I have often climbed at Sandrock (AL), weekend home to what seems to be millions of drunken rednecks. Climbers, including myself, have put in many hours picking up beer bottles and condoms, removing spray paint (where possible), etc.
Most of the routes are for gear, and the top anchors are mostly not visible. If there were no climbers there, it would be a public sewer.
I'm proud to be part of a community that cares about leaving no trace, even if we cannot always do so.
... Sandrock (AL)....... If there were no climbers there, it would be a public sewer.
Not true.
I remember climbing at Sandrock before it was a climbing "destination", before there was a single bolt. It looked quite a bit different then than it does now. There is absolutely no doubt that it looked better then than it does now.
Probably most people nowadays think the eroded trails between the rocks has always looked like that. That's not so. Many of those areas had good soil and plants growing where now there are none (and the soil has completely washed away from some). That change was clearly due to climbers.
It is true that the place had some graffiti and trash before it became popular with climbers, and it is true that climbers have taken some steps to improve some aspects of the place, but on the whole there is no escaping the harsh reality that the place would have been better off without climbers. But I would not define those climber impacts as vandalism.
In reply to:
...the top anchors are mostly not visible.
??? There are bolts everywhere. There are chains. There are rust stains running down the rock from said chains. Again, not vandalism, but a visual impact for sure.
In reply to:
..I'm proud to be part of a community that cares about leaving no trace, even if we cannot always do so.
I think on the whole we can do better in that regard, and hopefully we will.
as our population grows, many steps have been taken, and still more need to be taken, to create a hyper efficient realm where the ecosystems can continue to thrive whilst man still exists. and some of these steps are irrigation and electrical grids.
as our population grows, many steps have been taken, and still more need to be taken, to create a hyper efficient realm where the ecosystems can continue to thrive whilst man still exists. and some of these steps are irrigation and electrical grids.
I think any reasonable future "hyper efficient realm" would necessarily exclude rock climbing. It's not the most efficient way to get to the top of the hill. In fact, it is often the most difficult; that's what makes it fun.
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?
So, when a house gets built, rocks, moss, trees and animals are disturbed...acquisition of land for a new use. Yet my response is somehow, "off topic"?
Likewise, when I shit, or drive a car, or purchase potable water from my local water authority, moss and trees are disturbed. Is this vandalism? I think the question is very much on topic.
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.
Well played.
You resort to namecalling, a common fallback for those who have no real argument.
You consider me as having "hostility", yet you show up on a rockclimbing forum asking if rockclimbing is vandalism. Psychologists might consider that "projection".
Try contributing something useful, rather than wasting time. You might actually find some fulfillment.
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.
If I was a mod, this "poll" would go to the campground.
....have put in many hours picking up....condoms....
ewwwwwwwww!
Whenever we would do campground or park clean ups as kids, I never knew what my dad meant when he said 'Watch out! A raincoat!' and swoop in and pick up the unseen.
I know what that means now, icky. My dad was a champ.
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.
Well you certainly succeeded in outing 1 immature asshole.
Wait, I take that back. You used a Peter Pan reference. You don't make the asshole rank, you're just a dingleberry.
I must believe that anyone critical if climbers at sandrock never saw it before climbers organized the cleanup weekends. Once I saw a pickup arrive and a local family of five got out with a picnic basket. As they started into the woods their little boy yelled "Wait Daddy. You forgot the spray paint!"
Yesterday at Haycock Mtn (PA), some lady hiking asked to use some of our chalk. we asked why. she responded "to cover up some graffiti". We said, "yeah, those swastikas all over the boulders on the trail are pretty offensive, but this chalk will wash away". She says, " i didn't mean those, i meant the anti-god graffiti", referring to "I (heart) Satan".
That reminds me, next time i'm up there, i need to bring a can of spray paint to cover up the swastikas, and to put exclaimation marks at the end of "I (heart) satan.
Apparently the lady is cool wtih genocide and her local neo-nazi faction. POS hick. and yes, i am one of the chosen people, so F her even more.
You did say, "Lady"? Don't these people realize that the Nazis also killed Christians...and performed abortions in their "research"? It is easier to fix ugly than ignorant.
....That reminds me, next time i'm up there, i need to bring a can of spray paint to cover up the swastikas, and to put exclaimation marks at the end of "I (heart) satan....
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?
The impression I get is that you should consider the actions of any living species to be an act of vandalism. What's the point?
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