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angelaa
Aug 2, 2004, 8:03 PM
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I heard from some guys at the gear shop in Laramie WYO that there has been some bolt chopping @ Vedauwoo lately.
Does anyone know anything about this?? :x or heard anything ???
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photon
Aug 2, 2004, 8:27 PM
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If they are anchors that's too bad but otherwise who cares. I never did any bolted climbing at Vedauwoo that was worth doing.
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angelaa
Aug 2, 2004, 8:30 PM
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regardless. . . . of your opinion of Vedauwoo bolted climbs (I happen to agree with you :P ) - lt could put unknowing climbers in a sticky situation.
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tradklime
Aug 2, 2004, 8:42 PM
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I will pass on some hear-say... Several hangers were taken from anchors, but the bolts weren't chopped. I don't have personal knowledge of the extent or which routes.
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just_me
Aug 3, 2004, 5:43 AM
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I do not have any first hand knowledge, but this is an excerpt from the Vedawoo comments section on climbigboulder.com:
"The weekend of July 10 '04 a friend and I climbed on the Holdout. Beef Eater to be exact. When I got to the top, I noticed someone had chopped two of the three bolts. Luckily, I brought enough gear to make the belay safe, but that didn't solve the problem of getting down safely. We then walked to the three other rap stations on the Northwest side only to find the same scenario. All but one bolt was either chopped or the nuts and hangers were removed leaving the raps useless.
We then walked to the Southeast side only to find the same BS there. Now, we didn't look above "Flaming Blue Jesus" because it was out of sight from the top, but I presume it was the same story.
We ended up having to down climb a section of rock that was uncomfortable to say the least. Who ever did this was trying to prove a point of some kind. I'm not sure exactly what, but I did light a fire under my ass. This is a good way for someone to get hurt. Climbers beware of the state that some ahole left the raps on top of the Holdout."
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mtnjunkie
Aug 3, 2004, 11:32 PM
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I can personally vouch for the anchors at the top of Holdout. I was up there in early June. Got to the top of Holdout only to find all of the rap hangers removed from every anchor. However I didn't see any evidence of chopped bolts. Ended up leaving biners on hangers on the NE bolted route (don't have a guide in front of me). Even though I would graciously donate the biners to a climber if they reinstalled the chains on the top of the route, I'm sure some lowlife decided to grab our biners for booty. Don't worry, I only used one of the biners for testing in my shear strength analysis paper for a college course.
The walkoffs are a bit sketch even though they are shown in the guide. I'm not sure if that's the "point" that this idiot is trying to make, but it's despicable nonetheless.
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boadman
Aug 4, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Every single hanger on the holdout that could be reached from the top was pulled when I was there in late june. It was a pain in my ass. They left one of the old rivets on top of beef-eater, but it was a little sketchy, so I elected to do the walk off. The hold-out is great for getting a bunch of routes in, but the down-climb really slows things down. The next anchors should be glue-ins. Whoever did it obviously wasn't very good because they didn't steal any of the bolts on 11 cent moon, they probably sketched up the down climb, stole all the hangers, then crapped their pants down leading the 5.2 walk-off. I'm hoping they read this and realize the true extent of their shitheadedness.
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hungouttodry
Aug 5, 2004, 6:52 PM
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yea someone even snagged the hangers in the Potato chip on nautlius.
Bastards
-Joe
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angelaa
Aug 5, 2004, 6:53 PM
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that would explain why I saw someone rapping off of the anchor above Mother#1 this weekend instead of the potato chip! :x
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overlord
Aug 5, 2004, 6:56 PM
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it really sucks when that happens.
hope he breaks a leg. you know, karma and stuff.
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petsfed
Aug 5, 2004, 7:05 PM
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Gah.
At least the hanger jackers are too lazy to go out to where I spend most of my time. I wonder, why hasn't said idiot jacked the Walt's Wall Hangers? Probably because s/he can't climb hard enough or doesn't hang out Vedauwoo enough to know where the walk off on that formation is. Plus, I would imagine that the route to the Parabolic Slab (as its also known) that the chopper took was Baldwin's Chimney. I was really looking forward to doing that route soon. I wonder if the Nemo bolts are still there. Probably, you can't exactly walk to them. The bolts out at the Roof Ranch are untouched. Same with out at Poland Hill. Of course, if you chop the bolts at the Rat Brain, you can't get down with out (gasp!) downclimbing a 5.4.
Of course, maybe this is the work of monumentally lazy members of the ASCA in which case, finish the job MORANS!
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photon
Aug 5, 2004, 7:41 PM
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sounds like non-climbers to me. Before I started climbing in the 80's me and fellow drunken college students would go up to the voo and try to do the same thing, never did anything like this but if we saw anything close to the ground that looked removeable we would try to get it. They probably just view it as booty to hang off their review mirror or something and I really don't think karma has anything to do with this more like ignorance. Anyway, replace em with glue ins if you can as mentioned
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mungeclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: Of course, maybe this is the work of monumentally lazy members of the ASCA in which case, finish the job MORANS!
Dude, what are you saying about the ASCA?
Oh, and Just_me, what's the scoop...
"We ended up having to down climb a section of rock that was uncomfortable to say the least."
Back in the day, at Josh, and we aren't half as hard as Wyoming climbers at V, we had all kinds of sketch downclimbs to get off formations. Sounds like you could make it down "ok". Are these guys just removing convenience anchors? and the downclimb was the original descent?
A mere convenience anchor shouldn't go in in the first place. But if it's unsafe from an experienced climbers perspective, then maybe they belong there. What kind of downclimb is it?
cheers,
munge
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gawd
Aug 5, 2004, 8:10 PM
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I love how everyone who has learned ina gym seems to find this as an abomination. If there is a walk off to any route/formation what is the point of scarring the rock and adding convenience anchors. Climbing is supposed to be a challenge so learn to deal with adverse situations it will only pay off in the future.
The point of only removing hangers is to send a message without adding more damage to the rock. I am sure if you put the hangers back they will disappear again and again and again.
When did climbers become so heavily reliant on bolts? I would say somewhere around '91 when the price of the rotohammers came down to a near reasonable level. I think that all bolts should be put in with only a hnad drill so that a person whom happens to be bolt happy will consider their action before going ahead and adding convenience bolts.
I have removed hundreds of hangers from unworthy routes and will continue to do so until "developers" unstand that the reliance on bolts needs to be mitgated and the adventure of climbing re-established. You may ask "why does gawd get to make these decisions without consulting the community?" amd I answer it this way "who decided that a non-natural line or convinence bolt is right?" I have as much right to remove these bolts as the person who is placing them has the right to place them.
Instead of whining about it on some climbing related website where I am sure 80%++ of weakend warriors, do something about it. Talk is just that, nothing but dispelled air, whereas actions show the true nature of someones capacity handle real life situations.
Again if you can walk off a formation/route and there is adequate protection possibilites for a natural anchor, then there should never be a bolt or any type of fixed protection. I recommend going out and working outside your comfort level, move above your gear and find out what freedom is....bolts tether you to weakness.
fuck off.
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petro
Aug 5, 2004, 8:19 PM
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I sheepishly blame the Wyoming cowboys.
Baaa baaaa
Baaaaaa-stards!!
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photon
Aug 5, 2004, 8:23 PM
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gawd,
I recommend you sell your computer and any other modern conveniences you own so that you truly can remain true to your purist theology. Then your moronic dribble will at least contain some consistency until then, get your hyppocrisy bib to catch the spray and when that gets full just STFU
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paganmonkeyboy
Aug 5, 2004, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: I have removed hundreds of hangers from unworthy routes and will continue to do so until "developers" unstand that the reliance on bolts needs to be mitgated and the adventure of climbing re-established. f--- off.
I do hope you understand that this is Your Opinion Only gawd...and whether I agree with you or not, that too would be My Opinion...
question - will seeing some n00b from the gym fall on the walk off and break an arm put the adventure back in it for ya ?
What about the bolts on Silver Spur next to Yer Mother (I think thats the route...right side of coke bottle...) ? should we wack those too, since you could toprope that face ? How is bolting a face to climb it safely all that different in theory from bolting a belay ? bolts is bolts is bolts...
f-- on...
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gawd
Aug 5, 2004, 8:34 PM
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I do not think that a face that can be top roped easily should be bolted, what is the point in deface the enviroment for the benefit of ones ego? The challenge exists wheter the rock is ruined by some rap bolter or if the face is left pristine for all to enjoy.
If a newbie falls off of a rock whilst descending then they do not have the proper skill set to be there and got what they deserve. Climbing is about challenging oneself and accepting the fact that it is dangerous. Tell me why most climbing accidents occur while rappelling?
photon, your point hold no water and I cannot see any relevance with it. I have earned everything that is mine and I take responsibilities for all my actions, so I do not see how getting rid of my computer would be related in my belief that climbers need to be self reliant. I do not take my computer climbing and I do not rely on the internet or anyone who camps on the internet a valid source of anything other then opinions. And yes pagen I agree my words are my opinions the only difference is that I act on what I say whereas most of the people here do nothing other then spray conjecture and poor advice.
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mungeclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 11:36 PM
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In reply to: I sheepishly blame the Wyoming cowboys. Baaa baaaa Baaaaaa-stards!!
You can't pull the wool over my eyes.
heh
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petsfed
Aug 5, 2004, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Of course, maybe this is the work of monumentally lazy members of the ASCA in which case, finish the job MORANS! Dude, what are you saying about the ASCA? Oh, and Just_me, what's the scoop... "We ended up having to down climb a section of rock that was uncomfortable to say the least." Back in the day, at Josh, and we aren't half as hard as Wyoming climbers at V, we had all kinds of sketch downclimbs to get off formations. Sounds like you could make it down "ok". Are these guys just removing convenience anchors? and the downclimb was the original descent? A mere convenience anchor shouldn't go in in the first place. But if it's unsafe from an experienced climbers perspective, then maybe they belong there. What kind of downclimb is it? cheers, munge
#1, I was just poking fun at an easy target. My experience with the ASCA is that they do their jobs admirably and quickly, thus the "monumentally lazy" qualifier.
#2, One of the posts on climbingboulder.com stated specifically that the bolts at the top of Arch Stanton are still there. You can't just walk up to them. However, it was bolts exclusively on the North Side from the tops of bolted routes. Not "there's a bolt in the middle" but specifically sport-style bolted climbs. If they wanted to make a statement, go chop Arch Stanton. Its an old school A5 that didn't go free until Piana and Skinner retrobolted it. But no, this is some asshat screwing with a section of Vedauwoo that doesn't attract the slavering masses. That is, after you've served your apprenticeship on the Nautilus, The Rat Brain and the Walt's Wall/Fall Wall complex, you go to Holdout, or Crystal Freeway, or Old Easy. And the walkoff is purportedly sketchy. More importantly, every single bolt on the top of that formation has been there since the late 80's.
Vedauwoo doesn't need a bolt war!
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nolan14
Aug 6, 2004, 12:32 AM
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Chop, Chop! Bolts no good @ veedauwoo, use trad or go go free solo.
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kid
Aug 6, 2004, 1:07 AM
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As it may be a disturbing thought to get to the top of a route and find that the hangers have been removed ,consider this: What if you came to the top of the climb and the flake that those bolts had been attached to was no longer there. I sugest that people climb with a little more self reliance and realize that routes and conditions change. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. If you show up to a climb with your sport gear and no back up equipment, you are getting what you deserve. Use a nut snugged up around the bolt, place some traditional pro, drive a piton or carry your own hand drive bolt kit to protect your self or turn around and head home. All the talk of rock climbing morality, who is right and who is wrong. You sound like a bunch of winers looking for some one to blamb for your own unpreparedness. Your not on a climbing wall at your local health club, your in the mountains. Continue to post current information on route conditions, respect each other and live to climb another day. Good luck with these issues.
This is not the END, This is not the beginning of the END, but rather the END of the Beginning.
Kid
Whitefish MT.
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calamity_chk
Aug 6, 2004, 6:59 AM
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amber_chk moved this thread from US - Mountain States to Regional Discussions.
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ikefromla
Aug 6, 2004, 8:12 AM
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I wonder what will happen to my user rating if I say that Gawd should ...
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just_me
Aug 6, 2004, 1:37 PM
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In reply to: Oh, and Just_me, what's the scoop... "We ended up having to down climb a section of rock that was uncomfortable to say the least." Back in the day, at Josh, and we aren't half as hard as Wyoming climbers at V, we had all kinds of sketch downclimbs to get off formations. Sounds like you could make it down "ok". Are these guys just removing convenience anchors? and the downclimb was the original descent? A mere convenience anchor shouldn't go in the first place. But if it's unsafe from an experienced climber’s perspective, then maybe they belong there. What kind of down climb is it? cheers, munge
My original post says I said I do not have any first hand knowledge. The quote in my post came from the Vedawoo comments section on climbigboulder.com. The quote belongs to someone else. I do not know if these bolts are considered "convenience bolts". Does any one else have any first hand knowledge?
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