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milesenoell


Aug 15, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


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Aug 16, 2013, 7:32 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Aug 16, 2013, 7:33 AM)


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 8:27 AM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."

Being a woman has nothing to with it except for making you feel like your actions are somehow heroic when in fact the same actions from a man would be seen as being in just as poor taste. Flinging insults at a person to "point out their disgusting behavior" is never likely to cause the behavior change you seek. You clearly left out a piece of the second story and whatever it was you did to precipitate the reaction from the man you decided was a pimp, but nothing you described seems to suggest that you did anything directly to offer the woman any actual help.

I would not "duck and cover" in those situations, but rather than using aggression and defiance I would focus my attention on the changes I wish to see.

I can certainly see that by being a tall man I can get away with saying less to assert my position than a small woman, but the approach you seem to be advocating smacks strongly of the militant feminism that I have been surrounded by much of my life. Reflecting the negative aspects of domineering men doesn't lead to progress; it's regression to the mean.

Be wiser than that.


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Aug 16, 2013, 8:43 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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Being a woman had EVERYTHING to do with that man on the sidewalk getting in my face and calling me a cunt, among other things. Let me remind me that you were not there, and I was....

Could it possibly be that your having been "surrounded much of your life" by "militant feminists" might be triggering a reaction not completely rational here?

As well. I haven't advocated anything. I am not suggesting anyone else behave the way I do. But, let's agree to disagree here. There's really no need to continue this particular conversation.



As a funny off tangent(to the thread, not the person whose post I responded to)...the other day we were doing trailwork and these three climbers were quite chatty. It took a while for them to get off the ground, but eventually they did, and conversation continued with pretty much every move.

The leader gets to a belay, calls down that he is anchored along with some other stuff. More talk amongst the two on the ground, then something from above and so on...

Then, one of the grounders yells up in a voice which seems he is giving a climbing command. It's not "Climbing" or "Up Rope" or similar. He yells up "Phone!"

The dude up top goes "What?" "PHONE!"

"WHAT?" he repeats.

"PHONE! ANSWER YOUR PHONE."


In my poetically licensed version, the leader would have finally replied Phone OFF." But in reality he answered the phone and the grounder told him that he had been texting when he was waiting and didn't know if he was on belay yet....


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 8:44 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me...

That is clear from your stories. Not only is responding in kind deplorable and dangerous, it sounds like you actually started both confrontations.


No...

In the first, I accommodated the other person by moving to one side of the sidewalk. I said, to my dog Teddy, "Let's move over..." and it was said in a voice of politeness.

The man responded by stepping directly into our path and moved into a position nearly nose to nose with me.

I in no way instigated that confrontation, unless being a woman or worse a woman with a little dog, existing, is cause for an angry person to feel affronted.


The second one - yes, I unintentionally began that confrontation. Perhaps I could have ignored it. After all, what's it to me if some lady is being harassed by a man.


I'd rather be "deplorable" for standing up to both those people than allow them to intimidate me or another. And if I end up dead because I pointed out a person's disgusting behavior, I would say it was a better way to die than the myriad of ways people go these days.

Your way may be to duck and cover, or of employing non-violent communication or some other way. Mine is to point out the obvious when a person is too blind to see their self. I can live with this aspect of my personality, and as the saying goes..."What someone else thinks of me is none of my business."

Being a woman has nothing to with it except for making you feel like your actions are somehow heroic when in fact the same actions from a man would be seen as being in just as poor taste.

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 9:08 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 9:20 AM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
Being a woman had EVERYTHING to do with that man on the sidewalk getting in my face and calling me a cunt, among other things. Let me remind me that you were not there, and I was....

Could it possibly be that your having been "surrounded much of your life" by "militant feminists" might be triggering a reaction not completely rational here?

I consider myself to be a feminist, but I draw the line when it comes to what I regard as angry feminism. I have seen far too many women who are bright enough to find a better path allow their anger and resentment (to very real slights) to take control, acting out what in a man would be recognized as a "little man" complex. This pugnacious demeanor precipitates many unnecessary confrontations.

Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 9:56 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.

And how many times has someone larger than you, unprovoked, used the bulk of their body to prevent you from passing by while either attempting to grope you, threatening you, or saying something crass to you? Just saying that one in four women has been sexually assaulted (never mind assaulted) within her lifetime. No matter how zen-master you want to go about it, bad shit happens to us that may not happen to you.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:01 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:05 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Many people who train martial arts discover that the cool head borne of greater personal confidence in confrontational circumstances seems to magically reduce the number of confrontations they get in. It is the converse principle that seems to be at play in the situations you described that stands out to me.

And how many times has someone larger than you, unprovoked, used the bulk of their body to prevent you from passing by while either attempting to grope you, threatening you, or saying something crass to you? Just saying that one in four women has been sexually assaulted (never mind assaulted) within her lifetime. No matter how zen-master you want to go about it, bad shit happens to us that may not happen to you.

While I readily acknowledge that the playing field is far from even, I would point out that I have been the target of intimidation from strangers on multiple occasions. Bad shit happens to us all.

Ever had a gun jammed in your mouth while someone choked you? I have.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
Ever had a gun jammed in your mouth while someone choked you? I have.

Sorry that happened to you. Regardless, women are more often the target of violence. Bad shit happens to us more often.


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.

I was referring to instance #1. And I still don't blame her for speaking up during instance #2. Too many of us are taught to be submissive and to not intervene when we see something wrong.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:34 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

For the first situation happiegrrrl described, I read a lot into the dialog she described. "We moved over for you, there is plenty of room" strikes me as a dig-in-your-heels type of statement that I suspect was delivered with all the defiance it implies. Thinking that your response is going to change the behavior of a guy who seems to be leading with antisocial behavior in a momentary interaction is foolish in my eyes. There are lots of jerks in the world and there is little benefit in antagonizing them.

Storming off spitting vitriol just demonstrates to people like that that they can indeed get under your skin and "win" the confrontation. Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 16, 2013, 10:35 AM)


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:54 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results.

Some situations are beyond our ability to rectify, but if she had ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?" It turns the attention away from the man, offers the woman a chance to receive help without a confrontation and puts her in a position of directing the situation.

Experience suggests that the chances are low that the woman will accept your help, but ignoring the man as he tells you to mind your own business and starting an interaction that he is trying to get in on shifts the power balance without the aggression. Offering to buy her a cup of coffee gives the woman a chance to move to a more secure location with nothing more confrontational than a nod.

There are probably better ways to handle the situation, but these are tactics that I have used in similar situations with some success.

I was referring to instance #1. And I still don't blame her for speaking up during instance #2. Too many of us are taught to be submissive and to not intervene when we see something wrong.

It was not my intent to "blame" her for speaking up. It was my intention to point out that had she been more thoughtful she could have had more positive impact with less confrontation; and the unpredictable negative consequences of starting a conflict without the power to control the escalation.

In both cases she described I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked. If you present yourself as a target, it's foolhardy to rely on their fear of outside consequences to restrain them. Intoxication, mental illness or stresses a stranger can't perceive could have easily have led the men to lash out physically.

I believe there are better places and better ways to bet your life for your principles.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 10:56 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

I disagree.

I think of the old maxim that one should not bother trying to wrestle a pig. You both end up dirty and the pig doesn't mind.

Antisocial people know that they win when they drag you into their kind of interaction. They see you lose your cool, while most of the time they are much more in control of their own emotions since this is a place they have much more experience in.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Aug 16, 2013, 11:01 AM)


wonderwoman


Aug 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
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milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

I disagree.

I think of the old maxim that one should not bother trying to wrestle a pig. You both end up dirty and the pig doesn't mind.

Antisocial people know that they win when they drag you into their kind of interaction. They see you lose your cool, while most of the time they are much more in control of their own emotions since this is a place they have much more experience in.

Everything that I have read regarding preventing and addressing street harassment says the contrary. You are supposed to loudly call attention to your harasser to discourage bad behavior. Not ignore it. This also allows you to have witnesses.

I hope that if you ever have a daughter, you don't tell her to silently let it roll off her shoulders if someone threatens her safety on the street. That could be deadly advice.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
I hope that if you ever have a daughter, you don't tell her to silently let it roll off her shoulders if someone threatens her safety on the street. That could be deadly advice.

Do you really mean to suggest that saying "Fuck you, you small-dicked asshole!" to a person who appears unstable and aggressive is a safer approach?

That is delusional.


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Aug 16, 2013, 12:23 PM
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In reply to:
No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results. ...
...ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?"

I can tell you with full confidence that if I had ignored that brute and said I noticed she looked a little down and could I buy her a cup of coffee, I would have gotten exactly the same reaction from that man.

Why is it that you can't conceive that maybe if the MAN had accepted the lady's meek "no" and left it at that, the situation would have resolved itself? Why are you blaming ME for that man's response? HE was the one who escalated the situation - NOT me. I can tell you that. I just didn't skitter scared like apparently you - who was not there - believed would have been appropriate. I FACED the fucker down.

A person doesn't need a gun jammed down their throat to understand someone means business, and instead of running scared I stood up to the threat.

So, you reacted the way you did when your life was threatened, and I reacted the way I did. We both walked away to live another day... yet only one of us is telling the other person they were wrong to respond the way they did.....


In reply to:
I read a lot into the dialog..

You certainly have! I am truly amazed at how you are so damned sure I am wrong when it doesn't appear to have occurred to you that perhaps you are imagining a different scenario than what was really there. YOUR situation has got me egging a person on who started the shit. I've walked away from people at other times this sort of stuff happens. The follow you, they will spit on you, they will scream obscenities as you walk...

No thank you. I'll take the creep on face to face.


In reply to:
...I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked.

It was the men's LACK of self control which STARTED the events which followed, dude.

What stopped #1 was that we were on 18th Street on a busy morning, and no doubt the person realized that my loud voice was bringing attention to his attempt to get his rocks off on whatever game he calls what he was doing.

What stopped #2 was my moving quickly out of the direct area and into a safer zone.

Do you REALIZE that you are DEFENDING men who actually SAID they could/would kill??????


In reply to:
They see you lose your cool,...

I can guarantee that I did NOT lose my cool, in either of those situations. I can guarantee you that neither of those men thought for a second that "they won."

In reply to:
Do you really mean to suggest that saying "Fuck you, you small-dicked asshole!" to a person who appears unstable and aggressive is a safer approach?


It was safe, because the event was over. I had been through it and I knew what I was dealing with. I was past the man and on my way. Again - what I had ORIGINALLY said was "Move over Teddy, let the man walk through!" And I had said it in a singsong voice with NOT undertones. THAT was what "earned" me the attacking behavior.


Again, I would like to suggest that you have said your piece; you have explained how polite society, in your view, responds. I am going to ask you to have to courtesy to back away from continuing to read my mind, tell me what's wrong with my attitude and keep the focus on your self.


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Aug 16, 2013, 12:28 PM)


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:39 PM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
In reply to:
No, what I am saying is that if she had found a way to offer help to the woman rather than focusing on the man she would be more likely to get good results. ...
...ignored the man and said something along the lines of, "excuse me miss, but I can't help but notice how down you look. Is there anything I can do to help?"

I can tell you with full confidence that if I had ignored that brute and said I noticed she looked a little down and could I buy her a cup of coffee, I would have gotten exactly the same reaction from that man.

Why is it that you can't conceive that maybe if the MAN had accepted the lady's meek "no" and left it at that, the situation would have resolved itself? Why are you blaming ME for that man's response? HE was the one who escalated the situation - NOT me. I can tell you that. I just didn't skitter scared like apparently you - who was not there - believed would have been appropriate. I FACED the fucker down.

A person doesn't need a gun jammed down their throat to understand someone means business, and instead of running scared I stood up to the threat.

So, you reacted the way you did when your life was threatened, and I reacted the way I did. We both walked away to live another day... yet only one of us is telling the other person they were wrong to respond the way they did.....


In reply to:
I read a lot into the dialog..

You certainly have! I am truly amazed at how you are so damned sure I am wrong when it doesn't appear to have occurred to you that perhaps you are imagining a different scenario than what was really there. YOUR situation has got me egging a person on who started the shit. I've walked away from people at other times this sort of stuff happens. The follow you, they will spit on you, they will scream obscenities as you walk...

No thank you. I'll take the creep on face to face.


In reply to:
...I would suggest that it was the men's self control that kept her from being attacked.

It was the men's LACK of self control which STARTED the events which followed, dude.

What stopped #1 was that we were on 18th Street on a busy morning, and no doubt the person realized that my loud voice was bringing attention to his attempt to get his rocks off on whatever game he calls what he was doing.

What stopped #2 was my moving quickly out of the direct area and into a safer zone.

Do you REALIZE that you are DEFENDING men who actually SAID they could/would kill??????


In reply to:
They see you lose your cool,...

I can guarantee that I did NOT lose my cool, in either of those situations. I can guarantee you that neither of those men thought for a second that "they won."


Again, I would like to suggest that you have said your piece; you have explained how polite society, in your view, responds. I am going to ask you to have to courtesy to back away from continuing to read my mind, tell me what's wrong with my attitude and keep the focus on your self.

Your histrionic response to my posts shows that keeping your cool in not your strong suit.

Never did I suggest that you skitter away scared, nor did I ever defend the antisocial behaviors of the men you encountered. I simply pointed out that nothing you described sounds likely to change anyone's behavior or help the person who was being intimidated.

I believe you are capable of doing more to achieve both goals if you keep your head and apply redirection in place of confrontation.

I didn't dream these things up myself. I have the benefit of the wisdom of skilled teachers in crisis management training, who taught me many aspects of the approach I espouse.


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 16, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.


milesenoell


Aug 16, 2013, 12:59 PM
Post #48 of 53 (4935 views)
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
You may feel I am being histrionic., but funnily, I don't feel like I am being hysterical. I feel quite calm, and have been patiently explaining to you.

You don't seem to understand. I believe I have - calmly - asked you to desist.

Twice already.

You are hijacking a climbing-related thread to make your point.

For the third, and final, time - stop.

How do you perceive that discussing how best to handle confrontational situations in a thread dedicated to that subject is highjacking it?


chadnsc


Aug 16, 2013, 1:34 PM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:

In the first instance she described, a man uttered a threat to kill her in a public place and aggressively put his body in her way to prevent her from getting by. I am sure, like many men who abuse women, he did not intend for other people to witness it. I think she did the right thing by making a scene. This guy will think twice before he pulls that crap again. And no, I do not think he would have done that to a man.

If only that was true then I would not be so critical.

So you are saying that the next time a man threatens a woman on the street, she should shut her mouth and get out of his way? Total victim-blaming.

Letting it wash off your back as though you don't even notice minimizes their power.

No. It encourages the bad behavior.

That's why I shoot all jerks that cross my path. Tongue


carabiner96


Aug 17, 2013, 8:17 PM
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Re: [rolfr] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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rolfr wrote:
There is more to the story in what you didn't say. Was there any inconvenient parking? Did you park there just to stake your claim as an entitled climber?

You are pretty quick to stereo type people, beers going, techo music, fire burning, must be boulderers!

Lighten up Dude! Crack a six pack when you approach those folks and they may see you as a friend instead of a dick!

I hope your attitude was worth the sugar they most surely dumped into your gas tank!
Clearly, you have not been to this part of the world.

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