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dingus
Sep 11, 2003, 4:18 PM
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Yes it's always invigorating when a rail thin, rib showing partner tells you, "Dude, just drop 10 pounds." I don't know about the rest of you with the more Whillansesque physiques out there, but losing 10 pounds around my house ain't cheap either. If you add up the cost of a diet (eating nothing is more expensive than it sounds), it may very well exceed the cost of saving 10 pounds off your pack. Well it might!!! DMT
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sspssp
Sep 12, 2003, 10:53 PM
Post #27 of 62
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In reply to: I'll second that. I have a digital fish scale. I know what every single piece of my gear weighs. I keep a list in a spreadsheet. Before a trip I check off on the list what I'm planning to take. The spreadsheet tells me to within a half pound what my full pack will weigh (including food and water). I then pare down the list to get the weight I want. After a trip I review my list to remove anything I could have left behind. I save my lists for each trip so I have a record of what I took on what type of trips (season, type of climbing, number of nights out, etc.). I would be interested in seeing a list or two (of items with weights). Say for a 2 or 3 day summer Alpine trip.
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alpiner
Sep 12, 2003, 11:28 PM
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Not to mention that losing weight is expensive too...just eating less is not the answer as has been proven countless times. You can't lose more than 2 lbs. per week with any hope of keeping it off. And that has to be fat loss, not muscle or water. So it will require eating better (costs more usually) as well as working out (requires a dozen or so hours per week). Of course that's good and will help immensely more than titanium widgets but it ain't cheap.
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wandering_dusk
Sep 14, 2003, 8:58 AM
Post #29 of 62
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Hey thanks everyone for all the great info... keep it coming... 8) And I would also like to see some of those gear lists you have "Hugepedro," if there's anyway you could put them on the web or something it would be real cool... mabe with a link...
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kimgraves
Sep 18, 2003, 6:25 PM
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Hi Guys, Just read Ray Jardin’s “Beyond Backpacking”. It’s not about climbing, but it’s well worth reading for going lite weight. I tried some of his suggestions on a trip to the Sierra’s I just got back from. They all worked very well. He claims to have gotten his pack (not including food and water) down to less than 10 lbs. This is a complete kit whether for an overnight or a summer long. I started with my pack. I’m using an Osprey Aether 45. VERY comfortable, plenty big enough and weights just over a pound. Regards, Kim
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bxt
Sep 18, 2003, 8:42 PM
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Nice thread. My $0.02 to keep it going: Use a shovel as a stove platform. Consider a single wall tent. Agree on the Alpine Bod. Grivel Air Tech ice axe has been good to me. Fleece vests can be useful (they also provide good mobility when climbing). Agree that Titanium ice screws blow- to bail, its lighter to rap off some slings threaded in an ice V from two ice screw holes. Snowshoe as a makeshift shovel (for small jobs). Xerox needed pages from guide book. (obvious) As for packing- it seems hugepedro has it nailed. My lessor method for packing goes like this- first I lay my gear out in two piles- one of items of "must bring" (storm shells, rope, etc) another of "would like to bring" (stove, extra socks)- I then balance out the "would likes" to my desired pack weight with some decisions left to be made at the trail head. Really, it's about changing your tact, you almost want to pick out a realistic pack weight for the trip and then pack- not decide what you want to bring and be stuck with a monster load. Last thing- if on your trip you don't say at least once "I wish I had ...." - then you brought too much stuff. :)
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ep
Sep 18, 2003, 8:55 PM
Post #32 of 62
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Can anyone recommend a decent but inexpensive scale for weighing items?
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hugepedro
Sep 18, 2003, 9:11 PM
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I use a Berkely 50# digital fish scale. They retail for $40 but there's some on e-bay for $15. http://www.berkley-fishing.com/products/Detail.cfm?PassProductInfoId=832&PassPrevious=Products&PassLevel=1
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stick233
Sep 18, 2003, 9:21 PM
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an easy shelter to use if you have the tree availability is the Hennesey Hammock... it's covered and would mean no tent or sleeping pad. it's light as hell too...
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squish
Sep 18, 2003, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: an easy shelter to use if you have the tree availability is the Hennesey Hammock... it's covered and would mean no tent or sleeping pad. it's light as hell too... Good luck finding trees for hanging it in the alpine, though.
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tcollins
Sep 18, 2003, 9:33 PM
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Well I don't climb alpine yet, but I have backpacked a lot in my time. A great desire came over me to cut pack weight as it was getting out of hand. Some careful planning helped, but I wanted less. That ultra lite stuff is pricey. A Sil Nylon stuff sac for $12, no way. Well i got my hands on a used sewing machine and started making my own gear. Down quilt (15oz and good to 35 deg) my Sil Nylon tarp and bug net, wind shirt, stuff sacs and my own stove. Cut about 5 lbs or more right there. And by making it myself I saved over $300. If it breaks I know I can fix it too. Just got about $150 in materials today in the mail. My EPIC rain coat is next, a replacement top for my wife's backpack that she lost, a new windstopper fleece jacket, and a 4500 cu in backpack that weighs 12 oz are all next. Saving hundreds by doing it myself. Won't all be perfect, but if I rip the crap out of it at least I'm out only some time and a little money instead of a ton of money. I had to do something with all the rain this summer ;-) TD
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hugepedro
Sep 18, 2003, 9:35 PM
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For those who have asked to see my fabulous lists, :lol: PM me your email address and I'll send you a spreadsheet.
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crotch
Sep 18, 2003, 9:38 PM
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One thing we do is share a sleeping bag. You can buy something that zips to your sleeping bag and mates it to your ground pads. Voila, 1 bag for 2 people. I use the "Elbow Room" but there are others available. Some companies make sleeping bags designed to fit 2 people which are lighter than 2 separate bags.
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jhump
Sep 19, 2003, 4:05 PM
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I previously used the aforementioned Berkely 50lbs fish scale to weigh things. I wanted much more accuracy so I bought a kitchen scale at Bed Bath and Beyond. It is a white, digital, Polder brand scale, with about 5 LBS maximum load and is accurate to 1 gram. Retail price $30. Well worth it. You would not believe what some things weigh that you don't even add when you are estimating pack weight. The 5 pound max is high enough as no single thing I carry weighs more than 4 lbs. Just take bulky items and stuff them in a stuffsack, weigh it, then weigh the stuffsack and subtract. Yes, stuffsacks add up a ton. My "lite" compression sack goes 137g, but my almost as small Golite silsack goes 27g. 110g saved, a frickin quarter pound saved on a single stuffsack. Only using a digital kitchen scale can tell you this stuff. Most manufacturer weights are inaccurate or not available.
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ep
Sep 19, 2003, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: is a white, digital, Polder brand scale, with about 5 LBS maximum load and is accurate to 1 gram. Is that the one with the built-in timer? The info I read said it displays in 1/8 ounce (1 gram) increments. 1/8 oz is not 1 gram, so does that mean it can display in ounces or grams? Also, display resolution and accuracy are not the same thing. Have you tested its accuracy?
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jhump
Sep 19, 2003, 10:02 PM
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Yes it does have a timer. I don't know what for. The scale displays in grams or 1/8 oz. I use the grams measure. I have not scientifically tested its accuracy. But when I put a 36g Neutrino on it, it weighs 36g. It remains accurate down to just a few grams. 2 Neutrinos weigh 71 g, so they really weigh less than 36g individually. I was surprised it could even read the difference between 1 and 2 grams, but it does. Hanging fish scales usually require a few oz just to register above 0.00. This scale will respond to a 1g load.
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ep
Sep 20, 2003, 12:48 AM
Post #42 of 62
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In reply to: 2 Neutrinos weigh 71 g, so they really weigh less than 36g individually. Either that or the scale accuracy is off. Hard to know which without a reference. Nonetheless, it sounds like it's probably pretty good. I searched around and found other scales in the same price range that had stated accuracies on the order of +/- 1 gram. Thanks. Now I can go and buy another toy.
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pico23
Sep 20, 2003, 1:26 AM
Post #43 of 62
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In reply to: Hi Guys, Just read Ray Jardin’s “Beyond Backpacking”. It’s not about climbing, but it’s well worth reading for going lite weight. I tried some of his suggestions on a trip to the Sierra’s I just got back from. They all worked very well. He claims to have gotten his pack (not including food and water) down to less than 10 lbs. This is a complete kit whether for an overnight or a summer long. I started with my pack. I’m using an Osprey Aether 45. VERY comfortable, plenty big enough and weights just over a pound. Regards, Kim 15lbs is reasonable without any special books. Simply leave ALL non essentials behind. Buy/make a light sleeping bag (for 3 season you really only need a one sided bag and a good pad), a standard light pack and either leave the stove or use an alcohol or esbit. When you get into ultalight backpacking you forfeit luxury so a hot meal isn't essential for summer hiking. Use a tarp (preferably siltarp) or bug sack or both. Leave the rain gear at home and take some nylon wind gear and accept getting wet. All stuff covered in Jardines book. Those last 5lbs really start to take effort and cost money. I've never been a fan of the umbrella in Jardines book, it might work but I've never enjoyed lugging an umbrella on city streets and seem to always get wet so I find it hard to believe they work anywhere else. There are other things in the book that don't seem to work well for me either. Overall though it's a good book. Food and water are the real killers anyway. I did the northville placid trail a few years ago and ended up with a near 40lb summer pack over a 10 day trip. I needed a heavier pack then I would have taken adding 3 more pounds to the mix. I kept weight down by drinking 20-32oz of water at each water source and never carrying more then a 16-32oz between. by the end of the trip my pack was nice and light but 10 days of food really add up. My overall pack weight minus food and water was under 25 pounds including a book, and SLR and lightweight tripod, and some other (non electronic) sanity items for my solo journey.
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pico23
Sep 20, 2003, 1:35 AM
Post #44 of 62
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In reply to: an easy shelter to use if you have the tree availability is the Hennesey Hammock... it's covered and would mean no tent or sleeping pad. it's light as hell too... I want a hammock pretty bad. They sell used GI surplus or new military spec knockoffs for about $35 but bear in mind these only work in the summer and below treeline. Also bear in mind you don't need a pad for comfort but you need insulating qualities or you will be cold. Even with a pad hammocks are cold. Hammocks are great for the tropics but even a nice 50-55F summer night can be a bit chilly when you have air constantly circulating below you, worse then sleeping on cold ground without a pad. I remember my friend waking up teeth chattering after spending a few hours in a hammock in cool overnight temps. He couldn't wait to get his bag back on the ground but he couldn't warm up till he boiled some tea. The thing I like about them is not having to find someplace flat to sleep. Places I see them useful is mid summer in the steep wet hillsides of the Daks and Whites where finding flat/dry sleeping is sometimes a challenge. Add in a busy weekend and your definitely sleeping on a 45* incline in some creek bed while the campers enjoy a restful night.
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atg200
Sep 22, 2003, 4:21 PM
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this should be split into two threads - one for people who do some backpacking and alpine climbing in the continental US in summer where dropping weight is nice and gear isn't usually a matter of survival, and another for people doing serious mountaineering way out in the boonies. at any rate, a few questions. i am looking at getting new crampons and axes that are much lighter. 1. has anyone used the aluminum 10 point crampons, and if so what do you think? i will keep my steel crampons to use for most things, just wondering if the aluminum crampons can hold up to a 3-4 day technical route in a place like alaska or peru? 2. for long walking axes, what has people's experience been with the ultralights out there? i currently use an old bd alpamayo, which is very heavy, but so beefy that i should be passing it down to grandkids. again, i am keeping the heavy one to use in colorado and places where rocky abuse is likely and weight is not a factor. 3. for technical axes, what are light and fast fans using? i am selling my old charlet moser quasars because they are really heavy and the handle is a little too think for my hands. i don't do a lot of pure waterfall ice anymore and have no real interest in hard mixed climbing, but i do a lot of steep alpine ice in the mountains where a walking axe doesn't cut it.
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crotch
Sep 22, 2003, 4:37 PM
Post #46 of 62
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In reply to: 2. for long walking axes, what has people's experience been with the ultralights out there? i currently use an old bd alpamayo, which is very heavy, but so beefy that i should be passing it down to grandkids. again, i am keeping the heavy one to use in colorado and places where rocky abuse is likely and weight is not a factor. I'm loving my BD Raven Pro. Very light, maybe too light to penetrate ice very well, but fine for self arrest/self belay type of stuff. I'm wondering about BD's Whippet's. Anyone used these?
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hugepedro
Sep 22, 2003, 5:55 PM
Post #47 of 62
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In reply to: 2. for long walking axes, what has people's experience been with the ultralights out there? i currently use an old bd alpamayo, which is very heavy, but so beefy that i should be passing it down to grandkids. again, i am keeping the heavy one to use in colorado and places where rocky abuse is likely and weight is not a factor. 3. for technical axes, what are light and fast fans using? i am selling my old charlet moser quasars because they are really heavy and the handle is a little too think for my hands. i don't do a lot of pure waterfall ice anymore and have no real interest in hard mixed climbing, but i do a lot of steep alpine ice in the mountains where a walking axe doesn't cut it. I've been using the Grivel Jorasses the past couple years, and love it. At 70cm it's not real long, but it does the job (especially if your breaking trail, when length is less of an issue). The best thing about it is it has a reverse curved pick and technical leash, so when I know things are going to get steep I just carry a 50cm second tool and I'm in business. Although it's not an ultra light at 1.5 pounds, the versatility saves me the weight of carrying 2 ice tools.
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dead_milkman
Sep 22, 2003, 5:59 PM
Post #48 of 62
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In reply to: 1. has anyone used the aluminum 10 point crampons, and if so what do you think? i will keep my steel crampons to use for most things, just wondering if the aluminum crampons can hold up to a 3-4 day technical route in a place like alaska or peru? No, probably not. Stick to something like the Sabretooth, IMO.
In reply to: 2. for long walking axes, what has people's experience been with the ultralights out there? i currently use an old bd alpamayo, which is very heavy, but so beefy that i should be passing it down to grandkids. again, i am keeping the heavy one to use in colorado and places where rocky abuse is likely and weight is not a factor. I've used a Grivel Air Tech Racing with good sucess on its own for 50 degree ice and some rock... served well enough, though I would prefer a steel spike for better durability.
In reply to: 3. for technical axes, what are light and fast fans using? i am selling my old charlet moser quasars because they are really heavy and the handle is a little too think for my hands. i don't do a lot of pure waterfall ice anymore and have no real interest in hard mixed climbing, but i do a lot of steep alpine ice in the mountains where a walking axe doesn't cut it. Use whatever you're comfortable with... Fu*k scrimping on ice tools. DM
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chalkbag
Sep 22, 2003, 9:22 PM
Post #49 of 62
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In reply to: 2. for long walking axes, what has people's experience been with the ultralights out there? I have a BD Raven Pro too, used it mostly as a walking stick. It's good for that. Climbing on ~45-degree snow/firn with it and a tool was fine but I haven't really tried it on anything more technical; haven't tried cutting steps with it either. Note that there are ice axes that are half the weight (e.g., Cassin Ghost, Camp XLA210) but they come with an aluminium [edited] pick.
In reply to: 3. for technical axes, what are light and fast fans using? Several of my friends are using Grivel Rambos. I tried them and liked them too. I have Grivel Machine Light myself and they are great for climbing but are next to useless for belaying.
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musicheck
Sep 22, 2003, 10:24 PM
Post #50 of 62
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Here's a new one: tie a bunch of helium baloons to your pack :lol:
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