Forums: Climbing Information: General:
Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for General

Premier Sponsor:

 


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 11:20 AM
Post #1 of 53 (9152 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Aug 6, 2013, 11:38 AM)


edge


Aug 6, 2013, 11:46 AM
Post #2 of 53 (9126 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.


dynosore


Aug 6, 2013, 1:10 PM
Post #3 of 53 (9073 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO

You handled it well. I would have written down his license plate # in case anything happened while I was away from the car.

Some people just aren't worth arguing with. I had two guys threaten me while I was ice fishing one time. They came at me with ice spuds. Didn't like that my styrofoam minnow bucket was pink. They were drunk and were looking for trouble. I kid you not. I let them know I was armed and that was that. Packed up and left.


lena_chita
Moderator

Aug 6, 2013, 1:52 PM
Post #4 of 53 (9050 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


I think you handled it well, and I would have done the same. or tried to.

But this is where being a female is both an advantage and a disadvantage, so in some way it would have depended on who i was with. It can go either way. If it were me and another girl, the guy might have been more inclined to be nice to us and we would have been fine parking there, and not too worried about the car (but possibly worried about coming back in the afternoon to a campsite full of drunken guys). Or he might have decided that we were an easy target to intimidate, and it would have gotten worse, and I would have left.

If I were with a male partner, the guy would have directed all his questions/aggression at my partner, instead of me (the redneck-types always do), and the decision of what to do would have been up to this partner, really, bc he were the one under pressure.


And a funny story: On the way to TenSleep this summer, we were following my partner's new GPS, which took us a different way on the last ~1.5 hour of the drive, compared to how we went to TenSleep last year. We were driving on these little unpaved country roads, when a pickup truck started chasing us.
The truck caught up with us, and started running us off the road. We pulled off on the sid,e and hte guy jumped out of the truck, super-angry. Turns out that we were driving through his ranch and he was VERY unhappy about it (even though GPS was saying that it is just a county road).

Well picture this: I am with a guy who has fake-blond hair he had just bleached before the trip, and he is wearing bright-color T-shirt and manpris, and sunglasses, and looking I guess like a very metrosexual that DEFINITELY doesn't belong on the ranch. I really thought the rancher guy was going to beat him bloody! Or shoot him, or something...

But my partner is a naturally-friendly guy who acted non-threateningly, apologized profusely, explained that we were not local (as if that needed to be said!), apologized again, and again, and the rancher mellowed out and told us that we should turn around and go a different way b.c that was shorter.

And all the rancher said to me was "G-day m'am" with a tip of the hat at the end. Until then, his business was with the dude, and the dude only. I might as well have been a decoration.


Syd


Aug 6, 2013, 4:39 PM
Post #5 of 53 (8994 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 300

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

A thousand variants of that story must be repeated every day. Just a couple of days ago I was getting our toddler out of my car after parking and a fellow walked up to me and asked if I could move my car forward. I refused and told him to just park in the space in front of me.
If you car is in one piece when you return, you did the right thing.


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 4:40 PM
Post #6 of 53 (8994 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [edge] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.

Ha! That's awesome. In my case I was just out sport wanking for the day, and I don't think a quickdraw is quite as intimidating. And fortunately, no violence was threatened. It was only after I'd started up the hike I started to think about what might come next.

GO


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 4:44 PM
Post #7 of 53 (8991 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [lena_chita] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


I think you handled it well, and I would have done the same. or tried to.

But this is where being a female is both an advantage and a disadvantage, so in some way it would have depended on who i was with. It can go either way. If it were me and another girl, the guy might have been more inclined to be nice to us and we would have been fine parking there, and not too worried about the car (but possibly worried about coming back in the afternoon to a campsite full of drunken guys). Or he might have decided that we were an easy target to intimidate, and it would have gotten worse, and I would have left.

If I were with a male partner, the guy would have directed all his questions/aggression at my partner, instead of me (the redneck-types always do), and the decision of what to do would have been up to this partner, really, bc he were the one under pressure.


And a funny story: On the way to TenSleep this summer, we were following my partner's new GPS, which took us a different way on the last ~1.5 hour of the drive, compared to how we went to TenSleep last year. We were driving on these little unpaved country roads, when a pickup truck started chasing us.
The truck caught up with us, and started running us off the road. We pulled off on the sid,e and hte guy jumped out of the truck, super-angry. Turns out that we were driving through his ranch and he was VERY unhappy about it (even though GPS was saying that it is just a county road).

Well picture this: I am with a guy who has fake-blond hair he had just bleached before the trip, and he is wearing bright-color T-shirt and manpris, and sunglasses, and looking I guess like a very metrosexual that DEFINITELY doesn't belong on the ranch. I really thought the rancher guy was going to beat him bloody! Or shoot him, or something...

But my partner is a naturally-friendly guy who acted non-threateningly, apologized profusely, explained that we were not local (as if that needed to be said!), apologized again, and again, and the rancher mellowed out and told us that we should turn around and go a different way b.c that was shorter.

And all the rancher said to me was "G-day m'am" with a tip of the hat at the end. Until then, his business was with the dude, and the dude only. I might as well have been a decoration.

Yep. Mr Redneck treated both my wife and his own as if they were invisible, and directed everything at me.

Funny story about your drive to Tensleep! My first time up there I made the mistake of trusting our GPS. This was five years ago or so, and it just dumped us in an old gravel mine. We lost a bunch of driving time, but no run-ins with pissed off ranchers!

GO


5.samadhi


Aug 6, 2013, 5:16 PM
Post #8 of 53 (8973 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 31, 2011
Posts: 98

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

strapping on a pistol after exiting your truck would have worked well.

I guess I don't often have trouble with "rednecks" since I am somewhat of a redneck...if I want to appear that way.


(This post was edited by 5.samadhi on Aug 6, 2013, 5:16 PM)


curt


Aug 6, 2013, 6:27 PM
Post #9 of 53 (8945 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18273

Re: [edge] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.

Glad that turned out OK for you, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend your tactic to others. The correlation between redneck-ed-ness and being armed is pretty high and you don't want to be the guy who brings an ice axe to a gunfight. Cool

Curt


6pacfershur


Aug 6, 2013, 7:29 PM
Post #10 of 53 (8909 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 254

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

recognize the red-flag warnings.....I would have talked to the guy before I parked, get an idea of his mental state: considering the jerryspringerfuckyou attitude of 'mericans, poor communication skills and the number of guns out there, cooperation and consideration may be a thing of the past......


milesenoell


Aug 6, 2013, 11:32 PM
Post #11 of 53 (8858 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Other than taking license plate numbers I would do about as you did. I try to hit that sweet spot between saying too little and starting a conversation that doesn't go anywhere good.


chadnsc


Aug 7, 2013, 5:59 AM
Post #12 of 53 (8806 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I would have done the same thing you did cracklover.


Partner cracklover


Aug 7, 2013, 8:58 AM
Post #13 of 53 (8749 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [chadnsc] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, so to finish the story.... I was only a couple hundred yards away, so I went back to the car to get my tape. Pulled my car a little further into the weeds, wrote down his license plate just to be on the safe side (after hiking back up the hill - would be rude to do that in front of him), and had a very nice day of climbing with my wife.

Returned at the end of the day to find their whole rig gone, and my car untouched. I guess his buddies never showed up, or they got rained on and bailed, or they moved to a spot closer to the dirtbike trails.

Hope we had nothing to do with them bailing, but if so, so be it.

GO


budman


Aug 7, 2013, 3:00 PM
Post #14 of 53 (8654 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 170

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.


billl7


Aug 7, 2013, 5:52 PM
Post #15 of 53 (8614 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890

Re: [budman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Bud, The world needs more people like you.


dr_feelgood


Aug 7, 2013, 6:16 PM
Post #16 of 53 (8605 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060

Re: [budman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

budman wrote:
Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.

Yes. Beer diplomacy is the key to disarming rednecks. Never leave home without a sixer.


jt512


Aug 7, 2013, 9:17 PM
Post #17 of 53 (8569 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21904

Re: [budman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

budman wrote:
Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.

I think your approach straddles a fine line between diplomacy and Stockholm syndrome.


majid_sabet


Aug 7, 2013, 10:40 PM
Post #18 of 53 (8550 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8390

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

 
Unhappy rednecks


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Aug 8, 2013, 5:07 PM)


budman


Aug 8, 2013, 10:50 AM
Post #19 of 53 (8438 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 170

Re: [jt512] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Don't think so at least from my view point. Have decent education but have worked in the world of hard labor. Hope to think that I see the best in people and have in some small way the ability to bring the best out in people, especially when it comes to climbing.

Believe I also live in the real world as I was born in a major city and grew up seeing things that just are bad. Must admit I trust people to a point but will protect my family. Hopefully I keep an open mind and meet new people with out stereotyping.

When people are in a group you encounter the gang mentality but when you meet face to face, one on one, people are generally just decent people trying to have fun.


markc


Aug 8, 2013, 11:07 AM
Post #20 of 53 (8430 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm not a fan of confrontation. I'd probably explain that I was just there for the day, and that I'd be gone long before his friends needed to set camp for the night. I'd offer to move a bit to accommodate his friends, but only do so if I'm sure I'm not getting stuck in the process.

I'd also explain that we're just climbing a short distance away, and that they can always find me if there's a problem. It shows I'm open to working things out, while letting them know I'm not going to be out of earshot if they decide to mess with my car.

I think budman's suggestion to see if they want to check out climbing is great, so long as you're not going to feel put out if they actually take you up on it.


distantThunder


Aug 8, 2013, 12:22 PM
Post #21 of 53 (8400 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 4, 2012
Posts: 43

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

you handled it right.
and next time do this ... just say "Yeah no problem. But I've got this friend called dT who's gonna join me and he's a biker. Make sure you leave some room for his cruiser - because that dude is irrational and he's gonna be pissed if there's not enough space."

Hahahaha!
dT


(This post was edited by distantThunder on Aug 8, 2013, 7:43 PM)


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 15, 2013, 1:30 PM
Post #22 of 53 (8078 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [distantThunder] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me, and so I am sure I would have blasted my mouth off and then spent the day worrying my van was going to have been trifled with. Or, if I was smart, I would have blasted my mouth off and then left, because I knew my van would get trifled with.

One of the reasons I HAD to leave NYC was that I refused to back down to assholes.

One time I was walking Teddy on the sidewalk and a guy is heading toward us. It is a thin sidewalk, and it is also trash day, but if BOTH of us moved to the sides, we would fit just fine. I move over, short rope Teddy and tell him to move aside and let the man walk through. The dude moves to the side we are on and stops dead in front of me.

I said "Excuse me. We moved over for you. There's plenty of room." He gets IN my face, and in this horrifyingly quiet voice, says "I could kill you, you cunt." And I knew that if I wasn't on a street with too much potential for witnesses, he very well might have.

Did that stop me from stepping back, yelling "Get the hell out of my face, you crazy asshole. Who do you think you are. You could kill me, eh. Well fuck you dude!" And I picked Teddy up and pushed right past him and flipped "What a funking small-dicked asshole"(or similar) as I did it.


Another time, this man was harrassing a lady who was sitting on the median bench on Broadway, up about 103rd Street, She looked so tired, and he looked like he was proselytizing...

She looked down and said "No."

The dude gets in my face, has cold, cold eyes of steel and whispers. "I was a Marine, and I could kill you a hundred different ways. Mind your own business, bitch."

Too late, I realized this was a pimp getting on the case of some poor tired hooker who must have run off or something(she wasn't dressed like a hooker). But do you think that stopped me? Noooo....

But, back to your redneck situation - IF I was with a guy, I would NOT mouth off, because I know that puts the gentleman in a very bad position. I may be stupid, but at least I know better than to get a guy friend beaten up for my stupidity.


milesenoell


Aug 15, 2013, 2:20 PM
Post #23 of 53 (8050 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

At the risk of sermonizing: Escalation rarely yields good results. Escalating from a position of relative weakness especially so. Skillful redirection is the path I aspire to and would recommend.


rolfr


Aug 15, 2013, 8:57 PM
Post #24 of 53 (7949 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 23, 2009
Posts: 15

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

There is more to the story in what you didn't say. Was there any inconvenient parking? Did you park there just to stake your claim as an entitled climber?

You are pretty quick to stereo type people, beers going, techo music, fire burning, must be boulderers!

Lighten up Dude! Crack a six pack when you approach those folks and they may see you as a friend instead of a dick!

I hope your attitude was worth the sugar they most surely dumped into your gas tank!


scotchie


Aug 15, 2013, 11:01 PM
Post #25 of 53 (7935 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 30, 2004
Posts: 261

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Ever since reading "Verbal Judo" years ago, l have been intrigued by the idea of de-escalating dangerous situations without using force. However, I haven't had much need to do so.

Resources for learning and practicing non-violent communication styles of conflict resolution are scarcely available. Yet it seems like this should be the direction that society needs to move.

Some specific things to try are to listen to their concerns. The more people get their feelings off their chest, the less hostile they become. I would actively encourage them to express themselves until they begin to calm down, then share my point of view and use that as a basis for negotiation. If others are acting angry, there is a natural tendency to copy their body language and tone of voice, but that only escalates the situation. To de-escalate its required to be calm. It's possible to call them out on it - "I don't understand why you're acting so upset. I'm just trying to park for my climb, just like I always do". Confronted with the ridiculousness of their behavior, most people will back down. I wasnt there in the specific situation, but in general, just because someone's acting upset or is a "redneck" doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be violent. If there seems to be a serious threat of real violence, either have a plan to defend yourself or get the hell out of dodge, or avoid the situation in the first place. I would probably be doing one of the latter in that case.


milesenoell


Aug 15, 2013, 11:42 PM
Post #26 of 53 (5079 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 16, 2013, 7:32 AM
Post #27 of 53 (5050 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Aug 16, 2013, 7:33 AM)


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 8:27 AM
Post #28 of 53 (5036 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."

Being a woman has nothing to with it except for making you feel like your actions are somehow heroic when in fact the same actions from a man would be seen as being in just as poor taste. Flinging insults at a person to "point out their disgusting behavior" is never likely to cause the behavior change you seek. You clearly left out a piece of the second story and whatever it was you did to precipitate the reaction from the man you decided was a pimp, but nothing you described seems to suggest that you did anything directly to offer the woman any actual help.

I would not "duck and cover" in those situations, but rather than using aggression and defiance I would focus my attention on the changes I wish to see.

I can certainly see that by being a tall man I can get away with saying less to assert my position than a small woman, but the approach you seem to be advocating smacks strongly of the militant feminism that I have been surrounded by much of my life. Reflecting the negative aspects of domineering men doesn't lead to progress; it's regression to the mean.

Be wiser than that.


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 16, 2013, 8:43 AM
Post #29 of 53 (5031 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Being a woman had EVERYTHING to do with that man on the sidewalk getting in my face and calling me a cunt, among other things. Let me remind me that you were not there, and I was....

Could it possibly be that your having been "surrounded much of your life" by "militant feminists" might be triggering a reaction not completely rational here?

As well. I haven't advocated anything. I am not suggesting anyone else behave the way I do. But, let's agree to disagree here. There's really no need to continue this particular conversation.



As a funny off tangent(to the thread, not the person whose post I responded to)...the other day we were doing trailwork and these three climbers were quite chatty. It took a while for them to get off the ground, but eventually they did, and conversation continued with pretty much every move.

The leader gets to a belay, calls down that he is anchored along with some other stuff. More talk amongst the two on the ground, then something from above and so on...

Then, one of the grounders yells up in a voice which seems he is giving a climbing command. It's not "Climbing" or "Up Rope" or similar. He yells up "Phone!"

The dude up top goes "What?" "PHONE!"

"WHAT?" he repeats.

"PHONE! ANSWER YOUR PHONE."


In my poetically licensed version, the leader would have finally replied Phone OFF." But in reality he answered the phone and the grounder told him that he had been texting when he was waiting and didn't know if he was on belay yet....


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 8:44 AM
Post #30 of 53 (5026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."

Being a woman has nothing to with it except for making you feel like your actions are somehow heroic when in fact the same actions from a man would be seen as being in just as poor taste.

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 9:08 AM
Post #31 of 53 (5006 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 9:20 AM
Post #32 of 53 (4998 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
Being a woman had EVERYTHING to do with that man on the sidewalk getting in my face and calling me a cunt, among other things. Let me remind me that you were not there, and I was....

Could it possibly be that your having been "surrounded much of your life" by "militant feminists" might be triggering a reaction not completely rational here?

I consider myself to be a feminist, but I draw the line when it comes to what I regard as angry feminism. I have seen far too many women who are bright enough to find a better path allow their anger and resentment (to very real slights) to take control, acting out what in a man would be recognized as a "little man" complex. This pugnacious demeanor precipitates many unnecessary confrontations.

Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 9:56 AM
Post #33 of 53 (4979 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.

And how many times has someone larger than you, unprovoked, used the bulk of their body to prevent you from passing by while either attempting to grope you, threatening you, or saying something crass to you? Just saying that one in four women has been sexually assaulted (never mind assaulted) within her lifetime. No matter how zen-master you want to go about it, bad shit happens to us that may not happen to you.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:01 AM
Post #34 of 53 (4974 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:05 AM
Post #35 of 53 (4968 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.

And how many times has someone larger than you, unprovoked, used the bulk of their body to prevent you from passing by while either attempting to grope you, threatening you, or saying something crass to you? Just saying that one in four women has been sexually assaulted (never mind assaulted) within her lifetime. No matter how zen-master you want to go about it, bad shit happens to us that may not happen to you.

While I readily acknowledge that the playing field is far from even, I would point out that I have been the target of intimidation from strangers on multiple occasions. Bad shit happens to us all.

Ever had a gun jammed in your mouth while someone choked you? I have.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:20 AM
Post #36 of 53 (4956 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:26 AM
Post #37 of 53 (4952 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
Ever had a gun jammed in your mouth while someone choked you? I have.

Sorry that happened to you. Regardless, women are more often the target of violence. Bad shit happens to us more often.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:30 AM
Post #38 of 53 (4947 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.

I was referring to instance #1. And I still don't blame her for speaking up during instance #2. Too many of us are taught to be submissive and to not intervene when we see something wrong.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:34 AM
Post #39 of 53 (4944 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

For the first situation happiegrrrl described, I read a lot into the dialog she described. "We moved over for you, there is plenty of room" strikes me as a dig-in-your-heels type of statement that I suspect was delivered with all the defiance it implies. Thinking that your response is going to change the behavior of a guy who seems to be leading with antisocial behavior in a momentary interaction is foolish in my eyes. There are lots of jerks in the world and there is little benefit in antagonizing them.

Storming off spitting vitriol just demonstrates to people like that that they can indeed get under your skin and "win" the confrontation. Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 16, 2013, 10:35 AM)


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:44 AM
Post #40 of 53 (4940 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:54 AM
Post #41 of 53 (4931 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.

I was referring to instance #1. And I still don't blame her for speaking up during instance #2. Too many of us are taught to be submissive and to not intervene when we see something wrong.

It was not my intent to "blame" her for speaking up. It was my intention to point out that had she been more thoughtful she could have had more positive impact with less confrontation; and the unpredictable negative consequences of starting a conflict without the power to control the escalation.

In both cases she described I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked. If you present yourself as a target, it's foolhardy to rely on their fear of outside consequences to restrain them. Intoxication, mental illness or stresses a stranger can't perceive could have easily have led the men to lash out physically.

I believe there are better places and better ways to bet your life for your principles.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:56 AM
Post #42 of 53 (4927 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

I disagree.

I think of the old maxim that one should not bother trying to wrestle a pig. You both end up dirty and the pig doesn't mind.

Antisocial people know that they win when they drag you into their kind of interaction. They see you lose your cool, while most of the time they are much more in control of their own emotions since this is a place they have much more experience in.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 16, 2013, 11:01 AM)


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
Post #43 of 53 (4908 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

I disagree.

I think of the old maxim that one should not bother trying to wrestle a pig. You both end up dirty and the pig doesn't mind.

Antisocial people know that they win when they drag you into their kind of interaction. They see you lose your cool, while most of the time they are much more in control of their own emotions since this is a place they have much more experience in.

Everything that I have read regarding preventing and addressing street harassment says the contrary. You are supposed to loudly call attention to your harasser to discourage bad behavior. Not ignore it. This also allows you to have witnesses.

I hope that if you ever have a daughter, you don't tell her to silently let it roll off her shoulders if someone threatens her safety on the street. That could be deadly advice.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #44 of 53 (4897 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
I hope that if you ever have a daughter, you don't tell her to silently let it roll off her shoulders if someone threatens her safety on the street. That could be deadly advice.

Do you really mean to suggest that saying "Fuck you, you small-dicked asshole!" to a person who appears unstable and aggressive is a safer approach?

That is delusional.


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 16, 2013, 12:23 PM
Post #45 of 53 (4894 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results. ...
...ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?"

I can tell you with full confidence that if I had ignored that brute and said I noticed she looked a little down and could I buy her a cup of coffee, I would have gotten exactly the same reaction from that man.

Why is it that you can't conceive that maybe if the MAN had accepted the lady's meek "no" and left it at that, the situation would have resolved itself? Why are you blaming ME for that man's response? HE was the one who escalated the situation - NOT me. I can tell you that. I just didn't skitter scared like apparently you - who was not there - believed would have been appropriate. I FACED the fucker down.

A person doesn't need a gun jammed down their throat to understand someone means business, and instead of running scared I stood up to the threat.

So, you reacted the way you did when your life was threatened, and I reacted the way I did. We both walked away to live another day... yet only one of us is telling the other person they were wrong to respond the way they did.....


In reply to:
I read a lot into the dialog..

You certainly have! I am truly amazed at how you are so damned sure I am wrong when it doesn't appear to have occurred to you that perhaps you are imagining a different scenario than what was really there. YOUR situation has got me egging a person on who started the shit. I've walked away from people at other times this sort of stuff happens. The follow you, they will spit on you, they will scream obscenities as you walk...

No thank you. I'll take the creep on face to face.


In reply to:
...I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked.

It was the men's LACK of self control which STARTED the events which followed, dude.

What stopped #1 was that we were on 18th Street on a busy morning, and no doubt the person realized that my loud voice was bringing attention to his attempt to get his rocks off on whatever game he calls what he was doing.

What stopped #2 was my moving quickly out of the direct area and into a safer zone.

Do you REALIZE that you are DEFENDING men who actually SAID they could/would kill??????


In reply to:
They see you lose your cool,...

I can guarantee that I did NOT lose my cool, in either of those situations. I can guarantee you that neither of those men thought for a second that "they won."

In reply to:
Do you really mean to suggest that saying "Fuck you, you small-dicked asshole!" to a person who appears unstable and aggressive is a safer approach?


It was safe, because the event was over. I had been through it and I knew what I was dealing with. I was past the man and on my way. Again - what I had ORIGINALLY said was "Move over Teddy, let the man walk through!" And I had said it in a singsong voice with NOT undertones. THAT was what "earned" me the attacking behavior.


Again, I would like to suggest that you have said your piece; you have explained how polite society, in your view, responds. I am going to ask you to have to courtesy to back away from continuing to read my mind, tell me what's wrong with my attitude and keep the focus on your self.


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Aug 16, 2013, 12:28 PM)


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:39 PM
Post #46 of 53 (4889 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
In reply to:
No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results. ...
...ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?"

I can tell you with full confidence that if I had ignored that brute and said I noticed she looked a little down and could I buy her a cup of coffee, I would have gotten exactly the same reaction from that man.

Why is it that you can't conceive that maybe if the MAN had accepted the lady's meek "no" and left it at that, the situation would have resolved itself? Why are you blaming ME for that man's response? HE was the one who escalated the situation - NOT me. I can tell you that. I just didn't skitter scared like apparently you - who was not there - believed would have been appropriate. I FACED the fucker down.

A person doesn't need a gun jammed down their throat to understand someone means business, and instead of running scared I stood up to the threat.

So, you reacted the way you did when your life was threatened, and I reacted the way I did. We both walked away to live another day... yet only one of us is telling the other person they were wrong to respond the way they did.....


In reply to:
I read a lot into the dialog..

You certainly have! I am truly amazed at how you are so damned sure I am wrong when it doesn't appear to have occurred to you that perhaps you are imagining a different scenario than what was really there. YOUR situation has got me egging a person on who started the shit. I've walked away from people at other times this sort of stuff happens. The follow you, they will spit on you, they will scream obscenities as you walk...

No thank you. I'll take the creep on face to face.


In reply to:
...I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked.

It was the men's LACK of self control which STARTED the events which followed, dude.

What stopped #1 was that we were on 18th Street on a busy morning, and no doubt the person realized that my loud voice was bringing attention to his attempt to get his rocks off on whatever game he calls what he was doing.

What stopped #2 was my moving quickly out of the direct area and into a safer zone.

Do you REALIZE that you are DEFENDING men who actually SAID they could/would kill??????


In reply to:
They see you lose your cool,...

I can guarantee that I did NOT lose my cool, in either of those situations. I can guarantee you that neither of those men thought for a second that "they won."


Again, I would like to suggest that you have said your piece; you have explained how polite society, in your view, responds. I am going to ask you to have to courtesy to back away from continuing to read my mind, tell me what's wrong with my attitude and keep the focus on your self.

Your histrionic response to my posts shows that keeping your cool in not your strong suit.

Never did I suggest that you skitter away scared, nor did I ever defend the antisocial behaviors of the men you encountered. I simply pointed out that nothing you described sounds likely to change anyone's behavior or help the person who was being intimidated.

I believe you are capable of doing more to achieve both goals if you keep your head and apply redirection in place of confrontation.

I didn't dream these things up myself. I have the benefit of the wisdom of skilled teachers in crisis management training, who taught me many aspects of the approach I espouse.


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 16, 2013, 12:54 PM
Post #47 of 53 (4878 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:59 PM
Post #48 of 53 (4875 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.

How do you perceive that discussing how best to handle confrontational situations in a thread dedicated to that subject is highjacking it?


chadnsc


Aug 16, 2013, 1:34 PM
Post #49 of 53 (4862 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

That's why I shoot all jerks that cross my path. Tongue


carabiner96


Aug 17, 2013, 8:17 PM
Post #50 of 53 (4779 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610

Re: [rolfr] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rolfr wrote:
There is more to the story in what you didn't say. Was there any inconvenient parking? Did you park there just to stake your claim as an entitled climber?

You are pretty quick to stereo type people, beers going, techo music, fire burning, must be boulderers!

Lighten up Dude! Crack a six pack when you approach those folks and they may see you as a friend instead of a dick!

I hope your attitude was worth the sugar they most surely dumped into your gas tank!
Clearly, you have not been to this part of the world.


milesenoell


Aug 19, 2013, 8:56 AM
Post #51 of 53 (826 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.

I would suggest that if you are uncomfortable with people analyzing your behavior that you refrain from going out of your way to describe your behavior on the internet in forums dedicated to analyzing said behavior.


Partner cracklover


Aug 19, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #52 of 53 (810 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.

I would suggest that if you are uncomfortable with people analyzing your behavior that you refrain from going out of your way to describe your behavior on the internet in forums dedicated to analyzing said behavior.

Actually, I invited analysis on my behavior. Happi did not.

GO


milesenoell


Aug 19, 2013, 8:52 PM
Post #53 of 53 (770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 1156

Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.

I would suggest that if you are uncomfortable with people analyzing your behavior that you refrain from going out of your way to describe your behavior on the internet in forums dedicated to analyzing said behavior.

Actually, I invited analysis on my behavior. Happi did not.

GO

Acknowledged. I'm done.


Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook