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iamthewallress
May 11, 2004, 10:22 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: [ I think it should upset everyone when people say that the "only" reason Lynn Hill freed the Nose was because she had little fingers. It was hardly the only reason and to say so is silly. Well, I think you're overreacting again. Because her little fingers ARE the single primary reason she's been the only person to free the Nose. It's not a putdown as much as a basic statement of fact. The Great Roof and Changing Corners will shut down 90% of any male's dreams of freeing the Nose due to the need for very small fingers.
It's a fact because Beth heard someone else say it.
Small fingers wouldn't hurt, but I bet Scott Burke's ring size is quite a bit bigger than Lynn Hill's.
And the crux on the changing corners is probably wierd stemming and, um, changing from one corner to the other, not necessarily micro finger jams so far as I could see...I certainly wasn't trying to free it myself.
It is always a bummer to have someone make assumptions about you or your climbing in a way that feels like they are just trying to bring you down...which is often the case with the small finger statement.
Am I overreacting?
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moabbeth
May 12, 2004, 12:04 AM
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[quote="iamthewallress]
It's a fact because Beth heard someone else say it.
Small fingers wouldn't hurt, but I bet Scott Burke's ring size is quite a bit bigger than Lynn Hill's.
Am I overreacting?
Meow Melissa....thanks for reading my mind and thoughts and knowing everything about me. Pretty catty statement there girl.
Uh and yeah, just about every comment I've heard from climbers FAR better than me, and even YOU Melissa, all attribute that feat to her hands. Maybe I'm parroting, whatever....point is from the vast majority of what I've heard from other climbers - including some of Lynn's own peers - all agree her hands/finger size were key. It's not an insult, it's a physical fact.
Scott Burke didn't completely free the Nose as far as I know....do you know something the entire rest of the climbing world doesnt? I know he did go a little whack attempting to free it for all that time without success.
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iamthewallress
May 12, 2004, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: It's a fact because Beth heard someone else say it. Small fingers wouldn't hurt, but I bet Scott Burke's ring size is quite a bit bigger than Lynn Hill's. Am I overreacting? Meow Melissa....thanks for reading my mind and thoughts and knowing everything about me. Pretty catty statement there girl. Uh and yeah, just about every comment I've heard from climbers FAR better than me, and even YOU Melissa, all attribute that feat to her hands. Maybe I'm parroting, whatever....point is from the vast majority of what I've heard from other climbers - including some of Lynn's own peers - all agree her hands/finger size were key. It's not an insult, it's a physical fact. Scott Burke didn't completely free the Nose as far as I know....do you know something the entire rest of the climbing world doesnt? I know he did go a little whack attempting to free it for all that time without success.
I believe Scott TRed the Great Roof and led the Changing Corners. Point being his fingers didn't render it physically impossible to climb. I have stuck my fingers in that roof. It's thin, but it's not freakishly thin. It's would be wickedly sustained though. There are certainly thinner cracks in the Valley that the big studs can send. As for what the rest of the climbing world knows, you can read about the crux knee bar on the changing corners here. I guess it's not only small fingers that get the blame. Consider that there may be a bit of jealousy flowing through your world class friends. No doubt small fingers are an asset, but to reduce her accomplishment to that is lame. To tell Rebecca that she is overreacting because someone tried to reduce her accomplishment is lame too.
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moabbeth
May 12, 2004, 1:01 AM
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In reply to: [To tell Rebecca that she is overreacting because someone tried to reduce her accomplishment is lame too.
She admitted in this thread further down that she was overreacting. Or did you not read that?
If you're looking for guys to stroke your ego about your accomplishments, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If she was happy with what she did, then the lame opinions of some guy shouldn't really matter.
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changling
May 12, 2004, 1:04 AM
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In reply to: To tell Rebecca that she is overreacting because someone tried to reduce her accomplishment is lame too.
Did someone try to reduce her accomplishment? As far as we know, no. Would I be offended if someone told me that the reason I can do something they can't is because I'm taller? No. Do you think Rebecca is lame for agreeing with me when I felt she was overreacting? She explained her feeling better the second time around, and I have no problem with someone prefering to not have her success be based on just one thing.
I feel that many things lead to someone's climbing accomplishment, and I'm pretty sure everyone else feels that way too. I guess, with the Lynn Hill freeing The Nose thing, everybody knows she is an exceptional climber, but there was one thing about her that allowed her to do something no one else could, and that was her small fingers, so people highlight that. I don't think that is belittling her success one bit.
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iamthewallress
May 12, 2004, 1:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think it should upset everyone when people say that the "only" reason Lynn Hill freed the Nose was because she had little fingers. It was hardly the only reason and to say so is silly. Well, I think you're overreacting again
Again is the operative word. Yes, I read when she admitted that she had overreacted somewhat the first time. I didn't think that negated her bad feelings at having her ascent written off as being "only" about her small fingers.
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shorty
May 12, 2004, 1:08 AM
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Gee, I don't know about this whole Lynn Hill debate. She does have small hands, but just because she crushed mine in a handshake after the Nose slideshow, does that mean she's strong? Hey, I was able to grab a spoon after only 6 months of therapy.
Just because she can heel hook over her head, does that indicate she's flexible? I've seen that in a number of old super 8 movies (boom chikka boom).
And so she can climb 5.14. Shoot, half the people on this website seem to claim that's no big deal.
You know, it could have been a low gravity day -- the moon, Jupiter, Venus, Mars, and the Crab Nebula were all aligned straight overhead to pull her up the Nose. Rumor has it she was breathing helium from strategically stationed weather balloons to push her up even faster. It's a little know fact that the rope she used kept her from flying upwards if she slipped. Lucky thing, too. She would have really messed up air traffic patterns in California, floating around at 20,000' with a rack.
Or it could have been her big steel-blue eyes that brought El Cap down to size. Those amazing peepers, warm yet seductive, friendly yet piercing. The kind of eyes that make a man's ... er, I mean rock's ... throat go dry, knees go weak, heart race like a cheetah's, and speach regress to blabbering. Yeah, that's it. She winked at El Cap and the poor rock turned into putty in her hands. God, wouldn't that be great!
Which explains everything. El Cap is a guy rock, and a hetero one at that. When Scott Burke was giving a run at the Nose, old El Cap kept thinking, "Uh, excuse me, but you will not put your fingers there." Believe it....or not.
(Can we all lighten up a bit now, kids?)
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iamthewallress
May 12, 2004, 1:13 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for that!
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moabbeth
May 12, 2004, 1:53 AM
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In reply to: (Can we all lighten up a bit now, kids?)
Great point shorty.
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fireclimber
May 12, 2004, 1:09 PM
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I think Beth made some excellent points in her statement, as did shorty. I feel there are a lot of reasons for an individuals success. One cannot should never say they accomplished something because of one reason or another, no matter what it is!! I know about different physicqal limitations of climbers, I am 5-6 and 180, not exactly a climbers dream body. I can do things that some others cannot and I cannot do certain others things while climbing. BUT we all are different in that aspect. And we all love to climb, nuff said.
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rvega
May 14, 2004, 1:50 AM
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Beth,
I'm actually surprised by your insistance that Lynn Hill's success on the Nose is based on the FACT she has small fingers. Who generated that FACT? Should we all go on a FACT generating trip to Yosemite? Sounds good to me. :D
Regardless, I think you are missing the point. In reading some of Lynn Hill's own statements there are moves on the Nose that require great heighth as well, but she managed to do them anyways, despite her 5.1 stature. So height may have been advantage but she managed to use her other strengths to succeed where others had failed. Would you then say that the only reason someone else freed the Nose is because they were taller than every other person who failed? No!
I'm 5.1 and my hand is the same size as Lynn's but in absoluetly no way would I ever be able to climb like she can. She's got the whole package: strength, flexibility, training, small fingers, dedication, determination, iron will, and gobs of natural talent. It's the whole shebang. Not JUST her small fingers. The Nose will be freed again, certainly. Perhaps, it will be Beth Rodden but perhaps it will be Tommy instead. What then...will you say he can ONLY do it cause he's missing a finger?
There will always be an exuse. The Huber brothers ONLY freed so an so because their hair.....
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changling
May 14, 2004, 2:03 AM
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I think you are missing the point. Of course not anyone with small fingers would be able to free The Nose, but saying that she freed The Nose because she is a strong climber is stating the obvious. But there was something more to just being an overall excellent climber that led to that ascent, and that is what people are pointing out.
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crazygirl
May 14, 2004, 2:50 PM
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thats like saying that the only thing that sets her apart from other great climbers is her small fingers. she has also done reachy cruxes by compensating with her amazing technique and strengh. but thats stating the obvious. :roll:
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changling
May 14, 2004, 3:55 PM
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Well, aren't we talking about The Nose here? The reason she managed to do a climb that other great climbers were not able to do were due to her small fingers. So yes, that does set her appart from other great climbers. Why do people find that so offensive?
Am sure there are routes out there that have been done by others, but that she is unable to do. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Big deal!
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crazygirl
May 14, 2004, 7:26 PM
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In a context of the original post,
I personally wouldn't be offended is someone said about me, she climbed it because she has small fingers. If they said, she climbed it only because she has small fingers, it changes the tone. The word only makes it offensive.
As far as Lynn Hill, there are other women in the world now who climb stronger than her, so in theory they should be able to climb the nose. but they haven't attempted. the determination is important, too.
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slockwoo_knits
Mar 15, 2006, 1:03 AM
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I would have given them the finger.
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lhwang
Mar 15, 2006, 3:39 PM
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Yeah, but has anyone seen Tommy Caldwell's fingers? He specifically denied the "small fingers" reason in one of the interviews I read.
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cracklover
Mar 15, 2006, 6:29 PM
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Lazarus or Zombie? I can't decide.
GO
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