|
rockprodigy
Jul 15, 2003, 2:59 PM
Post #1 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
Well?
The Nose route has always been the standard trade route for establishing the El Cap speed record...because it's always been the fastest route. Now, a shorter, but maybe more technically difficult route, has been done faster...is that the new record, or do they need to beat 2:48 on the Nose in order to be the El Cap speed kings?
|
|
|
|
|
lessismore
Jul 15, 2003, 3:17 PM
Post #2 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 13
|
Both Zodiac and the Nose are class six routes. From that point of view it's pretty clear - the new benchmark is 2h31min20s by the Hubers!
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 15, 2003, 3:29 PM
Post #3 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
More accurately, they are "grade" VI walls. "Class" refers to technical difficulty (ie. 4th class is using hands and feet for progress, but roped climbing is optional; 5th class is roped, technical climbing). "Grade" indicates the amount of time average mortals can expect to spend on a route. A grade VI climb you can expect to spend three to seven days.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
edge
Jul 15, 2003, 4:06 PM
Post #4 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
In reply to: Well? The Nose route has always been the standard trade route for establishing the El Cap speed record...because it's always been the fastest route. Now, a shorter, but maybe more technically difficult route, has been done faster...is that the new record, or do they need to beat 2:48 on the Nose in order to be the El Cap speed kings?
Apples and oranges.
|
|
|
|
|
alwaysforward
Jul 15, 2003, 4:20 PM
Post #5 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 979
|
It's class six. But I don't know what that means. I'm assuming it's aid/free mixed climbing. Can anyone tell me what sixth class is?
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jul 15, 2003, 6:02 PM
Post #6 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
Ed is right. It's a Grade VI wall not a class6 wall.
I can only assume that quote that refers to "sixth class" is a mistake due to terminology getting cofused by Euros that wrote the article on onsight.com. It's strange though...even in the article "sixth class" is presented in quotations. I guess it could be an expression I've never heard of. Doesn't really make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 15, 2003, 6:57 PM
Post #7 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
In reply to: It's class six. But I don't know what that means.
Priceless.
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 15, 2003, 7:30 PM
Post #8 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
Fourth class- scramble, fifth class- technical free climbing, sixth class- aid climbing.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jul 15, 2003, 7:50 PM
Post #9 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
I guess that's what they mean Flamer but you don't often hear an entire wall described as 4th, 5th or 6th class. 99% of all walls require both 5th and 6th class climbing. You can be sure that the Hubers freed portions of Zodiac.
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 15, 2003, 8:44 PM
Post #10 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
Yeah I agree with you! Sounds like another case of Euro's getting confused.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Jul 15, 2003, 8:50 PM
Post #11 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
I'm gonna say anything right of Tangerine Trip or left of Never Never Land is too short to qualify as an overall speed record for El Cap.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 9:15 PM
Post #12 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
With few exceptions (i.e., East Butt), the routes leading to the top of El Cap are Grade VI routes/walls. This means they're, uh, really really long, like a few days (though speed can vary from 2 hours to 2 weeks) Unless you're Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell, or other similar mutant, all of these routes have mandatory Class 6 climbing- aid. These routes also have mandatory Class 5 climbing- free climbing, "normal" rock climbing for the less-technical-speak-driven. Hell, some may have Class 4- known in our little world as scrambling. And as long as we're on the topic, Grade V routes are smaller walls, though still aid/big wall undertakings- such as the West Face of LT. These take about 2 days, though non-pro, average joes can do them in a single-day push. Grade IV routes are all day affairs, or at least have the potential to be for many, that can maybe score ya a bivy if you get hosed somewhere along the way (think those long multi-pitch routes at Yosemite- Snake Dike, Royal Arches, After Six, Steck-Salathe, East Butt of El Cap). Grades III, II, and I correspondingly refer to the time commitment required, and though not exclusively, tend to refer to free routes. That's (routes that are predominantly) Class 5, remember.
Grades (NOT YDS DIFFICULTY RATINGS in this exact context), Class. la la la. I love me a good terminology/vocab quibble :P
So there. The Sport Muffin Climbsomething has spoken.
:shock:
|
|
|
|
|
karlbaba
Jul 15, 2003, 9:18 PM
Post #13 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
|
6th class refers to aid climbing. The Nose goes free. Zodiac probably will soon with variations.
"Overall El Cap" speed record is just posing for sponsors but what the Hubers did was totally incredible and on par with Yuji and Hans also incredible feat.
Batman could beat up spiderman on fixed lines I beccha. That's why they call it "Batmaning!"
The point being, this is near superhero stuff. I bet the Hubers could but a good time in on the Nose as well.
Peace
karl
|
|
|
|
|
atg200
Jul 15, 2003, 9:20 PM
Post #14 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317
|
sport muffin climbsomething is on crack if she thinks Snake Dike, Royal Arches, and After Six are grade IV.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 9:27 PM
Post #15 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: Grade IV routes are all day affairs, or at least have the potential to be for many, that can maybe score ya a bivy if you get hosed somewhere along the way
As I said, they CAN be, just as they can be done without incident in a few hours, or done in a couple hours car to car. These are, Andrew, merely anecdotal, and obviously not exclusively so. I've known folks who had to bivy while on Royal Arches or Snake Dike "expeditions" or crawled into camp at 4 in the morning, nearly a full 24 hours after departing.
But am I on crack? Good god no- I'm too classy for that shizz! Crushed and snorted in Beverly Hills style, only 8)
|
|
|
|
|
atg200
Jul 15, 2003, 9:38 PM
Post #16 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317
|
The folks you are refering to are what are known as "gumbies" climbsomething. In no possible way are the routes i called BS on grade IV. Spending the night on After Six doesn't make it a grade IV, it makes you too incompetent to do a grade II in a day(the others are at least grade III). A grade IV is something that takes a party competent at the grade a very long day to complete, and that may cause someone not so solid to bivy - like most of the free routes on the Diamond or the Steck-Salathe. In the desert, a grade IV is something someone really fast can do in a day, or fixing a few pitches and then firing for most of us - like all grade IVs in the Fisher Towers(with the Colorado Ridge on the Kingfisher being a light grade IV) or Spaceshot in Zion.
If you use your logic of using any parties time to determine the grade, everything ptpp has ever done is a Mt Asgard style grade VII.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 15, 2003, 9:42 PM
Post #17 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
Gotta say I've never heard of aid climbing refered to as "sixth class climbing" until now. Is that a European thing?
Certainly in this context, the intent of the original post is to highlight that the Hubers climbed a route that normally takes three or more days in a matter of hours. Not to emphasize and distinguish that they climbed an aid route (in reference to sixth class climbing, this could be ANY aid route -- short or long) instead of a free route (5th class climbing).
Agreed? (of course not...)
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 9:43 PM
Post #18 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Sheesh. So I was too liberal with my examples. Pardon.
Gumbies they may well be, or sometimes not, whatever.
Man, I even KNOW the aid climbing forum to be crusty, and yet I brought my Sporto Arse in here. My bad. Arrr, matey!
;) :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 15, 2003, 9:45 PM
Post #19 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
In reply to: Sheesh. So I was too liberal with my examples. Pardon. Gumbies they may well be, or sometimes not, whatever. Man, I even KNOW the aid climbing forum to be crusty, and yet I brought my Sporto Arse in here. My bad. Arrr, matey! ;) :lol:
BEAT IT!
:P :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 9:46 PM
Post #20 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: Gotta say I've never heard of aid climbing refered to as "sixth class climbing" until now. Is that a European thing?
In reply to: Agreed? (of course not...)
:P
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 9:47 PM
Post #21 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: BEAT IT! :P :lol:
Good thing Ed thinks I'm hot, at least enough to somewhat tolerate ;)
|
|
|
|
|
ambler
Jul 15, 2003, 10:13 PM
Post #22 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1690
|
I think the old standard, paraphrasing Roper's red book (196?), was something like this:
Grade I, a few hours
Grade II, half a day
Grade III, most of a day
Grade IV, a whole day or a day and a half
Grade V, same as a Grade V, because the experts capable of doing these climbs are capable of doing them faster.
Grade VI, two or more days
It sounds subjective, but it wasn't meant to be. All climbs had a grade assigned in the guidebook. For example, Monday Morning Slab is grade I. After Six would be grade II. Royal Arches was grade III. East Buttress of El Cap was grade IV, and Leaning Tower was grade V.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Jul 16, 2003, 12:20 AM
Post #23 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
FWIW, here's the direct context from the website:
"The made the blistering fast ascent of Zodiac (VI, 5.8, A3) on Sunday 15th June 2003. As it's a "sixth class" route most parties take two to seven days to climb Zodiac which is 16 pitches (approximately 2000ft) high. With this ascent the Huber brothers shattered their own previous record for Zodiac (3:08) and also made the faster ever ascent of El Capitan via a sixth class route (the previous record was 2:48:30 for The Nose route by Yuji Hirayama and Hans Florine)."
Clearly, the use of the phrase "sixth class" is a mistake as the author is directly refering to how much time average people can be expected to take to climb this route. It should read "grade VI".
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
calpolyclimber
Jul 16, 2003, 12:57 AM
Post #24 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 360
|
Snake Dike is on Half Dome... Not El Capitan. Unless there are two?
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 16, 2003, 2:45 AM
Post #25 of 53
(5254 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
In reply to: If you use your logic of using any parties time to determine the grade, everything ptpp has ever done is a Mt Asgard style grade VII.
Dude! That is frick'n funny!
josh
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
