do, let your muscles recover from a workout faster so that you can break them down more often.
The process of breaking them down and rebuilding them up again is what allows for strength and mass gain.
Unfortunately, you still have to drag the H2O to the crag as you'll still dehydrate just as fast.
If you take these supplements and don't workout, then, yes, you will get a big ass, instead, from the increased water in your system.
Mick
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talons05
Nov 20, 2001, 1:16 AM
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Ha ha. I have used creatine before and found that it helps a lot. You do have to keep up your level of physical activity. If you don't have a dedicated training program, and if you don't stick to it for a while, then of course you won't see results.
Aw
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thumper
Nov 20, 2001, 8:24 AM
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Pollux: regardless of the supplement, you will find studies stating that it does nothing for you. You will also find studies that say it does. Creatine IS a proven supplement and has been around for ages. Not every person will respond to any given supplent/medication in the same way, or respond at all. That just the way the human body is.
Anyone who is considering taking needs to understand that it is a strength building supplement. If your workouts are mild to moderate, you may not see any noticeable results because your body isn't using what it naturally produces, much less the extra you're giving it. If you're not pushing your body to it's limits, then don't take any kind of supplement. You'll just be wasting your money.
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thumper
Nov 27, 2001, 11:26 AM
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Yeah, Thumper knows his shit! To be honest I know more about weights than climbing, but I'm catching up fast!
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mountainmike
Nov 28, 2001, 4:59 AM
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Right now I am using a creatine supplement and I have had good results with it. It hasn't given me any huge results and I don't know if I would have noticed at a lower level of training. So, for me personally I think it is a great supplement.
I can't believe that some of you guys are saying that there is no "scientific evidence" to support creatine use. There are tons of studies out there. Just do a search on the internet and you will probably find a ton of them.
Your bodies main anarobic energy source is "ATP" the "TP" stands for tri-phosphate. What creatine does(if I remeber correctly) is it helps your body create "ADP" the "DP" meaning di-phosphate. The "ADP" is then converted by your body into "ATP" which can be used by the body at a very quick but short rate because it doesn't need oxygen.
Creatine has a lot of other benefits but I believe that this is how the main part of the supplement works. One other consideration I have read about and I think is important is age. I remember reading some study that said something about using creatine before your body has finished developing ( around age 18 ) can do thing like stunt your grouth and lessen you ultamate muscle growth potential. I am not sure that the study was correct but it was enough for me. I didn't start using creatine until I turned 21. . . this last year. Well I hope that this combined with all the other good info (and in my opinion it wasn't all good info) will help you out some.
Michael
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rocmonkey
Nov 28, 2001, 7:42 AM
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Taking creatine will not make you climb better...it will make you LOOK better in the end.
You put on weight when using creatine and as a climber I am trying to lose weight, not gain any.
Keep training and leave the creatine be...
breathe stone
R C
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roshi
Nov 28, 2001, 8:05 AM
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The judge is out when it comes to Creatine. I have read alot of reasearch on it and a lot of bull####. Some articles are just another marketing tool by Creatine pushers. Have a look, in articles, at where the publishers are getting their info from. Nothing is better than hard training and a balanced diet.
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bart
Nov 28, 2001, 8:21 AM
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I agree, Roshi. I don`t see any good reason why someone would take Creatine. I consider it as drugs and food supplements. I don`t find those necessary for anyone, so I would`t risk taking such non-natural junk.
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thumper
Nov 28, 2001, 12:03 PM
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Bart! Creatine is not "non-natural". Your body produces about 2grams per day, every day of your life. Every little piece of red or white meat you eat contains creatine. No, creatine will not make you a better climber. It won't make you better at football, baseball, hockey, or any other sport. What it will do is enable you to train a litle harder for a little longer, which will make you stronger.
There has never been an elite climber that was remarked as having increadibly puny arms and the complete inability to carry his own body weight up a set of stairs. They are remarked on for having a strong body and arms and great endurance.
Don't get me wrong. I AM NOT advocating that everyone should take creatine. I discourage 90% of the people I train from taking creatine or any other supplement with the exception of a little extra protein and lots of water. I discourage them because their work-outs do not require them, and because their body does not need them until they are more advanced in their workouts.
All I am saying is that if you choose to use or to not use any supplement, do it for the right reason with the right information in hand. There is an increadible amount of mis-information available, and most of it is spread by word of mouth by people who have no practical knowledge or experience. Before trying anything new, talk to people who have the experience needed to tell the good from the bad, and the knowledge to use it correctly.
You would not (hopefully) let some-one take you on a route because he once read "An idiots guide to climbing" and feels he knows what to do. You look for an experience climber to lead you or at least give good beta.
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squeeks
Dec 1, 2001, 2:14 AM
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with out lots of water intake, doesnt it dehydrate you? something i was always curious about.
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fusion
Dec 1, 2001, 2:38 AM
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When takin creatine drink lots of water.. nothing bad will happen if you don't it's just a lot more effective when you do. I took creatine a year ago while on a weight training program, and it helped me break through a plateau in my training. Whenever takin any suppliment read as much as you can on it.
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rrooclkln
Aug 30, 2007, 5:16 PM
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I used creatine for approximately 2 years. Within those 2 years of weight training, LAX, snowboarding and healthy eating I went from a lean and cut 155 to a massive and bulky 180 frame. I went from benching 180 in 4 sets of 10 reps to 220 in 4 set/10 rep. It did help with adding longevity to my workout which could've correlated to the strength but the cost both in pocket and health afterwards I believe were not worth it. I've been off it for 3 years with a more cross training workout regime and I've dropped to 165 with some str loss in some muscle groups but I believe more harmonious body look and performance. My folks are both doctors and after they informed me of the renal and liver problems that could be caused with creatine loading along with the research I conducted my motto now is just keep it natural.
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NSFW
Aug 30, 2007, 5:26 PM
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Can someone blow the dust off these posts so I can read them? thanks.
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bcrigby
Feb 9, 2013, 2:11 AM
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NSFW wrote: Can someone blow the dust off these posts so I can read them? thanks.
This sorely needs to be done!
Creatine does not cause liver or renal problems, but this is a huge piece of misinformation that keeps circulating akin to the similar rumor that protein causes kidney damage. If you already have kidney problems, then consult your doctor, otherwise there is no risk associated with creatine.
Creatine will add 2-5 lbs to your weight because it associates with water. It will also make you last longer both on the wall and in total during a session because you add another fuel. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone to use, but I do believe that a significant portion of climbers, especially those who focus more on bouldering or single-pitch sport would benefit strongly from it.
A final interesting note associated with creatine is that those who supplement with it tend to injure themselves less often than athletes who do not supplement. Keeping the muscles strong means less potential for a failing muscle to put undo strain on other less-well-equipped parts of the body. There are no climbing-specific studies on this, but there's no reason why it shouldn't apply to climbers as well as the general athletic population.
Bottom line, creatine is not going to cause you any damage, and it might improve your training and performance, but don't expect it to solve problems associated with an otherwise poor diet!
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macherry
Feb 9, 2013, 4:03 AM
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bcrigby wrote: NSFW wrote: Can someone blow the dust off these posts so I can read them? thanks. ^ This sorely needs to be done! Creatine does not cause liver or renal problems, but this is a huge piece of misinformation that keeps circulating akin to the similar rumor that protein causes kidney damage. If you already have kidney problems, then consult your doctor, otherwise there is no risk associated with creatine. Creatine will add 2-5 lbs to your weight because it associates with water. It will also make you last longer both on the wall and in total during a session because you add another fuel. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone to use, but I do believe that a significant portion of climbers, especially those who focus more on bouldering or single-pitch sport would benefit strongly from it. A final interesting note associated with creatine is that those who supplement with it tend to injure themselves less often than athletes who do not supplement. Keeping the muscles strong means less potential for a failing muscle to put undo strain on other less-well-equipped parts of the body. There are no climbing-specific studies on this, but there's no reason why it shouldn't apply to climbers as well as the general athletic population. Bottom line, creatine is not going to cause you any damage, and it might improve your training and performance, but don't expect it to solve problems associated with an otherwise poor diet!
first post and you dug this thread out!?!?
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