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Lifting weights and the effect on climbing
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bowlie


Aug 31, 2014, 12:33 PM
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Re: [UpToTheOzone] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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I am new to climbing, so bear that in mind when reading this, but I do know a thing or two about weight training. I started when I was about 15, and if we really do learn from our mistakes then I have learned alot.

The single biggest thing I can stress with weight training is get the form down quick. Technique is just as important in strength training as it is rock climbing.

Second thing I would say is be smart with exercises. Learn why your doing something, instead of just doing it. I do plenty of exercises, but I do them for different reasons and approach them in different ways. I do the Bench Press as my main upper body pressing movement, for strength. I also do flyes, but not to gain strength. I do flyes because of a specific shoulder injury which they help. Stick to the 'meat and potatoes' exercises to begin with. Bench Press, Press, Dips, Barbell Rows, Chinups, Squats and Deadlifts. You can add in assistance exercises too, but you have to add them in for a reason, not just because. Stay away from machines.

Thirdly, you wont get 'bulky' just from strength training. It comes completely down to diet. If gaining size is something you want to do then great, eat loads and you will. If you dont want to gain size just watch what you eat. If you dont have the calories to build muscle and size you wont get any bigger, easy.

Strength training will make you stronger, which I presume will help climbing. At very least Bench Pressing will prevent a push pull imbalance, and deadlifts and squats are amazing back and core exercises. Maybe focus a bit more of your training on pulling exercises, like pullups. Towel pullups are a good variation that will help your overall pulling strength and your grip strength.

Programs like starting strength, stronglifts and 5/3/1 are all great programs and good inspiration. Good luck


(This post was edited by bowlie on Aug 31, 2014, 12:42 PM)


DouglasHunter


Sep 2, 2014, 5:22 PM
Post #27 of 33 (4014 views)
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Re: [flesh] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:

4. Hang boards. There's a study around somewhere that shows triple the strength increase doing dead hangs on a larger hold with added weight vs only going to smaller holds as you progress. All you need is a edge. 10 seconds till failure is optimal based on studies. Three sets at first with two to three minute rests working up to five sets. Hang boards are cheaper than a gym membership.[unquote]

Hey flesh can you dig up a reference to that hang board study? I don't have it in my binders and I am not familiar with it.


flesh


Sep 3, 2014, 10:37 AM
Post #28 of 33 (3987 views)
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
flesh wrote:

4. Hang boards. There's a study around somewhere that shows triple the strength increase doing dead hangs on a larger hold with added weight vs only going to smaller holds as you progress. All you need is a edge. 10 seconds till failure is optimal based on studies. Three sets at first with two to three minute rests working up to five sets. Hang boards are cheaper than a gym membership.[unquote]

Hey flesh can you dig up a reference to that hang board study? I don't have it in my binders and I am not familiar with it.

Lopez-Rivera, E., et. al. (2012): To my knowledge this is the only proper assessment of fingerboard training with actual rock climbers. There are many nice things about this study.
1. The climbers are experienced, having climbed between 8a and 8c.
2. The test is on a fingerboard and uses the half crimp grip.
3. It's a longitudinal study over 14 weeks with training periods and test periods.

In this study climbers were split into two groups training on different edge sizes using a half crimp grip. The research question asked is whether training a larger edge with weight added and then training a smaller edge at body weight (MAW-MED) produces different results in terms of strength and endurance relative to hanging the small edge first then hanging the larger edge with added weight (MED-MAW). One group started out with an 18mm edge on which they would add weight until they couldn't hang for a perceived 13 seconds (MAW). The other group hung at body weight from successively smaller edges until the edge depth was too small to hang for the perceived 13 seconds (MED). In both MED and MAW groups the time actually hung from the edge was 10 seconds. I believe the idea is to reduce fatigue for the testing period. The participants are asked to judge whether they think they could have held the hold for 13 seconds. If the answer is yes then weight is increased (edge size decreased) if the answer is no then this is the weight that is used for the training (or edge size used for training). The training then consists of two fingerboard sessions a week for both groups. The MAW group performs 3-5 sets of single hangs on an 18mm edge for 10 seconds using the weight determined previously The MED group performs 3-5 sets of singles on the edge size determined in assessment for 10 seconds.


Even though the study was designed to test order of training, the take home results are that the maximum strength gains (max weight hanging from a 15mm edge for 10 seconds) in the week 5 test are significantly larger in those participants training on a larger edge with added weight (+9.6%) against those training on a smaller edge at body weight (+2.1%).


DouglasHunter


Sep 3, 2014, 1:18 PM
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Re: [flesh] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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Flesh,

Thanks, I didn't realize you were talking about Eva's study. I do have that one. thanks for the notes, I'll do a more careful read of it now.


MED


Sep 6, 2014, 5:58 PM
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Re: [flesh] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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I don't have the Lopez study in front of me right now, but my recollection is that the climbers participated in significant training in addition to the hangboard exercises and that there were no controls in place to standardize this other training. Makes the results substantially less robust I would think.

Furthermore, my recollection was that all groups ended up weaker on the hangboard test on the post-measure after detraining for a couple of weeks. Hard for me to understand ending up weaker after 10 weeks of training.

I'll try to look at my copy of the study and correct my somewhat hazy recollections when I get a chance.


MalcolmX


Sep 7, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Re: [MED] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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Well, it is not a big surprise that the group who trained with added weight was better at the exercise with added weight. If the final test would have been, to hang on a small hold with only bodyweight, the results would probably have been different.


(This post was edited by MalcolmX on Sep 7, 2014, 11:13 AM)


climber511


Sep 23, 2014, 9:38 AM
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Re: [MalcolmX] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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One of the things the weight room is very good for is addressing imbalances in strength across different joints. Climbing - like any other sport - overdevelops some areas and sets one up somewhat for injury down the road. A well designed resistance training program can address this more easily than "just climbing" training. If you look at climbing as a whole - different styles such as Alpine Rock with more pack carrying etc should have different training methods than say sport climbing. Training should fit the task for which it is designed - and weight training should be a part of that. Not for a one rep max power lifting goal oriented style but a routine designed for a climber.

The term "weight training" can and often is used for a wide range of resistance training methods - some of course better than others for the goals of climbers.


skelldify


Sep 23, 2014, 9:55 AM
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Re: [MalcolmX] Lifting weights and the effect on climbing [In reply to]
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Exactly! I kept reading the results, thinking "Am I missing something??"

This study is frustratingly inconclusive. They had the chance to actually discover something useful, but they screwed it up by testing the wrong thing at the end.


(This post was edited by skelldify on Sep 23, 2014, 9:57 AM)

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