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dave1970


Feb 6, 2003, 9:39 PM
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Given the financial difficulties facing the access fund in the efforts.Why don't more climbers just join so that we can purchase and permanently protect our access to troubled areas?


benkiessel


Feb 6, 2003, 9:42 PM
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i had been meaning to join and i finally did at the ouray ice fest!


epic_ed


Feb 6, 2003, 10:05 PM
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Count me in.


roughster


Feb 6, 2003, 10:11 PM
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also a card carrying member


darkside


Feb 6, 2003, 10:46 PM
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I am not a member of the Access Fund. However being a Canadian, we have a similar group. The ACCess Committee was founded by the Alpine Club of Canada as an independant body to act on behalf of all climbers. Participation is open to all climbers and although organisation is a little different to the AF, the problems and issues are very much similar.

What is needed even more than money is participation. Get involved, be pro-active, take the time to learn, and educate others.
Climbers as a whole are pathetically apathetic and are too ready to let others sort it out.

The Access Fund and the ACCess Committee are not the answer to access problems. They are merely facilitators for climbers to solve their problems. They may lead the way but if climbers won't follow then nothing is solved.

How do I know of these problems, why do I sound frustrated; because not only do I take an interest in access issues, I manage two different portfolio's in southern Ontario and deal with matters relating to both rock and ice. I'm frustrated because I see too many climbers paying nothing more than lip service to access.

I implore you to do more than just donating money, GET INVOLVED.


valygrl


Feb 6, 2003, 10:50 PM
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Access fund member here, for 7 years.


onelung


Feb 6, 2003, 10:51 PM
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Ashamed not to proudly boast my membership I will swear publicly if a link is posted to membership I will join. I have the form in my reach but am a bit of a lazy ass at home so You post and you have me as a Member.
Ho'o Mau,
Bill


vulgarian


Feb 6, 2003, 11:23 PM
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Member for about six years now. Isn't everyone?


madturtle


Feb 7, 2003, 12:52 AM
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Well said darkside. I have to admit I'm pretty much a token AF member. I've got my $50 t-shirt to prove it but haven't DONE a whole lot more than pay the fee and gab about it here and there. I pick up litter and follow the rules does that count? In any case here is the membership link for all the lazies out there, but you need your own credit card #.

https://www.accessfund.org/secure/joinnow/join_indiv.php



mitchal


Feb 7, 2003, 1:27 AM
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Member in good standing
also member of Pa Alliance of Climbers(PAC),a local organization with similar intent.
Climb Happy ,
Mitch


fanederhand


Feb 7, 2003, 3:48 AM
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HAve been a member for several years. Many trail days in my area (southeast) support the AF. Participation in AF and other environmentally sound events shows that the climbing community cares. It shows that the climbing community has a great bunch of people in it that care about their natural surroundings. I guess it goes along with the reasons why we climb. Rock on everbody


jen_c


Feb 7, 2003, 4:21 AM
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My husband & I are both paid members.

I am also a member of the Southeastern Climbers Coalition which tends to have a lot of the same goals but more on a local level here in the SE.
www.seclimbers.org - check it out too.


Partner rrrADAM


Feb 7, 2003, 4:45 AM
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I donate generously twice per year.


Partner tim


Feb 7, 2003, 4:49 AM
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Member in good standing. I try to defuse access issues locally whenever I get a chance, and pick up as best as I can at the crags.

I do what I can to keep things from going to hell.


ambler


Feb 7, 2003, 5:29 AM
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The Access Fund played a key role fighting for access, cleaning things up, and/or maintaining good relations with land managers at many of the places I most like to climb, from Rumney to Shelf Road to JTree.

They definitely have my support, including membership.


spider_woman


Feb 7, 2003, 5:31 AM
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Member.


kahuna3602


Feb 7, 2003, 6:05 AM
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I am.


gretchenfb


Feb 7, 2003, 6:17 AM
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I am a full fledge member of the Red River Gorge Climbing Coalition, www.rrgcc.org


onelung


Feb 7, 2003, 7:54 AM
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This "lazy" thanks the angry terrapin for the link.
Ho'o Mau
Bill


mcfoley


Feb 7, 2003, 7:55 AM
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I am!!!


atg200


Feb 7, 2003, 8:07 AM
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member for the last 5 years.


ebelay


Feb 7, 2003, 8:14 AM
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I am - have been for a long time.

EVERY climber should support the Access Fund if they can afford it.

Kudos to Kurt Smith's "Kickin Access" tour last year. Hopefully, new dates will be announced for this year.

--Eric


brianinslc


Feb 7, 2003, 8:17 AM
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Member.

Also ASCA. Another good cause.

Brian in SLC


alpinerocket


Feb 7, 2003, 8:09 PM
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I renew my membership at the Ouray Ice Festival every year. John


onelung


Feb 7, 2003, 8:37 PM
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OK Thanks again, to Madturtle(aka angry terrapin) Because of you and this thread I can happily say I am a supporter of The Access Fund.
Here's my reason for pause.
Some outdoor org's run contrary to my outlook on life. I am a USGA member(golf eh?) so wouldnt I be in conflict being a Surfrider Fdn(great org) or a Sierra club member? I work on the ocean so would green peace try and shut down my company? If you laugh u dont know this group.
I have looked as deeply as I can at The Access Fund... I am confident this money given will support what I support and not run contrary to my outlook on life.
Thanks much sorry for the rant.
Bill


pywiak


Feb 7, 2003, 8:51 PM
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While I don't always agree on every policy/issue, I've been a member since it was organized.

If you're going to be a climber, you gotta pay your dues...



moabbeth


Feb 7, 2003, 8:53 PM
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Thanks for the link madturtle, I just went in and joined! Been meaning to since I started climbing but your link made it so easy I just did it!

I'd been giving donations to Utah Free Lands to help save the base of Castleton Tower from some cheesy-ass housing tract development. I know the AF is involved with that too.


mesomorf


Feb 7, 2003, 9:37 PM
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I've been a member since soon after they split from the AAC. I give extra for special causes, like saving Indian Creek, Camp 4, and Castleton Tower. I've make phone calls to the Texas Parks Dept. on the topic of Hueco (fat lot of good that does). I've written letters on the topics of Devil's Tower and fixed anchors in Canyonlands.


antimatter


Feb 11, 2003, 9:57 AM
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Wow, great groups! I am a member of both.

http://www.safeclimbing.org
http://www.accessfund.org

I've thoroughly enjoyed hiking access funds' trails, access to the crags they fight for and clipping ASCA's bolts.


[ This Message was edited by: antimatter on 2003-02-11 09:58 ]


kindredlion


Feb 11, 2003, 10:08 AM
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Member here...

I pick up trash, and clean obscene looking booty from walls. Everyone can ALWAYS do more....


Take Air,

Adam


climbincajun


Feb 11, 2003, 10:20 AM
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Member and Regional Coordinator for Southern AZ.

If you climb in the U.S., and you're not an AF member, you are part of the problem.


Partner cracklover


Feb 11, 2003, 10:21 AM
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I am.

GO


Partner phaedrus


Feb 11, 2003, 10:41 AM
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Joined up in January here. Just a-waitin' on my card.


stellalpina


Feb 11, 2003, 10:41 AM
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im a member


just_me


Apr 21, 2003, 8:58 PM
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I am also a member, and an active volunteer. I am currently unemployed, and I have been helping out at the Access Fund office almost every week. If you signed up recently, there is a good chance that I mailed you your member handbook and t-shirt!

If you want to get more involved, contact your local coordinator! Click the link below to find the contact for your area. Volunteer locally when possible. :D
http://www.accessfund.org/...re/who_regcoord.html

Bug your frineds, and get them to join and do their part also.


redpiton


Apr 21, 2003, 9:02 PM
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You really think anyone who isnt a member would really sign this post????????

member for a year next month.


boretribe


Apr 21, 2003, 9:08 PM
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Member and volunteer for as long as I have been climbing.

Also a member of ASCA

Giving money helps but volunteering makes a huge difference. Think about donating one or two of your climbing days per year to actively make sure we continue to have great places to climb.

~Geoff


texasclimber


Apr 21, 2003, 9:09 PM
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I know this isn't the main reason for joining, but remember, the money you pay to the Access Fund is TAX DEDUCTABLE!!!! Wouldn't you rather pay that money to them rahter than Uncle Sam?!


drkodos


Apr 21, 2003, 9:27 PM
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I am not a member and never will be.

They don't represent me, or any other climbers I know.

They cause more closures than they do keeping things open.

They are overly aggressive and hostile to land owners and managers.

I hold them mostly responsible for the absolute closing of a number of areas. They continue to crow about their accomplishments, but never tell of their failures.

The salaries they pay themselves are out of proportion to the rest of the climbing community they purport to represent.

F the Access Fund. They are a marketing tool. Controlled by the larger companies, designed to suck in more people to climb so that the market for climbing gear is maintained.

Take a close look at their real budget and see the $$$ they spend making themselves comfortable....

One of the largest hypocrisies ever foisted upon climbers.


texasclimber


Apr 21, 2003, 9:38 PM
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drkodos, how did you get the financials for them? As a future Financial Analysis (in 4 months), I would like to check this out!


galt


Apr 21, 2003, 9:44 PM
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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DrKodos!

After talking to Mike (owner of Horse Pens 40, and a GREAT GUY) about how the Access Fund pretty much screwed him into paying another $100,000 to buy Horse Pens and putting the entire deal in jeopardy of having some big business buy the land I realized why I will NEVER join this organization.

One day before Mike was going to close the deal and purchase Horse Pens (he had every intention of opening it up to climbers and he has kept his word) the Access Fund outbid him with NO INTENTIONS of paying! What they didnít know was that a developer was coming the following week to scout the area. Had the developer wanted the land he could have easily outbid Mike. Mike had to come up with $100,000 in under a week to purchase the land. This info. came straight from Mike while I was at Horse Pens over my spring break.

If you want to go clean up a local crag then do it! If you are worried about access issues then DON'T CLIMB STUPIDLY! Do the best you can to impact the world around you, but it seems to me the access fund is doing very little to help the situation and a lot to hurt it


tradclimber2


Apr 21, 2003, 10:45 PM
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Three years and counting - just sent in my renewal! This group IS worth it.


miarock


Apr 22, 2003, 8:06 PM
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I believe being a member of my local group (red river climber's coalition) is way more beneficial to the red than the access fund will ever be. some areas need good old fashioned discussion of access issues rather than just another lawyer in the mix. also just because you are an access member does not make you a responsible climber.

mia


Partner tim


Apr 22, 2003, 8:08 PM
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same here. it's about time for me to send them another check...


redpiton


Apr 22, 2003, 8:12 PM
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Drkodos....So we meet again. I'm enjoying our confrontations.

However, In this subject, I respect you for having balls.

Thanks for being different. If what you are saying is correct, then I will look a little more closley towards where my money is going. If what you say isn't true, then screw ya.

But, in the long run, thanks for the change of flow. I will do a little rummaging around of my own.


timstich


Apr 22, 2003, 8:25 PM
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In reply to:
Drkodos....So we meet again. I'm enjoying our confrontations.

However, In this subject, I respect you for having balls.

Thanks for being different. If what you are saying is correct, then I will look a little more closley towards where my money is going. If what you say isn't true, then screw ya.

But, in the long run, thanks for the change of flow. I will do a little rummaging around of my own.

'Tis a fine man that respects his nemesis, or rather just some other bloke that differs in opinion. My hat's off to you.


hooker


Apr 22, 2003, 8:50 PM
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In response to their financials:

because they allow a person to deduct contributions, and they have status as a not for profit organization, all financial records are PUBLIC records. They create these financials but don't really do a good job at distributing them.

All you have to do is request them and they will send them out.


Another point:

The recent Ad in Climbing that included a "Hit List" of crags. This is a highly hostile attitude, in my opinion. The inclusion of Skytop at the Gunks is particularly grating to me because the Skytop is PRIVATE property.

Private property owners need to have their rights preserved, not eroded. Climbers, including myself, have climbed at Skytop for many years with a a tacit agreement from the Smiley family that it was a PRIVILEDGE that could be revoked at any time. Due to insurance problems, the Mountain House revoked the privilidge. The Access Fund has only made matters worse by protesting (loudly) and trying to intimidate and force the land owner to allow climbing based upon an Historical use provision.

I agree with Dr Kodos. Too many stories in the rags are just "ADS" in disguise for the Access Fund. They seem to be just another marketing tool. Increase membership, increase revenue. Take a look at the cars they rent and drive when they have "summit meetings". Take a look at where the money really gets spent. The majority of $$$ is not spent on Access issues, it is spent advertising for new members. t's a self perpetuating disease that ALL institutions suffer from.

Like any other institution, the Access Fund may have had great intentions, but like Elvis, they have become fat and bloated, a shadow of their former selves. They do not represent me


drkodos


Apr 22, 2003, 10:11 PM
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In reply to:
Drkodos....So we meet again. I'm enjoying our confrontations.

However, In this subject, I respect you for having balls.

Thanks for being different. If what you are saying is correct, then I will look a little more closley towards where my money is going. If what you say isn't true, then screw ya.

But, in the long run, thanks for the change of flow. I will do a little rummaging around of my own.

I tend to think of it as an "idea exchange" rather than a confrontation.

Please don't take my word for it. Go look at the latest issue of the climbing rags and see how many "articles" are actually advertisments to induce membership.

And thanks to the above poster for pointing out the HORRIBLE hit list in the latest issue. I also draw your attention to the "Tech Tips" area where they have a whole page devoted to proper environmental behavior at the crags that degenerates into nothing more than a shill to join the Access Fund.


News Bulletin

Folks, you don't need the Access Fund if you want to do the right thing.


sroehlk


Apr 23, 2003, 6:55 AM
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I joined a few months back :D


dave1970


Apr 23, 2003, 7:40 AM
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The Access Fund is committed to preserving the climbing experience for present and
future generations," said Shawn Tierney, access and acquisitions director. "To put
this commitment into action, we allocate approximately 15% of our annual budget to
grants, and for 2003 we have budgeted $120,000. We're proud to fund these important
initiatives on behalf of our members and the entire climbing community."


Since I started this thread, I thought I should share this quote.

This is pretty disturbing to me that they expect to take in 800,000 dollars in 2003 and pay out only 120,000. What is happening with the rest?

I will give them a call and request the tax return and associated disclosures. I have a fair degree of financial knowledge and can easily make sense of the information.

Is anybody interested?


madturtle


Apr 23, 2003, 8:58 AM
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I'd be interested to know. I'd also be interested to know what similar groups spend on overhead as a basis for comparison if anyone out there has good data on not for profits. I'd like to think the discrepency in funds can be explained and if not hopefully this discussion will lead to a change in the right direction. Thanks Dave.


dave1970


Apr 23, 2003, 9:58 AM
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I am in possession of the Access Fund Tax return and associated disclosures for the year ended 2001. This return was actually filed in JUly of 02 ( they extended).

At first glance, it does NOT look pretty .


Partner tim


Apr 23, 2003, 10:04 AM
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Yes, I am interested.

Please post your findings. I want to know where my money went.


drkodos


Apr 23, 2003, 10:13 AM
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Like the "Encylclopedia Foundation" in Asimov's Classic Foundation Trilogy:

The Access Fund is a fraud, and always has been.

I remember their "summit" at the Gunks a few years back to try to force the Private Land owners at Mohonk Mountain house to re-open Skytop. They all drove up in rented Jeep Cherokees ($65/day), one to a vehicle. They all took rooms in the Hotel ($150/nite). All expenses for this "summit" paid right out of the General Fund.

A bunch of Silver-spooned, high-pedigree, spoiled brats that have found a way to bilk the avereage Johnny punch-clock climber of money so that the Russ Clune's of the world can climb wherever and whenever they want.


drkodos


Apr 23, 2003, 10:15 AM
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It's not the money....












..............it's the money.


dave1970


Apr 23, 2003, 10:36 AM
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Just a few highlights from form 990 for the Access Fund for 2001.

In 2001 the executive director was paid salary of 68,000.
In 2001 AF reported advertising expense of 64,807 and postage expense of 74,675.

In 2001 access fund reported to the IRS 100,824 in total cash grants and allocations made. ( cash for climbing )


They spent more than twice as much money on postage, advertising, and the executive director than they did for the stated mission of the fund.


Additionally, they report the existence of a 403(b) annuity plan. Anyone who follows college sports and coaching should know about these. In general ,these are used to shower people with compensation in the future, while not requiring a lot of current disclosure. I would like to see the AF disclose all documentation related to said plan.

One more little piece of food for thought.


In 1998 AF reported 7,743 in income from interest and dividends.
In 2000 the amount was 28,919. That was an increase of 273%.


How can they have such stellar increases over that period when everyone else was losing it.


One simple answer: They would rather take the money we give them to buy rocks and instead buy stocks. ( at least since 1998).


thoughts ?


hooker


Apr 23, 2003, 11:05 AM
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If you really think about it, shouldn't the main goal of the Access Fund be:


To Get Rid of Itself?


baldguy


Apr 23, 2003, 11:12 AM
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In 2001 the executive director was paid salary of 68,000.

That may or may not be excessive, depending on what duties the executive director is responsible for - rent in Boulder is expensive (kidding). Carl Pope, e.d. of the Sierra Club, makes twice that and then some.

Sadly, IMHO, once an organization receives a tax break and a budget (i.e. becomes a not-for-profit org), everything changes. The vision of the originators is blurred by the desire to generate new memberships and meet/exceed certain financial goals. Bah.

I am a member of the AF, but I'm thinking, as some of you others have said, that it's much more important to lead by example than with my wallet.


drkodos


Apr 23, 2003, 11:37 AM
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The above point by Hooker is worth examining.....

If the Access Fund were to be successful, they would be ensuring their own non-existence!

So, like police forces everywhere, they have a vested interest in maintaining that which they have named as Nemesis.

Also, the above argument refering to Carl Pope's Salary is disgusting. The Sierra Club is the best example of hypocrisy and irony in the Outdoor world. Look at the cars parked in the lot at one of their meetings......ALL SUV"S!!! What a bunch of poseurs.

I think that salary reported is only the tip of the iceberg.

What about all the other perks that other climbers don't get? Such as car expenses, travel expenses, hotel rooms, the priviledge to travel and climb to a given area on someone else's $$$ and claim doing it is helping ensure "access". Do these guys get Health Coverage??

It a shame that most climbers hold themselves out from the "ordinary" when it comes to behavior, but they succumb to the same tired old White middle class paradigm: "I care, see how much $$$ I give??"


baldguy


Apr 23, 2003, 12:08 PM
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In reply to:
Also, the above argument refering to Carl Pope's Salary is disgusting.

The argument is disgusting or the salary? I think I might not have made myself clear...my point was this: $68k/yr. for an e.d. may/may not be excessive - Carl Pope's salary is undoubtedly excessive ("twice that and then some"). I agree with you about the nature of both the AF and the Sierra Club (bloated, self-important, orgs. that might do more harm than good...).

BUT.

What else can we as a community do to collectively resolve access issues? Should it be left to the crag-in-question's local community - who would likely never be able to organize a critical mass to oppose closures or retain legal representation?


drkodos


Apr 23, 2003, 12:18 PM
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My bad...I meant arguing that the AF salary is OK because some other greedy a**wipe takes even more is disgusting. I understand your point now. Thanks for clarifying. 8)

The salaries are ALL disgusting. Where's my cut for NOT being part of the problem.....

If you think there's a solution..... you're part of the problem.... :wink:

On a more serious note:
Access issues will resolve themselves if climbers acted in a manner that was respectful to land ownership.

I've been climbing on private lands for years with respect for (and permission from) land owners, only to see some guy make a name for himself by publishing some "routes", then having the place get popular, subsequently get defoliated/destroyed, then having access denied by the PRIVATE LAND OWNER and then have the AF bozos show up and start pressuring the owner and using the media in a way that makes the poor sap, that let three of us climb, into the biggest yank and the scourge of climbers just wanting to "express their free will and given RIGHTS to climb".

(Breath in now)

They are Liars ....er, I mean Lawyers, yes?


dave1970


Apr 23, 2003, 1:00 PM
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http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/943/131/2001-943131165-1-9.pdf


Here is a link to the tax return.


On the upside, Utah Open Lands seems to be really walking the walk financially. Does anyone have any knowledge of that group?


hardmann


Apr 29, 2003, 4:40 PM
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Dream on! The only way climbing issues will improve is if climbers are proactive. The Access Fund educates climbers on how to behave at the crag. Access issues will never go away, face it! Climbers are too apathetic.
:cry:


Partner tim


Apr 29, 2003, 6:00 PM
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This is a statement we received from the Access Fund's Publications Director, John Heisel, this morning. I hope Amber does not shoot me for posting it (esp. since we're hoping to establish front-page residence for releases like these, where a respected group can address public concerns). Regardless, I hope that those of you following this thread will read it. Here goes:

In reply to:
Access Fund Statement

April 29, 2003



How the Access Fund Manages Its Support



We want to thank all our members and volunteers for their time and support.
Many members have volunteered with trail projects, given significant
donations of time and money, have worked with or started local climber
organizations, have developed good relationships with local land managers or
owners, and volunteered as Regional Coordinators.



In a perfect world, the Access Fund (AF) and many of the other volunteer
organizations working to forward stewardship of recreational areas would put
themselves out of business. As one writer said, ?Access issues will resolve
themselves if climbers acted in a manner that was respectful to land
ownership.? However, climbing is growing rapidly and attracting many people
with many different backgrounds that require environmental education, an
understanding of impact mitigation, and minimum impact in sensitive and
sacred areas. Also, private land is being developed at an exceptionally fast
rate as the quantity of outdoor users groups increases which in turn creates
potential for conflicts.



The simple answer to conflict is to close or severely restrict climbing
areas.



The truth is that protecting our rights to public lands and gaining proper
access to private land requires time, dedication, money, and patience. For
our members, we would like for you to know that we take your investment in
the AF as seriously as protecting access for climbing. To be an excellent
representative organization, it is vitally important for us to hear what the
climbing community is thinking and feeling. Below are facts about the AF in
response to a recent posting on Rockclimbing.com.



Salaries & Expenses

AF Board Members are unpaid. They donate hundreds of their hours a year,
mostly pay for their travel to meetings, and also contribute monetarily. In
the earliest days of the AF, some board members loaned the AF money -
interest free - to get us though difficult times.



The recent misrepresentation of an alleged "Summit" was actually a
semi-annual board meeting timed to coincide with a ribbon cutting ceremony
for Minnewaska State Park. There was no meeting with the Mountain House,
and no member of the board stayed there. The opening of Minnewaska State
Park was the first and only New York state park to allow rock climbing, and
it took several volunteers five and a half years of working with the state
to make it happen. There have been conversations with the owners of Skytop
to work with liability concerns. To date, however, these conversations have
not lead to a change in the existing situation. Climbers have no right to
climb on private land without the landowner?s permission and jeopardize the
rights of the rest of the climbing community by their actions. The AF has
limited tools other than trying to buy, lease or negotiate conservation
easements. Success on gaining easements on private land depends on the
landowner?s desire to work with the AF. Private land ownership rights are
important to all, and we encourage all climbers to respect private
landowners and their choices.



The AF has a small number of dedicated full-time staff. Their focus
includes access and stewardship issues, review and comment on policy and
management plans, membership support, coordinating volunteers and
fundraising required in accomplishing our mission. This team is compensated
with salary and benefits as required for fulltime employees by law. Like
any good climber, we are lean and nimble. Compensation is determined by a
national and local average for non-profit organizations. Most of our staff
is paid at or below the national average for non-profits. Without our
dedicated staff, events like Adopt a Crag Day, education materials on
Raptors, and much of our core mission work would not be possible.



Acquisitions

The AF has a long history of working with local climbers to protect our
climbing resources through conservation easements. As a last resort, we
acquire land. We never bid against Horse Pens 40. In fact, we spent
considerable time working with the local climbing community and the new
owner to ensure continued climber access.



Grants

The grants program puts money in the field for trails, toilets and other
mitigation measures. We are not a foundation whose purpose is to give away
its assets. Instead we created the grants program as a way to leverage the
work we are doing by supporting local activists pursuing these same goals.
The National Park Service recently recognized our efforts in helping to
clean up Denali.



Mostly, we support local volunteers with our professional staff, supply
expertise, encourage others to help protect their local climbing areas and
develop positive relationships with their land managers. For more
information on our grants program see our website at
www.accessfund.org/programs/programs_prog/html.



Stock Ownership

The AF does own stocks and bonds that were directly donated by its members.
Membership money has never gone to purchase stock. As the economy has
declined during the past few years, we have suffered significant losses to
our stock investments. We are hoping for a rebound so we can devote these
resources to the support of our mission.



The Access Fund

The AF is a national organization that works with private landowners as well
as federal (USFS, BLM, USPS) state, and local affiliations. We are dedicated
to being the voice of the climbing community for resolving access issues and
to promote stewardship of the land. We value input from the community in
order to serve it better.



Please visit our web site at www.accessfund.org
if you would like more information or have questions about the AF. For
those looking for financial information, see our 2002 annual report that we
will post on-line in May.





Thank you for your continued support,



The Access Fund

This release will also be posted as a news story as soon as practicable.


Partner calamity_chk


Apr 29, 2003, 8:55 PM
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nope, no shooting here. well, not at you anyways .. ;)


gawd


Apr 29, 2003, 9:25 PM
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In reply to:
The above point by Hooker is worth examining.....

If the Access Fund were to be successful, they would be ensuring their own non-existence!

So, like police forces everywhere, they have a vested interest in maintaining that which they have named as Nemesis.

Also, the above argument refering to Carl Pope's Salary is disgusting. The Sierra Club is the best example of hypocrisy and irony in the Outdoor world. Look at the cars parked in the lot at one of their meetings......ALL SUV"S!!! What a bunch of poseurs.

I think that salary reported is only the tip of the iceberg.

What about all the other perks that other climbers don't get? Such as car expenses, travel expenses, hotel rooms, the priviledge to travel and climb to a given area on someone else's $$$ and claim doing it is helping ensure "access". Do these guys get Health Coverage??

It a shame that most climbers hold themselves out from the "ordinary" when it comes to behavior, but they succumb to the same tired old White middle class paradigm: "I care, see how much $$$ I give??"

holier than thou?

i think so.

if they access fund showed spine maybe they could earn some respect.


hardmann


Apr 30, 2003, 1:04 PM
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Dkorkdos, what is your solution? Do you think climbing access issues would be better without the Access Fund? Staff at the AF don't travel around to different climbing areas they, visit them to meet with land managers, local climbing organizations and governmental agencies.

What are you doing for climbing access :?:


drkodos


Apr 30, 2003, 1:11 PM
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A lot more than you imagine.

I just spent $115,000 of my own money to purchase a large amount of acreage that will protect a famously well known climbing area. Untill you push me, I really don't come forward to promote myself or what I actually DO for the issue of Access.

Nazi Germany was fairly adept at spewing propaganda. The Access Fund are masters of spin. If you choose to seal your fate with these people, that is your choice.

Talk to land owners. Talk to land managers. Learn the truth.

Not just the Pimped out Rhetoric from a bunch of Liars/lawyers.


Here is some of the solution. CAVEAT: It is not pretty!

Stop F@cking Rap bolting. It is the NUMBER ONE ISSUE that closes land. Period.
Stop promoting NEW PEOPLE to join the sport. The mags, rags, the AF and manufacturers are trying their hardest to GROW the sport for $$$$. The overswelling of the ranks with a bunch of numbnuts that have no outdoor wilderness ethics is killing us.

One Major problem is that most climbers don't want to handle the truth that it is THEIR OWN BEHAVIORS that cause the problems.

Want to learn more? There are a lot of solutions out there that are FAR BETTER than anything the A$$HOlE FUND is doing....


Partner rrrADAM


Apr 30, 2003, 1:37 PM
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Funny how those who slam the AF are so unaware of the details that are printed in the Newsletter than members recieve.

Hell, I even post the eVertical Times by the AF monthly in the Access Issues & Closures Forum for all to read.


Still continuing to donate.


drkodos


Apr 30, 2003, 2:20 PM
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If you'd refrain from smoking those cancer sticks at the crags you'd be doing a lot more to help the cause......


drkodos


Apr 30, 2003, 2:22 PM
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In reply to:
Funny how those who slam the AF are so unaware of the details that are printed in the Newsletter than members recieve.

Hell, I even post the eVertical Times by the AF monthly in the Access Issues & Closures Forum for all to read.


Still continuing to donate.


I get the newsletter. It is propaganda. That's the point.

It's your attitude and behaviors, as well as others such as yourself that actually CAUSE the problem....

Ironic that you have a quote in your signature that obviosuly does not apply whatsoever to your own mindest.


Partner rrrADAM


Apr 30, 2003, 2:27 PM
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In reply to:
I get the newsletter. It is propaganda. That's the point.

It's your attitude and behaviors, as well as others such as yourself that actually CAUSE the problem....

Ironic that you have a quote in your signature that obviosuly does not apply whatsoever to your own mindest.

Where is the logic in that arguement, or lack of one ??? Try to discuss, not flame. More logic in discussion.

I think you've watched too many Oliver Stone Movies brutha, as a "closed mind" sees conspiracey in everything. I have seen the AF in action.



I assume you are of some relation to 'hooker', or maybe it is an alter ego. You really should buy Skycap from the Hotel, and donate it to the Preserve, so we can climb there once again. You being a Gunks local, my favorite place by the way, I am sure that you rally to deny the donations the AF makes to the Preserve, right ??? :roll:


In reply to:
One Major problem is that most climbers don't want to handle the truth that it is THEIR OWN BEHAVIORS that cause the problems.


I agree with you here 100%... I have been witness to younger climbers not "knowing how to act" in many of our National Parks. These areas are visited by people other than climbers, and loud raukus behavior doesn't go over well with the general public.


hugepedro


Apr 30, 2003, 2:43 PM
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None of the numbers posted look at all out of line to me. In fact, I think they look very good. $68,000 for the Executive Director of a national organization such as that? I got news for you, that's WELL below market value for that type of position. If they had a position of comparable responsibility in a corporation (say middle management in a large organization, director level, reporting to a VP) they'd be getting at least twice that, and probably more like 3 or 4 times that.

What, their employer pays their travel expenses when they are on a business trip? Golly, so does mine, and in many cases more than the amounts quoted. Am I jealous that their job involves climbing? Maybe a little, but if I thought I could do a better job than them and could accept their below-market compensation, I would apply instead of whining about their sweet, climbing job.

What, they've invested some of their capital and received a return? Good for them! EVERY business or other financial entity invests their war chest capital. It's called responsible management. Like any other organization they have to maintain a certain amount of cash reserves in order to remain solvent through fluctuating financial conditions. It's normal business.

What, they have marketing and mailing expenses? The shame! Uh, "getting the word out" is part of the reason for their existence - they are primarily an "awareness enterprise", it is a key part of their core mission. No other single organization is doing as much on a national scale to raise the awareness of the issues that have been pointed out in this thread as threatening our climbing privileges.

They ONLY gave away $120K in grants? You do realize that grants are only a small part of what they do in the interest of climbers? One of those grants last year preserved one of my favorite climbing areas, by the way. Thanks to all you members who have donated!

Someone said something like "where is mine?"

Are you employed by the Access Fund? No? Then I guess you shouldn't expect to receive any of the NORMAL benefits and compensation that the EMPLOYEES of the Access Fund receive should you? I don't work for IBM, but I'm in the IT Consulting business and I want my share of compensation from IBM! Yeah, right.

You can pick any advocacy association and find instances where their methods were not successful. So I'm certain there are cases where the Access Fund has failed. But I'm also certain they've been successful in many, many cases.


rwaltermyer


Apr 30, 2003, 2:47 PM
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well...i think this is the classic conflict of stockholders vs. managers which is plaguing our capitalistic-corporate-American society.

I guess I could argue that for what we pay, the vertical times is pathetic. But then again, are we paying for a magazine subscription, nope. I hope its money well spent elsewhere.

Personally, I run into the same problem with my local organization: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30238

If the AF hadn't chipped in to help them off their feet, I would have never contributed to the AF becuz I tend to hear so much about initatives in the West, (and everywhere BUT PA) that I'd spend my money and time with a local organization. Of course, the same problem remains.

randy


drkodos


Apr 30, 2003, 6:41 PM
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Apologies for the flaming, my bad.

But no sorrow for my stance.

I would love to buy the hotel. Will you help? Although, I'm not sure it's for sale....


I never said it was a conspiracy. My argument IS logical. here it is:



The Access Fund does nothing to really address the issue that cause Access problems.

Many of the people that donate are irresponsible users that help create access issues. Instead of being accountable, they instead send a check for some paltyry sum, and relieve themselves of actually having to do anything, let alone take a look at themselves in the mirror and try to change.

Where is the lack of logic......that is no flame. Just a statement of supportable fact.

You remain free to waste your money on a group that has no real reason for existing.....


rwaltermyer


Apr 30, 2003, 6:58 PM
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Re: Access Fund [In reply to]
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I think your making a few assumptions, such as ppl will make the most "logical" choices which favor access to climbing areas.

what happens if the AF doesn't step in to stop a developer from purchasing another boulder field? Economics says if the price is right, maximize profits! Well, thankfully, organizations like the AF can assist in those situations.

is it perfect? no. but, as mentioned, if nothing else, they provide quality, professional help. otherwise, we'd have a bunch of angered locals taking all these access issues (oh, i forgot, they'll solve themselves) into their own hands.

furthermore, some climbers are slobs, litters, and frankly disrespectful etc. And they'll always tick off landowners. So someone needs to step in.


darkside


May 2, 2003, 10:21 AM
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Dream on! The only way climbing issues will improve is if climbers are proactive. The Access Fund educates climbers on how to behave at the crag. Access issues will never go away, face it! Climbers are too apathetic.
:cry:

I work on access issues. I have a number of matters active right now. I know people think "oh no he's going on about access again". I spend time, money, and personal resources on access issues. I know how much climbers are NOT pro-active.

I recieve no compensation or thanks for what I do and expect neither. I get to climb as a result of my efforts.....period.

I am getting frustrated more and more.

Many climbers are a bunch of whiners, who are too apathetic to take an interest and too lazy to be pro-active.

The solution: Let's close down the Access Fund, the ASCA, the ACCess Committee, all climber advocacy groups, all crags, all boulder fields, and climbing areas. OR....
Take responsibility for your actions, be pro-active, take an interest, follow leave-no-trace principles, be courteous & respectful of others, and realize that climbing is a privilege- not a right.

Stop your fricken bitchin about how others TRY to solve YOUR problems, get involved and make a difference. Donating guilt money is not the answer.


drkodos


May 2, 2003, 10:27 AM
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[quote="darkside]Take responsibility for your actions, be pro-active, take an interest, follow leave-no-trace principles, be courteous & respectful of others, and realize that climbing is a privilege- not a right.

Stop your fricken bitchin about how others TRY to solve YOUR problems, get involved and make a difference. Donating guilt money is not the answer.
Thank You....

That's all that needs to happen. There never was nor is there a need for the Fund.


rwaltermyer


May 2, 2003, 12:13 PM
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amen darkside...especially the climbers being whiners part. Couldn't have said it better.


hardmann


May 6, 2003, 9:19 AM
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Re: Access Fund [In reply to]
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Mr. Dork,

What climbing area did you allegedly purchase and preserve?

You mention that the Access Fund screws up access to climbing areas? What is an example of this?

Perhaps you are confusing your "Oliver Stone" movies with the real world...This is not Hollywood. Climbing areas are being closed every year. Do you think you can preach, "behave better" and everthing will resolve itself?

Advocacy begins at the local level -- climbers working with land managers and their local politicians. The Access Fund is the cog in the wheel to resolve access issues. The local climbing organizations are the spokes and individual climbers form the wheel to keep the train rolling and keep our climbing areas open. By spraying flames against this wheel you are spreading glass on the road and flattening the tires to roll through climbing closures.......


tahquitztwo


May 18, 2003, 4:05 PM
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Re: access fund memeber [In reply to]
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I can't remember if I ever joined the Access Fund...but I do send them donations every so often...the money I send in goes locally.
I also send in money to the ASCA....now that's a great organization! Nice to know there are folks who care about our hides enough to replace all of the miserable bolts that have been out there for years. I've been out with a couple of them a few times and I've seen the manky looking bolts that get replaced...I've also seen bolts replaced that were not that bad...just originally put in by someone who could have used a lesson on bolt placements! :shock:


straightedgeteen


May 18, 2003, 4:59 PM
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Re: what does Access Fund do with your contributions? [In reply to]
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Given the financial difficulties facing the access fund in the efforts.Why don't more climbers just join so that we can purchase and permanently protect our access to troubled areas?

Because some climbers are POOR but some arnt and they are the ones that are members


deilert


May 23, 2003, 9:37 AM
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Re: what does Access Fund do with your contributions? [In reply to]
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I agree with a lot of the information on this thread. It seems that there's really just two items here.
    [*:f760ed0127]What you say you do (ie. "support access" by donating to The Access Fund)
    [*:f760ed0127]What you actually do (ie. consideration for closures, support low impact climbing...)In my fifteen years of climbing I'll admit to climbing in areas that were "closed" and not sending in my check to the access fund. But over the years have become more mindful with my life. I am only responsible for myself and no matter how much I complain about other peoples actions, I can only be accountable for my own. At best I can set an example.

    I have in the past and present supported The Access Fund. Today, I consistently practice low impact climbing and respect closures.

    I currently believe that being mindful about my actions in the world is my way to participate in society (climbing and otherwise.)

    My two cents,

    Daren


roclimb


May 23, 2003, 10:11 AM
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Re: what does Access Fund do with your contributions? [In reply to]
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I just noticed this post for the first time.
The AF stands for much more than just Land Purchase. It was mentioned above that the AF is noted fro "everywhere but PA". Actually places like

Mocanaqua
Paradise
The Library
now allow climbing due to past Access Fund work

Birdsboro and Stoney Ridge were closed to climbing but due to local climbers and the access fund climbing was permitted at birds. and tolerated at a section of stoney.

Bauers rock aka. Big Rock Park permits climbing now from an AF event a year and a half ago.

Many other spots are in the works at the moment. If im not mistaken Chickies allows climbing due to certain efforts with the AF years ago. I admit I may be wrong about Chickies though as I live quite away from there but I thought Bob P. worked on climbing there when it was turned into a park.

It always boils down to cooperation with local climbers though. Th emore people who get involved and participate the better access is in the future.
Rob H.


maculated


May 23, 2003, 10:19 AM
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Re: what does Access Fund do with your contributions? [In reply to]
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I am a damn poor climber. When my AF membership came up for renewal, I literally couldn't afford it. I just sent in my dues again now that I have a bit more.

My stance? If you climb anywhere any organization has touched, then you should help them out. That means the minute I see evidence of the Access Fund, or a bolt stamped with ASCA that I clipped, I know it's time to help out the cause.

And that's another thing, I agree that AF has more support and is a bit more powerful, but why aren't people hyping ASCA, as well? I've seen some retrobolting and I'm not sure how I feel about that, but last week at PNM I sat on some new anchors that ASCA'd put in. How can I not support that?


timstich


Jun 4, 2003, 6:30 AM
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access [In reply to]
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Member.



Also ASCA. Another good cause.



Brian in SLC

Damn skippy. Greg Barnes at ASCA is a very cool guy. He's been a big help advising me on bolt standards to try to pitch to the local climbing club members. If I only have $20, I would send $10 to him and $10 to the Access Fund. Your money goes directly into bolts, batteries, and whatever it takes to keep Greg out there rebolting. The work Greg and people like him do might directly affect your life one day.

Yes, sometimes an Access Fund play doesn't work out. Their offer of money to Hueco Tanks park super John Moses got turned down. Moses just wasn't ready to trust them it sounded like. Things will change and people will get used to each other. At least climbing is beig allowed. The Access Fund was at least there to offer *something.*

The locals who do the volunteer guiding are the real heros of Hueco, so that would dovetail quite nicely into the other poster's "get involved" rant. If I lived out there, I would guide sure as sheeot.

-Tim


bradmc


Jul 17, 2003, 11:06 PM
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Re: access [In reply to]
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Without the AF; our local crag would have been driveway gravel. The AF wrote a 10k check very quickly and helped to save our local choss pile (a very loved little choss pile). They have donated heavily to multiple trail and evironmental education projects throughout our region for the past several years.

I am glad to do my small share to help work on local access issues (as do many across the land) and work with the AF (and our small local climbing organization) what little bit of spare time I can as I feel strongly towards saving the climbing experience.


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