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dingus
Oct 30, 2003, 8:55 PM
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In reply to: Third, who the f*ck are you to decide whether I'm tossing around a word or if I really mean it. I am not Buddhist, but that does not limit me from using the word zen.
Nor does it keep you firmly rooted to the world of logic. But we can't help that either. Your point is unreasonable.
In reply to: I think that the word "zen" is the only word that could possibly describe the feeling that climbing gives me. Why don't you stop insulting things that you don't have the slightest understanding of.
Why don't you lead through example?
DMT
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kimble
Oct 30, 2003, 9:18 PM
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I have solo'd for many different reasons. One notable one is that it's less expensive and healtheir than drugs.
live long and climb hard!
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cracklover
Oct 30, 2003, 10:05 PM
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I have never soloed (more than boulder problem height) for myself, but twice I have soloed on very easy (for me) fifth class terrain to help stuck climbers. Sad to say, I feel this suggests a flaw in my character. I'm not suggesting that I should be unwilling to put myself on the line for others, but rather that it's sad that I lack the wherewithal to take the same level of risk when the only thing on the the line is my own satisfaction. But hey, part of the game of climbing is about learning about oneself...
Dingus, several times I've done: One or two fifth class moves on mostly easier terrain; long exposed third class in stiff wind; short fourth class unroped. Perhaps it's just me, but when I'm about to undertake one of the above, it feels altogether different in kind, not just in degree, from the experience I get when looking up at a long fifth class climb and imagining what it would be like to be on it without a rope.
GO
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watersprite
Oct 30, 2003, 10:35 PM
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Dingus - I love you man
I practice meditation and have followed several Eastern regimes (yoga and meditation). My daughter is a practicing Zen Buddist. I would never insult a religion and if I have offended anyone with my comments, I sincerely apologize.
my only point is - yes, I know what you are talking about, it's called being "in the zone." fine, if you can control all the variables. but in this situation (free solo climbing) I don't believe you have control of the mountain. If you've got the huevos, go ahead on...
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rvega
Oct 30, 2003, 11:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I didn't mean Zen Buddhism the religious discipline, but the slang "zen" as in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," the term "zen" being tossed around like Feng Shui and doesn't really mean Zen the religion. Look here... First of all, I don't toss around the word "zen" like Feng Shui. Second, Zen is not a religion. It is a concept within a religion. Third, who the f*ck are you to decide whether I'm tossing around a word or if I really mean it. I am not Buddhist, but that does not limit me from using the word zen. It's not something that I took out of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mainenance, but something I try very hard to make a part of my daily life, whether I'm climbing, working, studying, or just hanging out. I think that the word "zen" is the only word that could possibly describe the feeling that climbing gives me. Why don't you stop insulting things that you don't have the slightest understanding of.
I think you are being bit sensitive if not melodramitic. Zen is used a common form of slang these days. From reading her posts I serioulsy doubt watersprite was meaning offense to someone's religion. Take it easy buddie. And from the stuff you said its pretty obvious you are not a Buddist. Telling someone to f* off like that is not what I think of when I think of the word zen that's for sure.
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bigfoot
Oct 31, 2003, 12:23 AM
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Thanks for the comments everyone. It helps me put a friends death in a different perspective. To those of you who said "if you have to ask you wouldnt understand," the reason I asked is because I dont understand, that is the point of asking questions- to clarify something which you previously did not know or understand. I was trying to get an idea of the mindset soloers have, and their reasons for risking their life. I dont like to rely on the rope, but i like that its there just in case. i know there are many ways to die climbing, but not one of you can tell me that roping up in general is just as safe as free soloing. If you fall on a rope you have a chance of being caught, if you fall without a rope, you hit the ground.
I know routes are never perfect, and people runout sections, solo easy stuff and so on, but at this point, I will not climb unless ancored in to something, call me what you will- I love life
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crag
Oct 31, 2003, 12:45 AM
Post #58 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: why do you solo? Why not? and my favorite because it is there
If some noob decides she wants to be the next Dano more power to her hope she makes it. If she craters she died doing what she loved and what’s wrong with that? I’d say that we need to be more concerned about what we do as individuals and less what a small faction does.
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crag
Oct 31, 2003, 12:47 AM
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In reply to: Thanks for the comments everyone. It helps me put a friends death in a different perspective.
Sorry to read about your friend, may peace be with you and their family.
Best Wishes,
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telemarkist
Oct 31, 2003, 1:01 AM
Post #60 of 70
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when I first started climbing it became very clear to me that the rope I tied into only made me as safe as my skill with pro, that and my belayers skill and attension to detail, I learned to fall and to trust the system that we all use to stay alive out there but along the way I kept finding these places that required mental skills as much as physical skills. sure because of when I learned, people like bachar where heros to me, to see him or derick climb, how could you not envy guys with skills like that? do I think I'm capable of that? not even in those days did I think I could get anywhere close, I'm a realist. after a few trips to tuolumne and full pitches of 5.6 or .7 with 1 bolt or none, it became clear that ropes were good for nothing but drag in some places, mental skills were the real key to staying out of trouble there. chasing bolts in those days was a whole different game and for the most part was not where people learned to climb. do I solo? yes, but only as a form of training in hopes that when I really need them I'll have the skills to climb another day
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mrme
Oct 31, 2003, 2:18 AM
Post #61 of 70
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I didn't mean Zen Buddhism the religious discipline, but the slang "zen" as in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," the term "zen" being tossed around like Feng Shui and doesn't really mean Zen the religion. Look here... First of all, I don't toss around the word "zen" like Feng Shui. Second, Zen is not a religion. It is a concept within a religion. Third, who the f*ck are you to decide whether I'm tossing around a word or if I really mean it. I am not Buddhist, but that does not limit me from using the word zen. It's not something that I took out of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mainenance, but something I try very hard to make a part of my daily life, whether I'm climbing, working, studying, or just hanging out. I think that the word "zen" is the only word that could possibly describe the feeling that climbing gives me. Why don't you stop insulting things that you don't have the slightest understanding of. I think you are being bit sensitive if not melodramitic. Zen is used a common form of slang these days. From reading her posts I serioulsy doubt watersprite was meaning offense to someone's religion. Take it easy buddie. And from the stuff you said its pretty obvious you are not a Buddist. Telling someone to f* off like that is not what I think of when I think of the word zen that's for sure.
right on i think they do have a problem. just start bashing every one elses religon because you have a problem with some one else belif even if it is that zen sucs so bad they use it as slang. get a clue lifes about relationships with yourself and the people around you instead of bashing someone tell them what you acomplish through zen other than your bad attitude. and even if they still think your belifs suc @ss its there right to chose that thought.
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hroldan
Nov 3, 2003, 9:06 PM
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wise words!!!! 8)
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passthepitonspete
Nov 8, 2003, 7:01 AM
Post #63 of 70
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Because you never have to get up before noon if you don't feel like it, and you can drink all the beer....
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robmcc
Nov 8, 2003, 2:46 PM
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I'm going to go with this.
Because it's the most effective way to flush all the crap out of your brain that you can't otherwise get rid of.
I expect no one to really like that answer, but then I don't climb for you, do I? 8)
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rokshoxbkr19
Nov 8, 2003, 3:26 PM
Post #65 of 70
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I always try to remeber these 2 things;
1. There are a lot of old climbers, and there a lot of bold climbers, but there aint a lot of old, bold climbers, lol.
2. Sometimes I trip going down the stairs.
That said, I have just started dabbling with free soloing and I love the rush and the focus it gives me.
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jv
Nov 8, 2003, 8:23 PM
Post #66 of 70
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In reply to: my only point is - yes, I know what you are talking about, it's called being "in the zone." fine, if you can control all the variables. but in this situation (free solo climbing) I don't believe you have control of the mountain. If you've got the huevos, go ahead on...
Are you saying that being 'in the zone' implies controlling all the variables? Or that it's fine for 'you' (or anyone) if you can control all the variables? I agree that you can't control all the variables in free soloing. But neither can you control all the variables while roped up. It's a matter of degree.
One of the main reasons I climb is for the moments between stepping above my last pro, and clipping the next pro. That feeling is like dope, and I pursue it relentlessly. I occasionally free solo. I find that the percentage of those moments of being in the zone is much greater while soloing, even though I solo several grades below my limit. I speculate that this is because awareness of the risk of a fatal mistake focuses the mind and body completely on the points of contact with the rock, and the rock immediately around you.
I suspect this feeling is related to the euphoria that some soldiers experience during combat. At some point fear is transcended. The mind becomes intensely focused on simply doing what must be done to survive, or in climbing, to continue on to the relative safety of the top, the next ledge, the next good hold, the next bad hold, and so on. To get the same degree of satisfaction while leading on a rope, I have to increase the difficulty, or the potential length of the fall. Risk is a key element in producing the desired effect.
JV
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jv
Nov 8, 2003, 8:27 PM
Post #67 of 70
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In reply to: my only point is - yes, I know what you are talking about, it's called being "in the zone." fine, if you can control all the variables. but in this situation (free solo climbing) I don't believe you have control of the mountain. If you've got the huevos, go ahead on...
Are you saying that being 'in the zone' implies controlling all the variables? Or that it's fine for 'you' (or anyone) if you can control all the variables? I agree that you can't control all the variables in free soloing. But neither can you control all the variable while roped up. It's a matter of degree.
One of the main reasons I climb is for the moments between stepping above my last pro, and clipping the next pro. That feeling is like dope, and I pursue it relentlessly. I occasionally free solo. I find that the percentage of those moments of being in the zone is much greater while soloing, even though I solo several grades below my limit. I speculate that this is because of the awareness of the risk of a fatal mistake focuses the mind and body completely on the points of contact with the rock, and the rock immediately around you.
I suspect this feeling is related to the euphoria that some soldiers experience during combat. At some point fear is transcended. The mind becomes intensely focused on simply doing what must be done to survive, or in climbing, to continue on to the relative safety of the top, the next ledge, the next good hold, the next bad hold, and so on. To get the same degree of satisfaction while leading on a rope, I have to increase the difficulty, or the potential length of the fall. Risk is a key element in producing the desired effect.
JV
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texhanson
Nov 8, 2003, 8:31 PM
Post #68 of 70
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Registered: Nov 6, 2003
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Soloing is fun, but mad. I love it, but recomend you don't try anything close to what you climb on rope. For instance, if you are a solid 5.10 climber, don't solo anything above a 7. Ya dig? I hope otherwise you'll be digging yourself a grave. Personally, I think paddeling is more dangerous. Leave the rope at home, but play it safe- stay within your limits. Theres no turning back once you start...
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herm
Nov 9, 2003, 12:07 AM
Post #69 of 70
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i trad climb to 5.12, pretty solid up to 5.11. boulder to V8. for the last few years i have only roped up about 3 times. i solo lots of routes in the mountains;
i find that i am consistently solid in all situations only to about 5.7.
i have been climbing 25+ yrs. I stay in shape.
treat all solos as singular events. don't assume that you are automatically good to go. it is ok to walk away......
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ronamick
Nov 9, 2003, 1:59 AM
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You'll see it differently after you've been climbing longer, and if you keep at it. To me it is the finest climbing experience possible. With the rope and gear out of the way, you just climb.
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