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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 21, 2002, 10:08 PM
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Or anyone that does not subscribe
to organized religion.
Just curious how many of my brothers
and sisters are on here?
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pianomahnn
Apr 21, 2002, 10:35 PM
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Keepin it real, I suppose.
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scradje
Apr 22, 2002, 12:24 AM
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Up there with you dude!
Scrad
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climbchick
Apr 22, 2002, 1:35 AM
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Right here
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bcmtngrrrl
Apr 22, 2002, 2:16 AM
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In front of my house reads a sign, "Resident Parking Only, Patrolled by Satan, All cars will be towed to hell."
("churchies across the street suck up all our parking!) I tried leaving signs on their cars, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's parking space.", but nothing seems to discourage them!
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fiend
Apr 22, 2002, 4:58 AM
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Trust in Gaia and she shall provide.
Hardcore Athiest.
___________________
the Friendly Nomad, for those who find themselves wandering.
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2002-04-21 21:59 ]
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rockwomyn
Apr 22, 2002, 8:35 PM
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I am a deviant, too!
Cheers to the pagans!
Blessed Be!
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metoliusmunchkin
Apr 22, 2002, 8:39 PM
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At the highschool I'm going to next year, there is a man named Mr. Pagan!
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nikegirl
Apr 22, 2002, 9:16 PM
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no organized religion here...
T
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jules
Apr 22, 2002, 9:43 PM
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<-- atheist.
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pianomahnn
Apr 22, 2002, 9:53 PM
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YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BURN!!
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jules
Apr 22, 2002, 10:04 PM
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As far as I can figure, if I don't believe an afterlife exists, I don't have to worry about being punished in one...
Worst case scenario, I'm wrong, and I'm sentenced to eternal suffering for standing up for what I believe in... (yeah, sure sounds like a great, loving god to me. Great role model, too :p).
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kriso9tails
Apr 23, 2002, 12:28 AM
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Ongoing geometric increase of which population? If you mean human population then that would work in favour of reincarnation. In Hinduism and Buddhism you are reincarnated in various forms depending on your karma. The better your karma (or is it darma?) the higher up your reincarnated form should be until you achieve moksha (or something like that). Humans are supposedly high on the scale, and all life is supposedy in the path of returning to Nirvana, therefor the human population should be increasing. Well, that's kind of innaccurate, but it still makes some sense.
As for time... I don't believe in it. Time is merely the perception of change. I guess I do believe that they exist in two respects though, the first being that the past exists in line with the present as the present is a product of it, and the future exists in line with the present as it is a product of the present. The other being that any given moment can be defined by the exact arrangement of matter and energy, and that that arrangement is essentially a place that one could with great difficulty, go provided that time was reversed in a localized space and not universally (or that person would also go back into their past position and a never ending loop would be created).
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kriso9tails
Apr 23, 2002, 1:22 AM
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Oh yeah, as for what I believe in terms of religion, I have great respect for our little Giai sphere. I tend to think of the living Earth as an animal, humanity is an organ (infected with cancer ) and being human I am a cell in that organ. I believe that the ultimate exisitence would be the omnipresent one, which is the entire universe as one entity. Some would think that that should make me feel insignificant, but really it makes me feel grandiose; a divine part of one unified existence... almost immortal (especially since I am in turn like a planet to my cells as they are in trun to their sub-cellular components and so on). It's cyclic and eternal, even if my own part seems brief, it's almost as if so long as the universe exists, so do I.
I'm not sure how clear that is, but a real description would be thousands upon thousands of pages long, and it's not that interesting (unless of course you're me, which just happens to be who I am ).
[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2002-04-22 18:26 ]
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bkpkrn
Apr 23, 2002, 2:11 AM
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Got another pagan here.
Hey, bcmtngrrrl where can I get a sign like that? That kicks some serious a**.
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fiend
Apr 23, 2002, 5:03 AM
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Going back to reincarnation...
I prefer to look at it like this:
Our conciousness as I understand it, is merely a series of neurons and synapses firing. Basically, the spark of our life is a form of electric impulses. When we die, these impulses are scattered back into the pool of life to be picked up again by new animal and plant life.
Two main things could account for the growth of the human population.
-the general expansion of the universe
-as the human population increases, the animal and plant population decreases.
Think about things like ESP, in theory if we can use the electical impulses in our brain to process our thoughts then could we not read the impulses of someone near us? It's been shown that we use only a fraction of our brains, what would the possiblities be if we could access the rest?
Sorry, I have to stop typing these things at 1am. I know my scientific terms were way off but it's the general concept that I'm after here.
A lot of these things can be evidenced in the cases of autistic or otherwise disabled 'geniuses'. As a blind man has a heightened sense of smell, a man who is denied access to one portion of his brain is able to tap into other portions the rest of us haven't been able to access.
Blah, me shut up now.
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 23, 2002, 5:52 AM
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Yes! Yes!, Arise my minions!!!
Bwaa haa haa haaaa!!!
Go hence thee forth! And wreak...
oops(tee hee)
You guys and gals Rock!
now...where was I?...
Oh yes...
Bwaa haa haa haaaaa!!!
Arise my multitude of...
[ This Message was edited by: ravens_wing_jim on 2002-04-22 22:53 ]
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wallhammer
Apr 23, 2002, 1:54 PM
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just dont go and blow it by celebrating christmas. if there is anything i cannot stand, its a wannabe pagan
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missedyno
Apr 23, 2002, 2:28 PM
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pffft, christmas is about as pagan as you can get!
i have no need for religion. organized religion or whatever. i know my thoughts and opinions on life, and there is no religion that matches that exactly. besides, i'm happy out here on my own rather than going to church meetings and being told to feel guilty for something or the other.
nope, no religion for me, thanks.
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 23, 2002, 6:03 PM
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The real name for christmas
is Yule.
And it is very pagan indeed.
In wicca, Yule is the celebration of
the rebirth of the god.(not to be confused
with the christian god), but the horned God.
Ruler of the mountains, forests, and all
the horned animals.(he is also represented
as the sun).
This is a very ancient pagan celebration
that was going on long before christianity.
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missedyno
Apr 23, 2002, 7:48 PM
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i'm just going to hide in here from the "climbing scripture" thread i read by accident...
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climbchick
Apr 23, 2002, 8:09 PM
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lol, Fawkes -- if you thought that was bad, take a look at the Faith For The Fall thread -- I had heartburn for 3 days after my unfortunate decision to see what it was all about.
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missedyno
Apr 23, 2002, 8:26 PM
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lol... well then climbchick, on your advice, i'll steer clear of that one.
i was hoping it was a joke, now i'm scarred for life.... i accidentally checked out a link to some site like "climbers for jesus" or something like that....
i've blocked it out...
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rockwomyn
Apr 23, 2002, 8:27 PM
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over the past couple days i've felt like it's the annual crusade for christ reunion around here.
i'm scared!!!!!
help jesus, save us from your followers!!!
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bigbouda
Apr 23, 2002, 8:32 PM
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well, as good old Socrates said : "All I know is that I know nothing". Interpret as you want,lol
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mtngypsy
Apr 23, 2002, 8:41 PM
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I'm no christian by anyone's definition, I grew up in catholic schools and got feed the full sandwich of biblical contradictions, the taste grew unpleasant.
My question is what the heck is with all the evanglical types, you know the one's that want to covert everybody, suddenly taking up climbing. They have climbing walls at all their camps now, I've seen people doing little prayer sessions at the base of crags, even the threads on this site, WOW!
Climbing to me was always been the realm of the subverted few that had little use for most of our normal social constructs. So what the "hell" draws these religious types that are snap shots of social normality to climbing.
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rockwomyn
Apr 23, 2002, 8:52 PM
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Didn't you know that it's a new undercover operation....didn't you know climbers are heathens that must and will be converted. Be on the look out at any and all crags you go to. They are lurking, just waiting to kidnap and reprogram you as a soldier for christ. TRUST NO ONE!!!
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hardcoredana
Apr 23, 2002, 8:56 PM
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I'm a heathen!!!!
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missedyno
Apr 23, 2002, 10:18 PM
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so am i...
imagine the day when we have people trying to convert us by offering us literature on their faith while leading the climb next to us?
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kriso9tails
Apr 23, 2002, 11:19 PM
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That's not how it works... just think, if they converted old holidays to sell the people, then they'll convert the actual act of climbing into a Christian ritual. Tie the sacred rope into the blessed harness and try not to take the lord's name in vain too much on God's holy 5.14c.
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bkpkrn
Apr 24, 2002, 7:56 AM
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Its the new plan the Vatican came up with. Send a bunch of undercover Jesuits to convert more people for molestation.
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rockwomyn
Apr 24, 2002, 1:48 PM
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honestly though.....there are some evangilistic groups that have been training missionaries to go under cover in palestine and afghanistan to help convert muslims to christianity. It is believed by these people that the second coming of christ will not occur until all muslims are converted. Sheesh!!!! do they leave anyone alone, those christians.
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mountainrat
Apr 24, 2002, 2:36 PM
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Afterlife? After what?!?! It never ends, the cycle, so there is no afterlife- it keeps on happening. In an infinite system, all possibilities must happen eventually. Therefore, atoms trapped in beings able to contemplate their own consciousness will end up in like creatures again after the whole decomposition dance, man. The closest I come to "religion" is a mix of Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism and Wicca.
p.s.- Rocwomyn, your killing me, girl! Hahaha. You rock. And climbchic- "heartburn for three days..." HAHAHAHA! Thanks for the belly laugh, my Tennessee sister! HAhaha. Live long and prosper, all.
[ This Message was edited by: mountainrat on 2002-04-24 07:41 ]
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mountainrat
Apr 24, 2002, 2:43 PM
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Consider that atoms are mostly empty space, man, then check the Buddhist principle of "emptiness," then slide your hand straight into the rock- ya gotta believe, man. Makes a friggin' BOMBER jam.
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missedyno
Apr 24, 2002, 3:38 PM
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whoa man, that was way deep!
and the only baptism i'll go for is the skinnydipping into the lake (keep your beer above water) to get the climbing sweat off!
climb on
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jules
Apr 24, 2002, 7:53 PM
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Thought I'd stick this in one of the religion-oriented threads...
Quote:
From "The Sirens of Titan" by Kurt Vonnegut...
Once upon a time on Tralfamadore there were creatures who weren't anything like machines. They weren't dependable. They weren't efficient. They weren't predictable. They weren't durable. And these poor creatures were obsessed by the idea that everything that existed had to have a purpose, and that some purposes were higher than others.
These creatures spent most of their time trying to find out what their purpose was. And every time they found out what seemed to be a purpose of themselves, the purpose seemed so low that the creatures were filled with disgust and shame.
And, rather than serve such a low purpose, the creatures would make a machine to serve it. This left the creatures free to serve higher purposes. But whenever they found a higher purposes, the purpose still wasn't high enough. So machines were made to serve higher purposes, too.
And machines did everything so expertly that they were finally given the job of finding out what the highest purpose of these creatures could be.
The machines reported in all honesty that the creatures couldn't really be said to have any purpose at all.
The creatures thereupon began slaying each other, because they hated purposeless things above all else.
And they discovered that they weren't even very good at slaying. So they turned that job over to the machines, too. And the machines finished up the job in less time than it takes to say "Tralfamadore."
...
[ This Message was edited by: juliana on 2002-04-24 13:14 ]
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climbchick
Apr 24, 2002, 8:09 PM
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hahahaha, that pretty much seems to sum up my perspective. Vonnegut rocks!!!!
It's all just a big coincidence . . .
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hardcoredana
Apr 24, 2002, 9:05 PM
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w00t
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dynamic
Apr 24, 2002, 9:21 PM
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Please don't kill me for posting in here:)
I'm wondering what, exactly, happens in your mind when someone mentions or defends (or preaches about) "God". Pure curiosity. What are some of the biggest reasons to hate this particular faith? I won't defend myself here (unless you tell me to)... tear me apart. There is clearly hostility in the air coming from some of you. Lets have it out so I (and perhaps other religious types) can think about it.
Thanks,
d
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 14:22 ]
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 14:23 ]
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climbchick
Apr 24, 2002, 9:45 PM
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Well, since you asked . . .
When somebody mentions God to me, I get a little uncomfortable, A) because I think it's kinda weird and B) because I'm worried that I'll accidentally offend them. So I just try to change the subject usually. Can't say I "hate" Christianity, but my frank opinion (since you asked) is that it seems to be full of more hypocrites than any other religious group I've encountered. I'm pretty laid-back for the most part, though, so I really don't care what other people believe in, (AS LONG AS they're not trying to convert me). Don't have any respect whatsoever for hypocrites (church on Sunday, get drunk & beat the wife on Monday). If someone truly believes that stuff and "practices what they preach", I have no problems with it. But most of the Christians I've ever met routinely break the Ten Commandments.
My only other objection is that the Christians always appear to forcing their views on the rest of us. One thing that really irks me is that fact that in many states it's illegal to buy alcohol on Sundays. And/or the bars are closed. What's that all about??
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dynamic
Apr 24, 2002, 10:15 PM
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I'm don't have much knowledge of state laws. I'm guessing, though, that if states don't allow such sales on sunday that it is out of traditional ethical views that the day is "set apart" as a day of reflection and rest, religious pursuit, etc.
Good point about hypocracy. (may I venture a comment about that?)
edit- *hypocrisy*
[ This Message was edited by: dynamic on 2002-04-24 15:16 ]
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jules
Apr 24, 2002, 10:23 PM
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I'm sure one of the religious people out there is going to shoot me for this, but it's the easiest way to put it in perspective...
My younger sister still believes in Santa Clause. At Christmas-time, I'll just play along with all the talk of Santa and Rudolph and the like, though I personally don't believe. In my mind, he doesn't exist; but if she wants to believe, why try to make her think otherwise? I nod and smile and go with it for her sake.
I feel the same way when someone speaks to me about God; I'm not inclined to say "I don't believe in God," or anything like that- it's not like it upsets me. It's just someone else viewing something in a way separate from how I do.
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kriso9tails
Apr 25, 2002, 3:00 AM
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It's got nothing to do with Christianity really; it's just the stupidity of some few people that speads dogmatically through many faiths. You know, that one bad apple and what not. I agree with a theory (there are many) on evolution. There are many evolutionists that piss me right off because they're so self-righteous, yet they don't seem to have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about. I know a very petty Taoist... how does that work? I know several very flakey wiccans who hardly seem to believe anything, except for that they must at any cost be more spiritual and at one with nature thatn any one else, which makes no sense whatsoever when you think about it. How can being one with nature be an elitist pursuit. I hate wannabes. True that at least 70% of humans are probably just sheep... but even sheep have open belifs. Wannabes have beliefs, but they're always falsely representing others. Christianity is a popular faith, so there just happens to be more of these wannabes wandering about. Please understand, I am very reluctant to treat even suspected posers differently, because it's hard to tell if somebody truly believes, and it's not my place to tell them what they believe, but some people still disgust me. The tell tale signs are usually a big mouth backed by a fist full of ignorance and misguided passion/ desire/ greed.
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inflight
Apr 25, 2002, 2:46 PM
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Make love and acsents not Holy War. Agnostic.
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bcmtngrrrl
Apr 25, 2002, 9:12 PM
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I'm gonna have to side with climbchick, objective word being hypocrite. Organized religion is a crutch. No one is gonna save you but yourself. I have one simple rule to live by, be a good person. You don't need a church to do it. It's all about karma, my life is as good as it gets, and the only person I have to thank for that is myself. Do you think god is gonna save all those priests who molest little boys and ruin their lives? Repent on your deathbed ....repent! Repent! Bullshit!
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bkpkrn
Apr 26, 2002, 5:50 AM
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In response to dyanmic's Q.
I agree with climberchick about the hypocracy. I have no problem with people who practice what they preach, but it seems rarely the case with christianity. I'm a very open minded person and have gone to church with freinds who have asked me to give it a try. I will listen respectfully and debate with people I feel close to. However, many people I don't know very well have tried to discuss religion with me and shown themselves to be total hypocrates. Now whenever someone I don't know well brings up the subject, I automatically think, "sh*t, not this again."
If you want to discuss my personal veiws, go ahead and private message me.
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 26, 2002, 6:09 AM
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If space is infinite, and I think its
pretty safe to say it is.
And please dont give me any of that "space
is actually curved", "you see, the universe
is still expanding blah..blah..blah."
Because that type of thinking, is not
thinking beyond the wall.
What I mean is, space is infinite, forever.
If the universe is growing, what is it
growing inside of?
If there is a wall that says DEAD END, whats
on the other side of the wall?
And that brings me back to this,
If space is infinite then,(hold on to your
seats kidds)anything you can imagine, actually exists out there somewhere.
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cook
Apr 26, 2002, 3:30 PM
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The truth of the matter is, I don't concern myself with religion unless someone confronts me or tries to convert me. I just don't really care and a "God" does not factor into my daily decision making. However, I do subscribe to evolution and have been posting in the religious websites....mainly because I think the debate is fun.
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mountainrat
Apr 30, 2002, 8:37 PM
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Exactly, Ravens_wing. Exactly. If something is imagined, then it does have an existence- we all know what dragons are, though none exist in physical reality as far as we can tell. Maybe everything we experience is only these second hand thoughts- blips in something's imagination. The question then becomes, "If a thing exists in an imagination, with a consciousness, does it actually HAVE a consciousness?" If so, then dragons with minds of their own are flying about inside my skull...
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spike_in_milton
Apr 30, 2002, 10:30 PM
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I'm a heathen and a spiritual pagan... gave up on organized wicca years ago after being heavily involved. You can't get three of those people together in one place without politics starting to fly everywhere .
Still wear the pentacle though, and have for over twenty years.
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kriso9tails
May 1, 2002, 4:19 PM
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The only place infinity exisists is in a circle. No beginning, no end, an infinitelt continueing path. Numbers are not infinite. The lowest number concept is zero. There is nothing less than zero as negative integers are merely a means to work mathematically with an innaccurate scale. A number can only exist so long as it represents something, so if there is a smallest thing and a largest, the there is a smallest number and a largest number in their relation to eachother. Is there a smallest thing? If there wasn't then motion and transition would be impossible. Zeno's paradoxes deal with this. Is there a largest thing? I believe so, but it's difficult to explain. Basically the Earth is 3D. We being 2D (practically) hace difficulty percieving the three dimensions, and as of yet have really had difficulty escaping into the third dimension. If you were to walk on endlessly on the surface of the Earth, you could theoretically walk on infinitely in a finite space. Perhaps it is the same with the universe. Perhaps there is a fourth dimension that binds us... or maybe it is still the third. There doesn't have to be an outside; that's just the limitation of human thought (in my opinion).
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jt512
May 1, 2002, 5:39 PM
Post #52 of 65
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kris, how many numbers are there between 0 and 1?
-Jay
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ravens_wing_jim
May 1, 2002, 5:50 PM
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kriso9tails, my nickname for you
shall be dexter
Pretty cool thinking brutha, you rock!
And mountainrat, woe dude!
Dragons on the brain, thats gotta hurt.
Give that man a cigar!
Your thinking beyond the wall for sure!
And your right.
Ok guys, check this out...
On my birthday this year, the planets
were in the exact same position that
they were on my birth.(full moon and all)
And I was told that because this is happening, my life would take a major turn.
And to say the least, you should hear
what I have been through so far this year!
I had a freind do my spirit card spread,
I dont know if you know the cards I'm
talking about, but the first one that
poped up was the spirit quest card,
that told me that at this point in my
life, I must embark on a spirit walk to
seek truth.
What do ya think?
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mountainrat
May 2, 2002, 10:36 AM
Post #54 of 65
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Posts: 416
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Go on a Vision Quest, R.W.J.
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overlord
May 2, 2002, 11:58 AM
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I dont believe in god or whatever you choose to call it. I am a part satannist, but i dont believe in satan either, because that would make me christian. However, i respect all people and their religions as long as they dont bother me.
But thing about it: God needs a religion if to exist. Religion is based on belief. You have to believe that He is there. So, if God was real, noone would have to believe in him, because they would KNOW that he is there. So nobody would believe, there would be no religion and no religion means no God.
At least thats how i think.
As i said, im an atheist. The clossest religions to me are the modern branch of sattanizm (the one that does not allow any sacrifizes and states that god and satan as such do not exist), buddism (i am tryin joga to control my breathing and fro flexibility), Wicca and ancient celtic and nordic religions. I really like druids.
I hope i havent offendet anyone, because it was not my intention. Ecrybody has the right to believe or not to believe in anythig that he chooses. I believe in chalk, rubber and ropes .
CLIMB ON
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ravens_wing_jim
May 2, 2002, 5:09 PM
Post #56 of 65
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Well mountainrat,
I do have some mini-vision quests
planned for this summer.
I have been seeking the truth for
many years, and over the last few years,
realized that I must seek my own personal
truth.
I have spent much time in nature,
and while deep in the forest,
have tapped in to my own inner nature.
But, I most surely feel that I have
reached what could be the crossroads
of my life, and theres a powerfull
wind blowing where I stand.
All I do know is this...
I will find my personal truth this year.
And I know that this summer is going
to be the best summer of my life(so far...)
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kriso9tails
May 2, 2002, 10:36 PM
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to Jay: "kris, how many numbers are there between 0 and 1?"
between 0 and 1 there are a finite number of numbers, (i just don't know what that finite number is). A number only exist if it represents something. If there is a smallest thing and a largest thing, then there is a smallest and largest number respectively inthe the relation of these two things. If there is a smallest number than there is a finite number of times that that number can fit between 0 and 1. Yes numbers like one 1/3 don't adhere to this, but they do not represent anything so they lack validity. You may disagree with the premises (smallest thing largest thing), in fact I almost do myself, but the logic is sound.
Here's a question: what is the number set of all number sets?
I think I'm going to take up scientology, the purest of the faiths anybody have an e-meter?
Satanism has some good points but I don't know all that much about it. That Anton LeVey (sp?) made some points that are really hard to defend though. And the futuristic robots garbage was too much, but I think that's more Anton than it is Satanism. I could also be think of something else, but I'm 99% sure it's him.
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Fallon
Dec 13, 2008, 10:07 PM
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I am following the druid path myself, though i tend to blend them, because after all the bible is just a collection of stories in and of itself. Though i dont care for a god that loves children, and then destroys them in the story of sodom and gemorrah
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camhead
Dec 14, 2008, 3:43 AM
Post #59 of 65
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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holy thread revival!
it was kind of interesting to read all those comments from over six years ago. quaint. like a bunch of innocent children that had not yet been jaded by rc.com, and were honestly talking about what they believed rather than insulting each other. back to the golden age.
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jt512
Dec 14, 2008, 4:15 AM
Post #60 of 65
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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camhead wrote: holy thread revival! it was kind of interesting to read all those comments from over six years ago. quaint. like a bunch of innocent children that had not yet been jaded by rc.com, and were honestly talking about what they believed rather than insulting each other. back to the golden age.
We can fix that easily enough.
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carabiner96
Dec 14, 2008, 4:31 AM
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Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610
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fiend is a hottie! bring him back!
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timd
Dec 14, 2008, 6:48 AM
Post #62 of 65
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Registered: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 862
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Blessed Be fellow Pagans.
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limeydave
Dec 15, 2008, 3:15 PM
Post #63 of 65
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Registered: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 2453
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DOn't Pagans spread disease? They're like those flying rats right?
Coo, coo
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sungam
Dec 15, 2008, 7:38 PM
Post #64 of 65
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
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carabiner96 wrote: fiend is a hottie! bring him back!
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camhead
Dec 15, 2008, 8:30 PM
Post #65 of 65
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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sungam wrote: carabiner96 wrote: fiend is a hottie! bring him back! ]UKC.
talk to kriso9tails. that's his brother.
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