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clmbng_addict
Apr 23, 2003, 4:49 PM
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In reply to: Not many people would have had the fortitude to do what he has done while in office. Granted he has not done a great deal for the economy, but consider the factors that he has had to face since he began his administration. Two stick out right away: 9/11 and the recent decision the overthrow the Iraqi regime. He has identified a problem in the world that must be dealt with and he is helping the world deal with it. we must remeber all the obstacles he has faced, that his presidential term is not complete, and above all the great things he has accomplished.
I wouldn't call those two factors of which you speak obstacles so much as they are two of the best things that ever happened for his administration. Here is an alternate way of looking at it:
Using the events of 9/11, Bush was able to rally the support of the vast majority of the American public by exploiting everyone's inflated sense of patriotism and by maintaining it through fear and catchy, cliche patriotic phrases. He thus successfully redirected most of the country's attention from the pisspoor job he was doing with the economy and other domestic affairs, as well as from his isolationist foreign policies for quite some time after Sept. 11.
Eventually his approval ratings gradually began to slip as people finally started to wake up again, so he decides that a country with a sh!tload of oil (which we will badly need in 20 years if Cheney's energy policy remains the trend of the 21st century) is presenting a considerable threat to our national security with all its weapons of mass destruction and whatnot, so much so that it is necessary for us to alienate ourselves from 90% of the rest of the world to wage war. We let ourselves be convinced that the world can be seen in terms of good and evil, that we are the bearers of freedom and happiness, and that anyone who disagrees with us is a fool and clearly isn't open-minded. Once again fear, blind patriotism, propoganda, and those damn patriotic phrases are used to bring support of the war and Bush's job approval ratings up to a sizable majority, and we are again successfully distracted. When no weapons of mass destruction are found, the intent of the war suddenly switches to liberating the people of Iraq so we can all continue to feel good about ourselves and our president and maintain that the rest of the world is ignorant. And of course now that Iraq is relatively secure everyone is even more convinced that we know what is right and Bush is the man, because the majority of Americans seem unable to see things in the longterm, view the world from anything but a westernized perspective, or remember anything past extremely recent history (for instance, what the hell happened to liberating the people of Afghanistan? Weren't they suffering under just as much "evil"?).
The result is our current situation: Bush and his crew can continue isolating the country, trashing the economy, pissing on the environment and basically doing whatever he wants while still maintaining enough support to probably win the next election and continue preemptively striking whoever he doesn't like and hooking up his homies in Big Oil. Would he have found a way to do so if it wasn't for 9/11 and this contrived war with Iraq? Maybe, who knows.....he's pretty deceiptful for someone who could only pull C's in college and fried his brain on coke. But these two events sure made it a heck of a lot easier.
Of course, i'm sure most of you will disagree with that line of thinking.....if most people didn't, then he wouldn't have been elected in the first place. That's just my opinion anyway, not an assertion (for the most part), since none of us are really in the loop or educated enough to insist on what is right. Try to consider it though, as an alternate perspective.
If Bush wants to identify problems in the world and then help deal with them, why doesn't he focus on solving the international water crisis, educating people in developing nations about contraception and AIDS, exterminating diseases in poverty striken parts of the world, or working on a plan to help feed the millions of starving people in such regions as southern Africa. The U.S. spends one-third more on national defense than it does on everything else combined (while a recent figure, i'm pretty sure that comes from before the war, so i have no idea how much more it is now). We feel all good about ourselves for "liberating" the people of Iraq, but how many millions more people who have been effectively ignored could we have helped and perhaps "liberated" from their own poverty with that same money?
Anway, when is this getting moved to "community"?
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furryfrisbee
Apr 23, 2003, 5:07 PM
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Reuters
Apr 23, 10:05 am ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Primate expert and wildlife champion Jane Goodall pant-hooted like a chimpanzee at the State Department on Tuesday as she teamed up with Secretary of State Colin Powell to fight deforestation.
"We tend to spend so much time talking about the environment, talking about conservation, but we very rarely actually get the feeling during these meetings of the animals themselves, so here's a greeting for you from a chimpanzee:
"Whoo whoo whoo oogh oogh oogh oogh oogh oogh oogh oogh ooh ooh oooh oooh," Goodall bellowed in the State Department's Dean Acheson Auditorium, drawing laughter and applause from the diplomats and environmentalists gathered to mark Earth Day and to discuss the issue of deforestation.
"That may be the first time that the voice of the chimpanzee has been heard in the State Department," she added.
Powell said Washington was committed to conservation and he cited the more than $50 million which the United States planned to spend on the Congo Basin Forest Partnership, which aims to protect the central African rainforest from encroachment by loggers, farmers and hunters. The Jane Goodall Institute, a partner in the project, is helping protect chimpanzees, gorillas and elephants from being hunted for bush meat.
Powell said that he had a chance to see one of the forests first hand last year when he visited Gabon.
"I must say, however, that it was a bit of a disappointment. It was a nice walk, it was a beautiful forest, I was expecting to see animals, but my security people were there, and they are very good," he said. "I saw not one animal, not one insect, not one reptile, nothing. They had been cleared for a mile around. Nevertheless, I know they are there."
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iluvny
Apr 23, 2003, 5:22 PM
Post #28 of 66
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you all are a bunch of pansies! i should cut all of your bleeding hearts out. maybe if you lived in NYC or knew & loved people that were lost 9/11, you just might realize that Bush is fighting terrorism and those that support terrorism! but yet all you hypocrites are most likely the same jerks that mock the french...
and who said it wasn't Bush to credit in the war but the credit should go to the soldiers.. well yeah the soldiers deserve credit, How about military strategy and the appointed chiefs of war?? get a clue or go live in Canada.
sorry but this thread pissed me off
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andy_lemon
Apr 23, 2003, 5:40 PM
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In reply to: As a result of settlements, the administration has announced plans to remove wilderness protections from millions of acres of land in Utah. It also agreed to review protections for endangered species such as salmon and the northern spotted owl, reversed a Clinton-era ban on snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks and softened rules on logging."
I hope this does not go through! There are several Yellowstone advocates from Evansville, Indiana that will be on Capitol Hill voicing there opinions...
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furryfrisbee
Apr 23, 2003, 5:41 PM
Post #30 of 66
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In reply to: sorry but this thread pissed me off
Don't be sorry. "Debating the issues" with a bleeding heart liberal is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and irritates the pig.
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bones
Apr 23, 2003, 5:56 PM
Post #31 of 66
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Regardless of what Bush's foreign policy is, he is still making some pretty shady policies on the domestic side. I for one can't trust this president, and I hope we get a better one in 2004, before my back yard is full of oil wells and our local forests are turned into golf courses.
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mzllr
Apr 23, 2003, 5:59 PM
Post #32 of 66
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In reply to: Give me credible evidence why they are jokes. Do you know their platforms? What's their dish on foreign policy, national economy, do their families have ties to major corporations, what's their stance on humanitarian issues? Tell me all.
this is from http://slate.msn.com/id/2079783/
"As some of you may know, I am part-English and part-Irish. And when my Kerry ancestors first came over to Massachusetts from the old country to find work in the New World, it was my English ancestors who refused to hire them."
-from when Kerry was lieutenant governor of Massachusetts.
''For those of us who are fortunate to share an Irish ancestry, we take great pride in the contributions that Irish-Americans …"
-Senate floor statement by John Kerry
"The question before the jury is whether Kerry has systematically sought to con Massachusetts voters (a great many of whom are Irish) into thinking that he's Irish. Kerry's spokesperson, Kelley Benander, told the Globe the erroneous Senate floor statement was staff-written and that Kerry neither recited nor saw it. (It's common for members of Congress to submit written floor statements in lieu of going to the Senate floor and saying the words out loud, and these statements are indeed often written by staff members.) Neither Kerry nor Benander nor Jonathan Winer, the Kerry aide who wrote the draft remarks prepared for Kerry when he was lieutenant governor, recall the speech being used. (But they don't seem specifically to recall it not being used, either.) As for the Irish-themed Kerry campaign paraphernalia, Benander said it was meant to attract Irish-American voters, not to con people into thinking Kerry was Irish.
Still, it's striking that the Globe was able to find two separate instances where Kerry's own staff thought he was Irish and a third where Kerry's campaign invited the public to believe he was Irish. (Benander's explanation about the hats and T-shirts fails to persuade because Kerry wasn't visiting an Irish neighborhood. He was at a state convention attended by people with all sorts of backgrounds.) And it is striking that Kerry has never attempted to correct various references to his Irish ancestry that have appeared in the Globe, which is the most important newspaper in his state."
to me, he's a douchebag. i wish i could tell you what his stances are, but any statements i've ever heard from him are just rhetoric blasting the republican party and trying to garner press for himself. and it's also been widely publicized that the democratic party as a whole is very weak on all the major stances (hence losing the majority in the house, senate, and white house).
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wideguy
Apr 23, 2003, 6:00 PM
Post #33 of 66
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Registered: Jan 9, 2003
Posts: 15046
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No, they're right, you just won't see the facts Saddam Hussein was no threat to the western world, none of his missles could hit us. Just look at Al Queda for proof. By that logic they are/were no threat either! (Sarcasm!)
Now the Iraqi people, absolutely they didn't want us there! That's why they spent all that time waving american flags and kissing our soldiers, oh, right except Bagdad Bob told us all that was a hollywood fabrication. (Sarcasm again)
Now they want us to leave, seriously, and this I honestly, no sarcasm, agree with. But we maybe oughtta wait till we find out exactly what happened to the Ace, King and Queen of spades as well as the other 30-40 plus missing members of the deck and the , by some estimates, 50-100 thousand loyalist troops and Rep. Guard units who just faded into the population.
Don't apologize ilunvy, The protestors may squawk the lodest but the latest polls show that 75% of the country agrees with you!
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kalcario
Apr 23, 2003, 6:02 PM
Post #34 of 66
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* to me, he's a douchebag. i wish i could tell you what his stances are, but any statements i've ever heard from him are just rhetoric blasting the republican party and trying to garner press for himself.*
Are you as weak at climbing as you are at thinking?
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mozea
Apr 23, 2003, 6:07 PM
Post #35 of 66
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In reply to: you all are a bunch of pansies! i should cut all of your bleeding hearts out. maybe if you lived in NYC or knew & loved people that were lost 9/11, you just might realize that Bush is fighting terrorism and those that support terrorism! but yet all you hypocrites are most likely the same jerks that mock the french... and who said it wasn't Bush to credit in the war but the credit should go to the soldiers.. well yeah the soldiers deserve credit, How about military strategy and the appointed chiefs of war?? get a clue or go live in Canada. sorry but this thread pissed me off
ignornace, ignornace...join the masses.
"Powell said Washington was committed to conservation and he cited the more than $50 million which the United States planned to spend on the Congo Basin Forest Partnership, which aims to protect the central African rainforest from encroachment by loggers, farmers and hunters. The Jane Goodall Institute, a partner in the project, is helping protect chimpanzees, gorillas and elephants from being hunted for bush meat."
funny...we spend $80 billion on a war...and $50 million on precious live. this must be the best of possible worlds (sarcasm to be noted, unless you're completely inept).
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cloudbreak
Apr 23, 2003, 6:16 PM
Post #36 of 66
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It comforts me to know we have so many "knowledgeable" politicians here at rc.com .
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iluvny
Apr 23, 2003, 6:17 PM
Post #37 of 66
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deleted by iluvNY for the reason this post was personal
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mtnjohn
Apr 23, 2003, 6:40 PM
Post #38 of 66
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Posts: 230
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There are so many things about george that could be said
Let's just remember a couple...
Just prior to sending our armed forces into war ( i won't digress into the illegallity of that alone) our prez severly cut vetrans benifits.
Use 'em and lose 'em according to bush.
Let 'em fight but reduce thier health care nad retirement, which were already pretty minimal.
Next, george and his pals knowingly chemically attacked our own troops by using depleted uranium munitions! Known to be radio active, known to cause cancers, and all of this was learned during the first gulf war when are troops came home and started dying off!
Thats not to mention what it does to the people of Iraq.
Oh, and by the way, depleted uranium munitions are on the UN list of illegall Weapons of Mass Destruction. Isn't that what we are supposed to be stopping from being used?
Now our vets will have massive debilitating disease and far less health care available.
What a leader!
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veilneb
Apr 23, 2003, 6:46 PM
Post #39 of 66
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IluvNY:
Is it so difficult to see that just because one thinks Bush is scum, and an eco-terrorist, it doesn't make you "pro-terrorism" and anti-New York?
I also don't need to remind you that he lost the popular vote. I pray every day that he looses in 2004.
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renobdarb
Apr 23, 2003, 7:21 PM
Post #40 of 66
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In reply to: "Debating the issues" with a bleeding heart liberal is like trying to teach a pig to sing.
I was wondering why my left nipple oozes blood... it must be my bleeding heart...
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bumblie
Apr 23, 2003, 7:26 PM
Post #41 of 66
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In reply to: Next, george and his pals knowingly chemically attacked our own troops by using depleted uranium munitions!
Where did you find this suspect tidbit?
Funny thing about our society today; anybody can put out a "factual" story that is, in fact, total bullsh*t. Somewhere along the way, people come to take these bogus stories as fact. That's too bad.
Another common, yet annoying, trait is that people become fixated on irrelevant issues i.e. Bush lost the popular vote. News flash - This doesn't mean a thing. Clinton failed to get a majority in both elections. It doesn't change the legitimacy of his Presidency.
It would be nice if those "bleedin' heart", touchy-feely types could focus more on facts and less on propaganda and emotional hot buttons.
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bumblie
Apr 23, 2003, 7:31 PM
Post #42 of 66
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Hey Renobdarb,
Have you run into my girlfriend.
Her name is McGill,
and she calls herself Lil,
but everyone knows her as Nancy.
Just wondering,
RR
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furryfrisbee
Apr 23, 2003, 7:35 PM
Post #43 of 66
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Posts: 260
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"Checked into his room,
Only to find Giddeon's Bible"
Now this thread is starting to get interesting!
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curt
Apr 23, 2003, 7:54 PM
Post #44 of 66
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There are so many misstatements in this thread that it is difficult to determine where to start. however...mtnjohn posted this:
In reply to: Next, george and his pals knowingly chemically attacked our own troops by using depleted uranium munitions! Known to be radio active, known to cause cancers, and all of this was learned during the first gulf war when are troops came home and started dying off!
DU may or may not cause cancers, but stating this as a fact is ridiculous. If it is a carcinogen, it is due to properties found in many heavy metals such as lead, mercury, cadmium etc--and not due to radioactivity.
So, what you "learned during the first Gulf war" was apparently nothing more than to buy into the BS being tossed around by those who know absolutely nothing.
Curt
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robmcc
Apr 23, 2003, 7:55 PM
Post #45 of 66
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In reply to: if everyone votes wisely, we should be rid of him in early november of 2004.
If everyone votes wisely, no one who wants the job will win.
Rob
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perozee
Apr 23, 2003, 7:57 PM
Post #46 of 66
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Registered: Apr 2, 2003
Posts: 268
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Bumblie about depleted uranium munitions
In reply to: Where did you find this suspect tidbit?
Use the google search engine on this site and learn. Here are just a few sites that should enlighten you:
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/iraq/article.jsp?id=99993627&sub=News%20update
http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList136/3105566F330BC2ECC1256B66005F8843
http://www.webcom.com/hrin/parker/depleteduranium.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publications/pdf/vonhippe.pdf
Even crappy CNN has an article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/04/23/sprj.nilaw.uranium.ap/
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newtons_law
Apr 23, 2003, 8:05 PM
Post #47 of 66
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Registered: Apr 19, 2002
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Hey, Dubya was in the Dacks last year. He was showing the world how much he cared for the environment. He was helping fix a trail. The funny thing is once the snow started to blow in he look kinda out of place and wonderfully cold in his classy penny loafers. To think he was in the national guard... kinda... kinda in the national guard.
G
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coldclimb
Apr 23, 2003, 8:09 PM
Post #48 of 66
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lol, now this has turned into a political "who likes who" fight in stead of the original topic, like so many other topics here. Oh well.
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cloudbreak
Apr 23, 2003, 8:13 PM
Post #49 of 66
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 917
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Half of you are mindless, pathetic sheep, who seem to know everything about nothing....and try to make a point with it!
Someone pleeeeze move this lame thread to the choss pile where it belongs..... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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curt
Apr 23, 2003, 8:19 PM
Post #50 of 66
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Registered: Aug 27, 2002
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mtnjohn,
In reply to: As a result of settlements, the administration has announced plans to remove wilderness protections from millions of acres of land in Utah. It also agreed to review protections for endangered species such as salmon and the northern spotted owl, reversed a Clinton-era ban on snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks and softened rules on logging.
If you think that placing additional restrictions on land access (as the Clinton administration did) will somehow magically exclude climbers and only apply to loggers and ranchers, I'm afraid you are mistaken.
Curt
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