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mike_ok
Jan 27, 2004, 1:59 PM
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In reply to: Jesus!!! Where were all you guys for the 2 years we made these and couldn't GIVE them away. Keep it up and we might just start making them again. Mal
In High School :lol: :lol: :lol:
Put me on the list... I've been scouring the internet for a week trying to find someone with a set left over. I'd really like a pair by mid-March, but at LEAST find me a pair by May 8)
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tomtom
Jan 27, 2004, 7:24 PM
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I'll take a pair...
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rockprodigy
Jan 27, 2004, 7:56 PM
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In reply to: Jesus!!! Where were all you guys for the 2 years we made these and couldn't GIVE them away. Keep it up and we might just start making them again. Mal
I ordered some off your website...apparently right after you stopped making them, because you couldn't fill my order...that was about 3 years ago and I'm still looking for a source.
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crotch
Jan 27, 2004, 8:14 PM
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Malcolm,
If ya make them again, ya gotta get rid of the cheesy velcro strap that holds them in place around the leg and replace with something beefier that won't come undone every three seconds.
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brianinslc
Jan 27, 2004, 8:32 PM
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In reply to: If ya make them again, ya gotta get rid of the cheesy velcro strap that holds them in place around the leg and replace with something beefier that won't come undone every three seconds.
'Bout my only complaint...
Ok, sometimes, when I'm not payin' attention, the rings get stuck in the crack I'm aidin'...which can be a pain...
Yeah, beefier velcro, or some type of burlier strap that won't come undone as easy and won't let you kick the foot stirrup off.
Russian aiders rule...can't see goin' back to yos style aiders.
Brian in SLC
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spike
Jan 27, 2004, 8:46 PM
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Hi Malcolm,
I think I purchased the last pair of Russian Aiders from Trango.
A lot of new and old big wall climbers didn't use the Russian Aiders because they read OLD manuals/books on big wall climbing. I remember reading in the OLD books that the Russian Aiders were KINDA LOOOOOOOSE or NOT VERY STAAAAAABLE. I have been using them for 2 years and will never go back to the OLD system.
Russian Aiders are expensive . . . but worth every penny or should I say dollar . . . if the quality is improved. If Trango goes back into producing Russian Aiders, please make improvements in the following areas.
The metal buckles are crap. Especially the ones on the cuffs ... they have sharp ends that after a couple days of climbing start eating into your leg.
Why do the buckles eat into your leg, because the padding in crap ... to thin and not wide enough, plus the padding doesn't even wrap around completely. I ended up sewing on more padding. The velcro strap for the ankle is also crap ... I end up using duct tape ... to keep the straps in place . . . but have recently added webbing straps with plastic buckles.
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yosemite
Jan 27, 2004, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: the first monkey to put them on the market again.
Ed,
That'll get Malcolm and Russ going for sure. :lol:
gm
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flamer
Jan 27, 2004, 9:40 PM
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I NEED new aiders and have been waiting to buy the russian jobs! Somebody PLEASE make them before I bounce right thru my fourth step!!
josh
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kungfuclimber
Jan 27, 2004, 9:42 PM
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If you're really hard up for some russian luvin I hear you can make your own. Some crazy guy put up an article on how to do it on this very site:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/view.php?ID=201
It might not be your cup of tea but a little bird told me that this crazy dude has climbed a whole season and done some big walls in those doodads, and they're still going strong.
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mikeehartley
Jan 28, 2004, 3:22 AM
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Kung Fu,
How has the tubing you used to keep the loops open held up? I have a pair that I've just about finished making but I used cable thimbles instead of the tubing. They work great (so far) and I know they'll be durable but they are heavier than I'd like. I wasn't confident about the tubing holding up but the lighter weight would be appreciated. Let me know how yours have done.
And thanks for the article!!!
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kungfuclimber
Jan 28, 2004, 3:38 AM
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Its held up exceptionally well. That tubing is tough stuff. The only thing in the system that is wearing is the actual cordage of the trees. From using them on various placements, where there were edges, you can see where the things rubbed. In other words the same sort of thing you seen on any other aider system.
So yeah, that tubing is the same type of thing as those big 2 liter pop bottles: quasi indestructable.
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mikeehartley
Jan 28, 2004, 3:46 AM
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Kung Fu,
Thanks once again buddy!
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russwalling
Jan 28, 2004, 8:31 PM
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The RUSSIAN AIDERS are ready to ship!!!! Step right up and put your wallets where your mouths are..... They are $300 per set. (giant lies, on all counts)
Fatal flaw: we are unable to get the freakin hook part from Russia. Malcolm is and has been on the case too, and between us we got nuthin' going. I have tried other hooks and something might work, but in all fairness and the deal we have with Trango, I was to buy the supplies from their Russian contact. Sounds good to me... except that we have no hooks and little hope at this point of them showing up in the next week or two.
I still maintain there is about a dozen of you guys out there that want these, and that is fine with FISH, but without the parts or breaking our deal with Trango, production will continue to be stalled.
So..... there you have it. Any ideas? (I can hardly wait for all the 'break the deal" posts... whatever happened to loyalty and honor?)
adios,
Russ
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mikeehartley
Jan 28, 2004, 8:43 PM
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Russ,
Thanks for the up-date. I figured the rings would be the issue - not the hook. Seems like a standard "sky hook" would do the trick. What do the Russkies have that we don't?
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crotch
Jan 28, 2004, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: What do the Russkies have that we don't?
Gulags. Wait, was that a trick question? Oh yeah, we have them too. Guantanamo Bay, I think it's called.
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iamthewallress
Jan 28, 2004, 8:55 PM
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Would you be willing to sell the Aid Trees and hookless knee gadgets, and we could be on our own for rigging the hook?
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kungfuclimber
Jan 28, 2004, 8:59 PM
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oh oh.. make a BYOH deal (bring your own hook) if thats really the big issue.
It sounds like in order to use the design you must source your supplies from the previous suppliers. Is there no clause in that deal for the case where the supplier no longer exists?
In using my home-made ones I found that the hook, particularly the tip edge of it, gets worked over when working in corners. How well would the Ti hooks wear from that kind of abuse?
On a side note I've made mods to my "design" (I freely admit that I totally ripped the idea of trango and you). I 've incorporated kneepads into it. Now the calf strap doubles as the lower kneepad strap; you put the thing on in one go. I find this much more comfortable. Since I keep those on all day I'm very glad I made them solid and plush.
With all that said I'm still hoping Russ will put out these things. There's no substitute for quality gear from an accomplished craftsman.
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epic_ed
Jan 28, 2004, 9:21 PM
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Russ, seems you and Malcolm should be able to work out an reasonable agreement that would enable you to find another source. It also sounds like there are at least a couple of guys who have the homemade jobbies, and I'm betting Kung Fu or others have found an acceptible hook style and material. Why not ask them and just go with your best option. I mean, if that's truely the only thing holding up production, then F it -- use something.
Oh, and I will put my money where my yapper is. I'll pre-pay for two sets of these things. The first one of you guys to have a firm completion date for a production model gets the dollars.
Ed
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glockaroo
Jan 28, 2004, 9:22 PM
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Malcom & Russ: put me on the list for some Russkie aider-skis as well.
Remember, folks, the gods who put out the "How to Climb Big Walls" dissed the hell outta Russian aiders. Surely that had an impact on potential sales in the USA.
I can (kind of) remember the exact line: "Russian aiders are said to have some advantages... should you want to bother".
Sometimes the old luminaries don't know it all.
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mike_ok
Jan 28, 2004, 10:06 PM
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In reply to: Oh, and I will put my money where my yapper is. I'll pre-pay for two sets of these things. The first one of you guys to have a firm completion date for a production model gets the dollars. Ed
I'll pre-pay for ONE set, IF the completion date isn't forever away. I've been using a friends set of traditional Yosemite style aiders, but have to buy my own set sometime soon (soon is relative if these things are in the works). As you can probably guess, a dirtbag grad student like myself would like to keep from boing a traditional set and a Russian set...
As to upholding your contract... I'm all for doing all you can to keep your side of things, but if your supplier doesn't come through... what can you do, eh?
Old intro to philosophy question... if I promise to have lunch with you tomorrow and I die tonight, am I breaking my promise to have lunch with you?
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russwalling
Jan 29, 2004, 1:37 AM
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Epic_ed says: ##Oh, and I will put my money where my yapper is. I'll pre-pay for two sets of these things. The first one of you guys to have a firm completion date for a production model gets the dollars. ##
I'll check with my banker to see if my IRA can take such a bloated hit right now..... Malcolm? Can you wash that kind of dough right now?
The hook is a very critical piece to these things. We ain't selling them hookless and I'm not going to the home depot closet section and then sell you guys crap. So.... you can wait or get out the speedy stitcher. It isn't like we (Malcolm or myself) don't want to sell you guys stuff, but there is a bunch of things that need to happen before any product can get made. Just thinking about this item has already cost me a million dollars at my standard wage, and we are still in the proto stage. I sure hope I can make that back on the first year sales of 11 units......
As for just selling the "trees".... the problem with this is I have the rings for the trees, and if I sell them all there will be none left when the knee thingy gets made.... then what? Another two year delay? So, if you want trees, pony up the $$$ at REI and buy a bunch of belay rings and I'll tree them up for ya and try to keep it cheap for the sewing. Best I can do....
Struggle on.....
Russ
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epic_ed
Jan 29, 2004, 3:56 AM
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Well, hell, Russ -- it may just be two sets, but fer cryin out loud, I'm trying to demonstrate that it's more than just idle chatter among a small group. On one hand you say there are production problems, but then you also comment that you're not even sure the demand is going to be there to justify all the R&D. Well, I'm just trying to help demonstrate that this isn't something we're just curious about. Delays due to supply problems -- I get it. Delays because you don't think you're going to get a good return on your investment? I think this thread speaks otherwise.
Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but don't hem and haw about whether these things have a market and then get pissed because we're trying to show you that a lot of people want them.
Ed
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ricardol
Jan 29, 2004, 9:02 AM
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ahh crap -- presale russ! .. i'll throw my dough your way ..
.. i think i also need a double ledge .. heck i guess thats about $1000 on aid gear already! .. sheit! ..
-- ricardo
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mesomorf
Jan 29, 2004, 2:47 PM
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I'll pre-pay. What are we up to now, maybe 5 willing to pre-pay? Half the first year's sales!
Russ or Malcolm: Tell us again why off-the-shelf steel cliffhangers will not work?
If they HAVE to be titanium...have you asked Ushba about making them? Have you looked into fabricating them here? Or Mexico or China or wherever?
Forget Russia, man. People think Reagan did in the USSR...it was their own supply chain.
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rockprodigy
Jan 29, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Take your time, Russ. I'm willing to wait for good shwag.
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