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xanx
Jul 17, 2003, 4:27 AM
Post #51 of 110
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In reply to: Fred Rouhling has a "le projet" in Charente he thinks may be 9b+ but then again everybody has a project.
right :roll: :roll: i think we know how this will end....
ok boys, same time next month with a thread on Fred's project??
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akd
Jul 17, 2003, 4:54 AM
Post #52 of 110
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Actually, I have seen a photograph of "le project" (a terrible dyno/strech to a mono in a small roof, right to the 4th bolt of the "route") and it looked sick (however, the hole didn't seem very "natural", but... who knows?).
In the topo that I've got this project is separated in three parts: 8aFb, 8b/8a+Fb, and 8aFb (something like V11, V12/13, V11, I think).
Another thing, and this about Akira: (Junkie will get mad...)
One guy form the Desnivel magazine, José Manuel Velázquez, among different answers regarding Chilam balam (he wasn't defending Bernabé fernández), said that if you compared the photos from Akira taken in the magazine Roc’n’Wall nº 2 (sept/oct 1995) with the state of the route today, you could realize that some holds were "filled"....
http://www.desnivel.com/textos/foros/index.php?d=foro0005&f=5&id=6136&pag=2
(sorry, it's in spanish, but I can translate the part from Velázquez if anybody wants because it's very "juicy" in various things)
I've read the article of 8a.nu (which stands with Rouhling), and also know that Dani Andrada has been working on it. Maybe we should ask him...
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igcuesta
Jul 17, 2003, 7:41 AM
Post #53 of 110
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In reply to: Actually, I have seen a photograph of "le project" (a terrible dyno/strech to a mono in a small roof, right to the 4th bolt of the "route") and it looked sick (however, the hole didn't seem very "natural", but... who knows?). In the topo that I've got this project is separated in three parts: 8aFb, 8b/8a+Fb, and 8aFb (something like V11, V12/13, V11, I think). Another thing, and this about Akira: (Junkie will get mad...) One guy form the Desnivel magazine, José Manuel Velázquez, among different answers regarding Chilam balam (he wasn't defending Bernabé fernández), said that if you compared the photos from Akira taken in the magazine Roc’n’Wall nº 2 (sept/oct 1995) with the state of the route today, you could realize that some holds were "filled".... http://www.desnivel.com/textos/foros/index.php?d=foro0005&f=5&id=6136&pag=2 (sorry, it's in spanish, but I can translate the part from Velázquez if anybody wants because it's very "juicy" in various things) I've read the article of 8a.nu (which stands with Rouhling), and also know that Dani Andrada has been working on it. Maybe we should ask him...
Actually, as far as I know, Dani is "about" to send: he did Akira with one fall. Although he hasn't sent yet he said that the grade is, almost for sure, less than 9b. Actually he said that the route might even be 9a.
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junkie
Jul 17, 2003, 2:57 PM
Post #54 of 110
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In reply to: Another thing, and this about Akira: (Junkie will get mad...) One guy form the Desnivel magazine, José Manuel Velázquez, among different answers regarding Chilam balam (he wasn't defending Bernabé fernández), said that if you compared the photos from Akira taken in the magazine Roc’n’Wall nº 2 (sept/oct 1995) with the state of the route today, you could realize that some holds were "filled"....
Nah, I'll never get mad with someone posting facts, or direct quotes. It's when people start spraying old myths and rumous pretending that they ARE facts....
Yeah, I saw that little blurb, but I was unsure of the translation (my spanish is pretty weak). This is the first I'd heard of it, but it's interesting!My word, if Akira has not become the longest running controversy in Sport climbing.
And I also heard that Dani was trying it and is "close"... whatever that means. But with regards to him saying it's one grade or another, I had not heard anything. Maybe some magazine should interview him, since he is the newest 9a-club member :)
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akd
Jul 17, 2003, 7:48 PM
Post #55 of 110
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Thanx Ignacio, I didn't know that Dani had done Akira with "only" one fall. I knew that he had managed to solve all the different moves separately, but I didn't know how close he was.
I agree with junkie, since Akira, whether we like the route or Rouhling, or neither of both, has become a "classic" in this kind of discussions (mostly curiosity, nothing more); it would be nice to read an interview from such a fine climber like Dani Andrada about it.
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junkie
Jul 17, 2003, 8:00 PM
Post #56 of 110
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Alright Spanish RC.com members: go get us a picture of this beast. I want to see what a 15c looks like.
I've stood at the base of Oruja, La Rambla, and Realization. All were astounding routes to look at (and to boulder the first move of...). And now I would like to see this rig.
The Archidona cave was stunning! too bad 'bout the goat-shit.... What a route!!!! But I could not see the bolt-on on Oruja hold anywhere. Where on the route is it? Anyone know?
GIMMIE PICTURES!!!
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akd
Jul 17, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #57 of 110
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From Chilam Ballam I believe there will be pictures soon since Bernabé Fernández already talked with Desnivel about that issue.
Well, I know you've already seen Orujo, but if you want, I can send you a picture of Bernabé sending it. (I would submit it here, but I don't want to get in trouble, since I didn't took it myself)
By the way, while I've been in Spain and enjoyed very much my stay there, I must tell you that I'm not Spaniard.
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hasbeen
Jul 17, 2003, 10:52 PM
Post #58 of 110
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Post the photos. No one will squawk.
Besides, you're not getting paid. Just reference 'em and you're clear.
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akd
Jul 17, 2003, 11:20 PM
Post #59 of 110
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Here's a link to it:
http://sagc.ifrance.com/sagc/orujo.htm
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alvchen
Jul 18, 2003, 12:06 AM
Post #60 of 110
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:shock:
One thing's for sure. I'll never be able to climb that.
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astur
Jul 18, 2003, 11:16 PM
Post #61 of 110
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Well, see? Alex Hubber wrotte a second letter to Desnivel. Here you are the second one:
In reply to: Hello¡ After my letter has been published in desnivel's homepage it seems that all the people are upset about my position, because they see my behavior as agressive against Bernabe. In fact, it is not. About ten years ago i said that everybody has the right to propose a certain grade for his first ascent and this proposal has to remain up to the moment when it gets confirmed or changed. Therefore i also accept Bernabe's proposal - i wouldn't rate it down. But on the other side, i cannot take this proposal seriously as I can't see any references for such a high grade. Therefore i would be lying if would say that I believe in the correctness of Bernabe's proposal of the grade 9b+! What is indeed necessary that also desnivel shows its position, because after the isolated appearance of my letter it looks like that I am the only person on earth who thinks that 'chilam balam' could be potentially overgraded. Desnivel has to make the public understand what proposing a 9b+ really means and that it is somewhat indecent if you have no references. I am not the jealous, unfair asshole like it seems now with my statement being left alone. In fact, i tried to avoid that the same happens to Bernabe what has happened to Roughling. I am sure that Roughling is not happy about the fact that he has questionable credibility nowadays - and i am sure that Bernabe wouldn't be happy either. In fact, i give Bernabe a fair and honest chance, because i let him know my opinion - informing him about my doubts gives him the opportunity to answer. It only would be unfair if people start talking and spreading rumours and doubts behind his back - this is what we usually call as 'Talk is cheap' and this is what so many people simply do! Alexander.
I promiss to go and see the route for you all, as i live just a few km from the hot spot, he he he he!!!! I'll try and get some good pictures.
A escalar que son dos dias.
Hugo
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xanx
Jul 19, 2003, 1:37 AM
Post #62 of 110
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yo just out of curiosity, what is the hardest confirmed route Fernandez has sent? has he done any 9a's? i think he has done an 8c+...
if he has done at least one or two 9a's then his credibility for calling Orujo a 9a+ is a bit higher...
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igcuesta
Jul 21, 2003, 9:51 AM
Post #63 of 110
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Orujo has been tried by hardcore climbers like Pablo Barbero and Iker Pou (both of them 9a climbers) and they say it is waaaaaaaay hard.
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akd
Jul 22, 2003, 12:59 AM
Post #64 of 110
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All right Hugo!!
It would be great if you could take some pictures of the route!
I have just arrived from a weekend at the Sierras, so I'm hungrier than ever! jaja
By the way, Ignacio, I didn't know that Iker Pou tried Orujo. When was that?
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igcuesta
Jul 30, 2003, 8:30 AM
Post #65 of 110
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Ooooops! I meant Andrada, not Pou. Sorry.
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warloc
Jul 30, 2003, 9:24 AM
Post #66 of 110
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Chilam Balam's 9b+ has made all the spanish comunity nearly collapse the forums about it in Spain. I don't really know what to think. Bernabe made the first 8c+ in Spain, and after a lot of years it has been repeated and confirmed by "top-class" climbers. Also he made the first 9a+, and nobody has repeated it, so we'll have to wait until somebody sends it to know his opinion. But 9b+... ufff!!! probably too much, isn't it? Maybe he's wrong, or maybe climbers will call him as Wolfgang Güllich after a couple of years.
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sustainedclimber
Jul 31, 2003, 4:41 AM
Post #67 of 110
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Note to all...Unless you are people that can climb at that ability, who cares what the climb is rated or what this guy wants to rate it. I'm not saying I can climb at that level, or will I ever be able to. Let him feel good about his work, I mean, it took him three years, let's just give him a round of applause and his 15 minutes of fame until someone else claims to have climbed a 15d or 16a. Climbing is a wonderful sport, and I'm noticing way too many politics in the sport that only slightly bother me, but nonetheless, they shouldn't exist at all. Good day to all
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akd
Jul 31, 2003, 5:24 AM
Post #68 of 110
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In reply to: Ooooops! I meant Andrada, not Pou. Sorry.
Well, actually when Andrada first tried it, he said that it felt more like an 8c+ (I don't remember if he said that about the "first" Orujo, 9a, or the second, 9a+), but then he couldn't redpoint it, so...
And Hugo: what happened with the promised pictures? :?
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overlord
Aug 11, 2003, 12:26 PM
Post #69 of 110
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In reply to: 5.15a? Light duty. This guy from Malaga is calling 15c for his 250 foot long one pitch route that overhangs the base by 90 feet. Took him 3 years and he supposedly put up a 15a before. The link: http://desnivel.com/object.php?o=8157
hehehe, i just put up a new 5.16d at a local crag. and it took me the whole two hours.
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igcuesta
Aug 13, 2003, 9:42 AM
Post #70 of 110
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Dani Andrada has given his opinion about Chilam Balam:
http://www.desnivel.es/object.php?o=8441
For those who doesn't speak spanish: on this article, Andrada explains his thoughts about what he calls "climbing free". Daniel says that the important point is not the war about the gradings of the routes but the respect for the routes as they were created. Daniel criticizes the hold hadling in routes such as Akira or Orujo, where after the FA some holds were broken intentionally or filled with sika.
Andrada says that Chilam Balam implies a revolution but admits that he wouldn't never dare to give a route such a grade because he knows what might come over him in doing so. However Dani belives that, despite of possible lies or
exaggerations, nobody has to demonstrate his/her sendings.
Andrada also criticizes Huber's arguments about climbing grades and mathematics. Following this mathematics almost nobody has sent their propposals, says Andrada.
Regarding Chilam Balam itself, he says that in order to give an opinion the best thing to do is going to give try. He is going to try the route ASAP because (citing) "I was below some months ago, when it was just a project, and I can assure that it's the best line I've seen in my whole life. I don't know
wether it may be 9b+ or not, but as a climber and route opener, I'm dying of envy; I wish it was my own creation."
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igcuesta
Aug 13, 2003, 9:58 AM
Post #71 of 110
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akd: on the next number of Desnivel and Escalar magazines, Bernabé will be interviewed and some photos of Chilam Balam will appear.
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akd
Aug 13, 2003, 11:11 AM
Post #72 of 110
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Thank you Ignacio, and by the way, I read the article of Dani Andrada; quite significant in various aspects.
I knew that Bernabé filled some natural holes from Orujo, but I didn't know that he (intentionally?) broke a hold too. And in the matter of Akira, since Dani has been trying it, I wish he'd said more about his tries. Nevertheless, he says that the original line was like 8c+/9a.... Who knows... (it's not in my to-do list, anyway)
Salu2
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igcuesta
Oct 2, 2003, 9:14 AM
Post #73 of 110
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Dani Andrada has tried "Chilam Balam". His opinions will be published in the next Desnivel mag (Oct). He has said that Chilam Balam is harder than all the routes he has ever tried (including La Rambla, Orujo, Realization and Akira) and that it seems difficult for the grade to be less than 9b. He also said that you need "unhuman stamina" to send the route. Anyway, he has undergraduated the section grades proppossed by Bernabé. Bernabé proppossed 8c+,8b+/c,8c (trying to remember, ain't completely sure). Meanwhile Dani Andrada's grades are 8c/8b/8b+.
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azrockclimber
Apr 27, 2005, 7:32 PM
Post #75 of 110
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In reply to: Three years to get 250 ft. of climbing!?! How long did it take Dean Potter to do El Cap and Half Dome......... Whatever.
haha...Hell yeah! good point.. I would never spend that kind of time on any route no matter how hard.
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