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munckee
Jun 13, 2004, 8:11 PM
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More a curiousity than an "I don't know how" type of thing, but what type of slings do you carry? How many? How do you "rack" them? Do you carry quickdraws as well?
I have about a dozen. Usually carry over the shoulder, sometimes with a biner on each one, sometimes not. Usually carry a draw or two as well. Then a few spare biners on a gear loop for stopper placements and others that don't get racked on their own biner.
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ryanpfleger
Jun 13, 2004, 8:17 PM
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I used to carry tied slings over the shoulder, now I mainly carry sewn slings in "trad draws" racked on my harness. If it is a multipitch route, I will still carry two or three tied slings over the shoulder. I just saw some super tiny slings at REI the other day, maybe 2/3 the width of normal spectra slings, when my current crop of slings wears out I may switch to those.
Ryan
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ikellen
Jun 13, 2004, 9:12 PM
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With my 24" slings, I rack them as a trad draw by clipping two biners to them. I girth hitch one biner through the other, then with the biner that went through, I clip that to the loop that has formed from the girth hitch. Pull it tight and you have essentially a 7" draw that you can extend to 24" by just unclipping two loops from either biner. Sorry if I sound confusing :lol:
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vegastradguy
Jun 13, 2004, 11:25 PM
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never heard the alpine draw described as a girth hitch! :)
anyway, i usually carry 6 alpine (trad) draws (24") on my harness and an additional 6 over the shoulder. recently, i went with all alpine for a climb and ended up preferring it, so i may start climbing with all alpine.
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munckee
Jun 13, 2004, 11:26 PM
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Anyone have a visual demonstration of the alpine draw? I used to know it, but can't remember it off hand.
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ahddrew
Jun 13, 2004, 11:51 PM
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I was curious as to how the alpine draw worked too. With a quick search, this is what I found.
In reply to: I believe the idea is similar to an alpine draw, as illustrated in Moutaineering, The Freedom of the Hills. Grab a single length sling, clip two biners on it, hold one biner in your hand with the other hanging at the other end of the sling. Now grab the other biner and pass it through the the first, then clip that biner to the loop you created, and presto, trippled for racking. To un-tripple, unclip one biner from all but one strand, and pull. It works quite well if you wish to rack your slings with biners instead of looping them over your shoulder.
Taken from this post
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ighlight=alpine+draw
Oh ya, works like a charm! Yet another good idea from RC.com.
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gottarock
Jun 14, 2004, 12:01 AM
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can't give you a visual but...
if you clip a caribiner to a 24" sling, hold the sling just below the caribiner with thumb and forfinger. add another caribiner to opposite (hanging) end. feed the 2nd caribiner thru the biner in your hand until its even with the loop you just created (basically the sling is folded in thirds). reclip the 2nd biner into the second/new loop and you'll have a alpine/trad draw.
hope this makes sense.
I climb trad routes w/10-12 alpine draws built with 1 straight gate and 1 wire gate. one of these days I'll replace the straight gates with wire gates to lighten it up a bit.
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euroford
Jun 14, 2004, 1:29 AM
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currently i climb with 6 regular draws and 4 trad draws of 24" nylon all racked on my harness. i've spent a ton of money on cams lately, but very soon i plan to purchase a dozen of the mammut 24" slings and matching bd nutrino's.
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geezergecko
Jun 14, 2004, 2:39 AM
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A diagram of the extendable quickdraw a.k.a. trad draw a.k.a. alpine draw is shown on page 127 of the Petzl 2003 catalogue. There is a whole section of technical tips in the Petzl catalogue that is well worth the read.
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crackboy
Jun 14, 2004, 4:45 AM
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i usually carry two 48" slings in addition to my plethora of over the shoulders, i would rather carry the exta slings up and not use them than run out when i want them
but i carry my double lengths twist rack, bascially what i do is:
fold it in half
fold it in half again
take both ends and keep twisting until it is to your desired length
clip biner to both loops.
it works out so that you only have to unclip one end and the whole thing comes undone.
or if i know i will be using the, i will fold it in half and clip both end of sling and wear it over the shoulder making it the same length as 24" and that way you can just unclip the biner and pull it off without having to go over your head.
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az_biner
Jun 14, 2004, 4:58 AM
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on the trad/alpine draws, it is possible to totally unclip from the runner. i use petzel strings on my rope end binner, and i always unclip from this binner, thus knowing that i won't accidently totally unclip..which would be frustrating, especially is you are already pumped and needing a quick clip. rubber bands would serve the same purpose.
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euroford
Jun 14, 2004, 4:25 PM
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yeah, sometimes it is a bitch messing with a trad draw while your pumped. to partially solve this i rack all of my cams on individual biners and frequently will plug one in and clip it to get myself secure and mentally stable, then add the trad draw, clip it and unclip the cam biner to solve my rope drag issues.
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asandh
Jun 14, 2004, 4:38 PM
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:)
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tedc
Jun 14, 2004, 4:45 PM
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In reply to: For all you Trad Draw fans, Be Careful I have a friend who BROKE a trad draw biner on 2 separate occassions when he took a leader fall. Here's what happened -- because of the way he carried his draws wrapped on the 2 biners, whenever he needed full extension to the 2 foot length, there would be a single wrap around one of the biners when he extended the sling. 2 times in a fall, this wrap sinched itself on the biner in a cross loaded manner and the force of the fall broke the biner. When extending these "Trad Draws" make sure there is no "wrap" on either biner.
Good warning.
To your friend: A man who gets bit by the same dog twice, deserves it.
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tedc
Jun 14, 2004, 4:45 PM
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Deleted Duplicate Post
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overzealous
Jun 14, 2004, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: For all you Trad Draw fans, Be Careful I have a friend who BROKE a trad draw biner on 2 separate occassions when he took a leader fall. Here's what happened -- because of the way he carried his draws wrapped on the 2 biners, whenever he needed full extension to the 2 foot length, there would be a single wrap around one of the biners when he extended the sling. 2 times in a fall, this wrap sinched itself on the biner in a cross loaded manner and the force of the fall broke the biner. When extending these "Trad Draws" make sure there is no "wrap" on either biner.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that the sling was inadvertently girth hitched around on of the biners?
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overzealous
Jun 14, 2004, 4:48 PM
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In reply to: For all you Trad Draw fans, Be Careful I have a friend who BROKE a trad draw biner on 2 separate occassions when he took a leader fall. Here's what happened -- because of the way he carried his draws wrapped on the 2 biners, whenever he needed full extension to the 2 foot length, there would be a single wrap around one of the biners when he extended the sling. 2 times in a fall, this wrap sinched itself on the biner in a cross loaded manner and the force of the fall broke the biner. When extending these "Trad Draws" make sure there is no "wrap" on either biner.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that the sling was inadvertently girth hitched around on of the biners?
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asandh
Jun 14, 2004, 4:58 PM
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:)
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euroford
Jun 14, 2004, 5:12 PM
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well, thats not a trad draw, and not an appropriote thing to do when slinging a biner. i have pletny of cams with doubled loops, but again, these are cams not biners.
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crackboy
Jun 14, 2004, 6:25 PM
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that biner likely didnt break due to the sling being wrapped around the biner, it broke since it got crossloaded
by your logic you shouldn't fall on pieces you have equalized with clove hitches
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alpnclmbr1
Jun 14, 2004, 6:41 PM
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Using the "biner wrap" technique is great for getting a 12" sling out of a 24" sling.
Carrying "trad draws" in this manner is bad because of the wrap you end up with when you extend them.
Better to trick triple them and not worry about it. They carry better this way also.(shorter)
btw: if you carry all your shoulder slings as draws, then you are carrying to many extra biners. It also takes an extra step to clean the extra biner unless you leave it like I usually do. that is not so great either as the extra biner tends to mess with the one you are counting on. Sometime i will clip both biners in a cross load scenario in which case the extra is nice.
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asandh
Jun 14, 2004, 7:03 PM
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:)
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glowering
Jun 14, 2004, 7:48 PM
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I had a biner get the gate stuck open because an extra loop around the biner somehow slipped and held the gate open. Probably won't leave those loops on the biner anymore.
Another method is the 'twisty' method. Take a 24" sling, clip a biner on one end, give the other end of the sling about 5 or 6 twists, then clip that end of the sling to the biner. It twists up very nicely into a quickdraw sized package. Rack on harness or gear sling. I find it way easier than over the shoulder. For a 48" sling double it first then twist it.
I haven't tried this method yet for a sling with 2 biners but I think I'll experiment after having that biner gate get stuck open. Yes - I should remove the extra loops from the biner (and will from now on) but it's kind of a pain to do that on a tough stance.
And yes those new 8mm Dyneema slings are sweet.
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dredsovrn
Jun 14, 2004, 9:27 PM
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Trad on single rope I usually carry 6-10 2' slings with biners on them over my shoulder. Spare biners on my harness along with a few draws. On half ropes I carry 2 or 3 slings with biners, and about 12 draws on my harness.
Doubles eliminate a lot of the need for extending the pro as long as a 2' sling. Many times I don't need a draw on the piece if it has an integral short sling (like most cams), but due to the wandering routes I seem to find myself on, a quickdraw is often prudent. Pretty rare that I need a sling, but you never know.
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munckee
Jun 15, 2004, 8:38 PM
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Interesting input from everyone. I like the look of the alpine draw, but my question becomes this: How many spare biners do you carry in addition to those?
It would seem to me that over the shoulder with a biner clipped could be more useful in regards to spare biners because you can keep some spares on your harness and use them for clipping pro to a sling or as part of the anchor.
The alpine draw, OTOH, is easier when you rack your gear with multiple pieces on each biner (as I do), however, then you either need to steal spare biners from unused draws to build your anchor or carry some more spares in addition to the ones that are part of draws (but may not get used).
I guess the obvious answers are:
1. use your unused draws in your anchor and don't remove the biners; might allow you to carry shorter cordalettes, but might also use up some draws you'll need on the next pitch
2. carry some slings over a shoulder and some in draw form on your harness
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crackboy
Jun 15, 2004, 8:47 PM
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i carry all my slings as draws, since i don't want to have to come over my head every time i need a sling. i also rack 2-3 pieces per biner. for anchor biners i clip 4 biners to each other and then carry two bundles.
i always have 2-3 lockers on my harness anyway so that takes care of the power point. If i ever need extra biners then i just scrounge through my slings, and if i still need more i can always use the racking biners
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munckee
Jun 15, 2004, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: i carry all my slings as draws, since i don't want to have to come over my head every time i need a sling. i also rack 2-3 pieces per biner. for anchor biners i clip 4 biners to each other and then carry two bundles. i always have 2-3 lockers on my harness anyway so that takes care of the power point. If i ever need extra biners then i just scrounge through my slings, and if i still need more i can always use the racking biners
So you carry 8 extra biners? How many draws do you usually carry?
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mandrake
Jun 15, 2004, 9:24 PM
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In reply to: i carry all my slings as draws, since i don't want to have to come over my head every time i need a sling. i also rack 2-3 pieces per biner.
I agree, I don't like to be pulling slings off my shoulders on lead. Depending on the pitch, I'll mix up trad draws and longish quickdraws on my harness. Not set in stone (as it were) on this, if there's lots of wandering and the pitch is off vertical, I'll throw some slings over my shoulder.
On the second point, personally, I'm not too wild about racking multiple cams to one biner, because it's a problem for the cleaner. His goal is to come up to the belay with a neat rack for quick belay changeovers. If he's got three different-sized cams hanging on one biner, there's more of a cluster and an opportunity for dropping when changing them out at the belay. For ease of cleaning, when I place the cam usually I just leave the extra biner dangling if I've clipped a draw or trad draw to it. It's a little more weight, but it makes life easier.
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crackboy
Jun 15, 2004, 9:44 PM
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i call them my anchor in a can and learned it from a friend, usually only have one deciated one thats all oval wires, and the other is some random ovals and D's or any other biner than got bumped down from sling duty
as far as number of slings go it depnds, but usually around 10 or so depending on the pitch or the difficulty. I usually like to have extra slings on me since i like to run things together, or so i dont run out when i want one. i don't mind the extra weight since that is what i have always done from when i started leading.
2-3 cams a biner isn't too bad my main partner racks the same way i do. besides when she or i clean we usally just clip the piece with the sling right to the harness rather than take everything apart.
if its the last cam on the biner i just leave the extra biner on so it has a total of three, two on the sling and one on the piece.
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nthusiastj
Jun 16, 2004, 3:18 AM
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I carry 10 extendable trad draws and maybe 2 or 3 sport draws.
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munckee
Jun 17, 2004, 12:27 AM
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Well, unless anyone can talk me out of it, I'm pretty settled on 10 alpine draws plus 2 long slings for "just in case".
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