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dshoffman
Apr 1, 2004, 2:50 AM
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Okay, as of right now this is a pipe dream, but I think it could work. I'm interested in learning more about opening a climbing gym in my town. If anyone out there knows anything about how to get started, any advice would be much appriciated. The nearest place to climb (inside or out) is an hour and ten minute drive. I live in a college town and there is currently no climbing wall.
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pianomahnn
Apr 1, 2004, 2:55 AM
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The first thing you need to find out is if there is a demand.
If not, can you create that demand?
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ontario_guide
Apr 1, 2004, 4:16 AM
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If you're serious, send me an e-mail. I've worked in 3 gyms now and I'd be more then happy to share some insights with you.
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the_antoon
Apr 1, 2004, 4:43 AM
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If you live in a college town....there IS a demand.
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dshoffman
Apr 1, 2004, 5:57 PM
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I don't think I'll have a problem finding out if there's a demand. There's definatly a demand for fitness centers, and I think that a lot of those people would give climbing a try. My hope is that they would then discover how cool it really is. I also think that because this is a college town, there will most definatly be demand. Thank you so much for replying...I need all the help, ideas, thoughts I can get :o)
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litleclimberchick
Apr 1, 2004, 10:17 PM
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i think the main thing you need is money...lots and lots of money
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b_fost
Apr 1, 2004, 10:35 PM
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you said the nearest spot to climb is an hour drive away...is this a desirable outdoor crag? if so, that puts a damper on your profit...an hour is NOT far for a midwest climber to drive. (my 'home' crag is the red river gorge, and its a good 2.5 or 2 hour drive depending on traffic)
also...maintaining a gym is hard work. your wellbeing depends on the safety and fun experienced by the climbers who climb there, who will often be little birthday party jerks.
good luck though!
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ramylson
Apr 1, 2004, 10:41 PM
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You really need to ask yourself what you want, as it will really effect the direction that you'll need to take. Meaning, gym size? Walls built in a "woodie" style, or sculpted walls? Etc. Regardless, it's going to cost you some serious dough, and I doubt that a bank will be willing to flow the majority of the costs, so you're looking at addtional interest/owners to put more money up front. Also, like what was previously said, you really need to figure out if there's going to be a demand. This isn't going to be something where you're going to be making a profit immediately.. instead, think of close to 10 years before any profit is made. You need to think of the expenses that will be needed to maintain this business: employees, equipment, entering the climbing gym association, up-keep, and more importantly.. insurance. I can speak about the insurance (as I'm in the field and currently insure a climbing gym).. expect to pay a lot. The premium is based on sales (which you would have much of at first), but they're going to audit you every year to figure out where the premium amounts should be set. Pay to much, you'll get money back at the end of the year.. pay to little, and you'll have an additional expense. There are a lot of variations on this, but I would say it's probably safe to estimate that you'll be paying in the area of $10,000/yr+ for insurance. The gym I currently insure, pays almost $30,000 in insurance alone..
I'm not trying to discourage you on this.. go for it. But, you need to be realistic in what you're facing..
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one900johnnyk
Apr 1, 2004, 10:42 PM
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where do you plan on getting your money?
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k2exp2010
Apr 1, 2004, 11:20 PM
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Since the gym is only an hour away, why don't you talk to the owner about special group discounts if you bring them more clientele? You can then offer an attractive shuttle service between the college and the gym.
Use the discounted amount plus whatever you think the newbies would pay for easy access plus gas and maintenance of the truck as your fee.
This way, all you need is money to get a decent truck to cary 5-10 people and their gear. You can even offer the rental gear. You've just created a virtual gym of your own. Let someone else operate it.
If you're creative enough, you may make enough money to open a center of your own.
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monstertruckmike
Apr 8, 2004, 8:22 PM
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I pm'd you Ontario Guide
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brianthew
Apr 8, 2004, 8:30 PM
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Well, it's Mankato, where I know there would exist a reasonable demand....college students, etc. And it's pretty isolated from the MN climbing scene. I know of at least one college student there that would love to have a nearby gym.
Are you at all affiliated with the university? Have you considered working somehow with thier rec department to build such a facility (even if it's just a tiny bouldering facility and a few topropes)?
BTW, which crag is the bit-over-and-hour drive? Not too familiar with driving times around Mankato.
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craig_climber
Apr 8, 2004, 8:33 PM
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I'd be careful with this. Although rare, accidents in the gym can occur. If you are the sole owner of the gym, you could get in big trouble. It's a huge liability.
However, I think owning a rock gym would be awesome. Go for it! :D
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j_ung
Apr 8, 2004, 8:42 PM
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Beware. Opening a gym and working in one full-time are the two worst things that you can do to your personal climbing. :(
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tombiowami
Apr 16, 2004, 8:49 PM
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Also consider what would happen to your business if the college does build it's own wall?
Tommy
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scottcody
Apr 16, 2004, 9:02 PM
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In reply to: i think the main thing you need is money...lots and lots of money
and me to manage it!!!! :)
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therave
May 2, 2004, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: This isn't going to be something where you're going to be making a profit immediately.. instead, think of close to 10 years before any profit is made.
Can you elaborate on why you think it takes close to 10 years to break even? If that were so sane investor would put a dime into a climbing gym. Yet they do. thx,
-Dave
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n00b
May 2, 2004, 7:46 PM
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look up solid rock wall systems. they sell just about everything you will need for a gym, including insurance plans. the walls are also very nice in texture and design.
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monkeyarm
May 2, 2004, 9:32 PM
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ALso lok in to how much insurance would cost you, since climbing is considered a high risk activity insurance is gonna caost a bundle.
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mik219
May 3, 2004, 9:42 PM
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insurance aint gonna cost squat as long as you get your climbers to sign forms saying you are not responsible for any accidents. thats what they do at my gym at least
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ramylson
May 3, 2004, 9:46 PM
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From my earlier post:
In reply to: I can speak about the insurance (as I'm in the field and currently insure a climbing gym).. expect to pay a lot. The premium is based on sales (which you would have much of at first), but they're going to audit you every year to figure out where the premium amounts should be set. Pay to much, you'll get money back at the end of the year.. pay to little, and you'll have an additional expense. There are a lot of variations on this, but I would say it's probably safe to estimate that you'll be paying in the area of $10,000/yr+ for insurance. The gym I currently insure, pays almost $30,000 in insurance alone..
For those that missed it the first time. Even if you sign a liability release waiver (which you'll have to do regardless). You're still looking at a sizeable liability premium amount (the highest potential of risk lies in here, obviously). The typical way to determine liability premiums will be ~7% (or more) of your paid receipts. Corrected by annual audits by the insurance company. What goes against you right now is that you don't have any loss runs to prove that you're a safe business. So, for three to five years you be high risk. Above and beyond what ISO will say that the business is, which is higher risk.
As far as the question I was referring before. I'm not saying that you won't turn a profit. But, when you tie in the items you have to pay for in order to stay in business, it'll be awhile before you're making any gain beyond what your normal operating costs will be.
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tenn_dawg
May 3, 2004, 9:55 PM
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In reply to: insurance aint gonna cost squat as long as you get your climbers to sign forms saying you are not responsible for any accidents. thats what they do at my gym at least
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Dude, open you eyes! You think that piece of paper counts for anything in a court of law if any kind of neglegence can even be kind of insinuated by the prosecutor?
Insurance will probably rival rent as your largest operating cost. Can any of the Gym owners around here confirm this? *EDIT, sorry this was very elloquently answered in the post above mine which I was too trigger happy to read*
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mik219
May 6, 2004, 11:23 AM
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really i didnt know that sorry for the mistake
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mheyman
May 6, 2004, 12:41 PM
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In reply to: you said the nearest spot to climb is an hour drive away...is this a desirable outdoor crag? if so, that puts a damper on your profit...an hour is NOT far for a midwest climber to drive. (my 'home' crag is the red river orge, and its a good 2.5 or 2 hour drive depending on traffic)
My thinking is exactly the opposite. Few working people can drive an hour a few days day a week (or even one) after work to climb, but the presence of a crag will guarantee you some climbers are in the area and you will have at least some "climber in the gym, and some of them will want to be members.
I have wanted to open a gym for years. I have two location selected, but there are no suitable preexisting buildings in the area. My estimate to build" a nice gym was app $1,000,000. There are "no" climbers in the area, but the area has other unique opportunities that lead me to believe that it would be successful if I found financing. I all I need is $350,000 so I can barrow the rest.
I would expect to “live in the gym” and work hard. I expect that a large portion of its income would come from parties. I don not expect that (in fact I am sure) that it would not hurt my climbing. I couldn’t climb any less than I do now – and being in a gym would give me some excuse to climb a little.
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fugsco
Aug 23, 2004, 2:35 PM
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I'm also thinking of opening a gym. I don't think $1,000 a month for insurance is really that big of a problem, considering other operating expenses. Rent and labor and advertising will be far more expensive.
I'm also not sure that maintenance will cost that much. Compared to other businesses I've considered (coffee, food), the initial opening cost of a rock gym is a bit higher, but after that reinvestment is minimal. For anyone but a professional, it sounds like a lot of money to have to replace three or four ropes in a given month. But a few hundred in upkeep is nothing when ads cost you $3000 every month your first year.
I also wouldn't worry about competition, either from real rocks close to the gym or from University or other non-dedicated facilities. My experience while I lived in California was that my local gym competed with two others within an hour drive AND a wall at the U only a few minutes away, not to mention the Sierra Nevadas two hours away. they were doing pretty well. A huge part of this business will be creative marketing: corporate team building, birthday parties, kid clubs. Soccer moms are your bread and butter. If you have a bad attitude about these types of things, get a good job and go climb in your free time. A multi-hundred thousand dollar investment is NOT the way to support a hobby. But I think it can be a fun and rewarding way to spend time, make money, and get to play around at the gym.
I'm interested in more details anyone may have about start-up costs, hard revenues and projections, especially in a mid-western (i.e. nontraditional climbing) culture.
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iconaddict
Aug 23, 2004, 9:15 PM
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I for one would be part of this so called "demand" as I happen to go to school in this town. I would also be willing to help you out with everything I can, but because I am a student that "help" doesnt include money but labor, yes. I know there are a few climbers in and around mankato that have dreamed of someone putting a gym in this town.
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theboss
Aug 23, 2004, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: insurance aint gonna cost squat as long as you get your climbers to sign forms saying you are not responsible for any accidents. thats what they do at my gym at least
G
(gym owner)
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dingus
Aug 23, 2004, 9:23 PM
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The only gym owner I know personally pretty much gave up climbing once he opened the gym. Had no choice you see, a mountain of debt and not enough business to hire help. He needed to be open on weekends to get the Scouts crowd. Oh, and he also worked a 9 to 5 job too, cause the gym only broke even after servicing debt.
We all went out climbing. He went down to open up the gym.
We climbed all day. He watched birthday parties for ten year olds cause he couldn't afford to turn away cash business.
We came home and bragged the next day about what we'd done. He tried vicariously to live through our adventures.
As far as I know, the situation is unchanged.
Being in business for yourself means BEING IN BUSINESS ON YOUR OWN. All the time. 24. 7.
Do you really want that?
DMT
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cin
Aug 23, 2004, 10:05 PM
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about competition...
I think that if the local University opens a wall it will only bring you business and increased interest. Lots of college kids have rich parents$$$$
It would definitely be a $hitload of work.
Prepare to ONLY climb indoors.
(At your wall )
The $$$$ is in the parties!
Let me repeat that...
THE $$$ IS IN THE PARTIES! ! !
If your OK with living like that so that you can bring rockclimbing to the masses single-handed than my hats off to you bro your brass cajones are bigger than ours!
And I salute you. And if I'm ever in Mankato (sp?) I'll climb at your wall!
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