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sexton
May 22, 2002, 1:10 AM
Post #26 of 37
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Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 29
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beerandblood,
No worries, and thanks for the comments. I thought it was a good discussion and never got out of hand. Sure, I knew that going against the "must learn passive gear first' grain was going to ruffle a few feathers, but it gets a discussion going.
Ooze,
Yer barking up the wrong tree.
Ooze wrote:
>Buy hexes, but nothing smaller than a six or seven. Placements for the little ones, where nuts wouldn't be as good or better, really are rare.
>
Totally agree with this. If it goes in the crack, there isn't much room left for camming.
>Your original position was that hexes are useless when you have cams, and just gather dust in the closet.
>
If you want to take that statement out of context, be my guest, but it doesn't change the facts. I have acknowledged from the start of this discussion that hexes have their place, but that the limited number of placements compared to the cam placements where hexes don't work, makes hexes prety useless. In my first post I said:
"I can think of a few, rare placements where a hex would go and a cam wouldn't. But I can think of many, many placements where a hex sucks and a cam is bomber."
I still feel that way, and will still assert it publicly. No backpedaling there.
In that post I also said:
"I still take a few for walls and the occasional alpine route if I know a belay will take them, but otherwise, I haven't used them free climbing in at least 10 years."
OK, maybe not using them in 10 years is a bit of an exaggeration. A few of the larger sizes will get used on a few climbs every year. And, they usually go along for the car ride, just in case. The point I was trying to make with that slight exaggeration was that cams fit so many more placements than hexes, the hexes are not the best buy for a new climber. The vast majority of routes don't *require* hexes.
>The majority of the respondents have disagreed, so you started backpeddling:
>
See above. I'm still happy to stick by what I said, even if it goes against the grain. Now if you want to just say 'Baaa' and repeat what you've heard from others be my guest.
Quote:(mine)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I should ask my question another way. If you have plenty of cams to do a given route, do you leave them behind and take the hexes instead?
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>Which is - well, a stupid question.
>
Care to explain why? Again, it's out of context. That quote references the argument that some people made about hexes being 'more bomber' than cams. That's just B.S. If hexes are more bomber, why don't you leave the cams behind. The reason is, that while a bomber hex placement will hold nearly anything, you don't find as many bomber hex placements as you do bomber cam placements. Certain exceptions exist, of course.
>What pissed me off way your patronizing, sarcastic tone:
>
Agreed. My tone was sarcastic and patronizing. I suspect for much the same reason as yours was. Someone saying that hexes are 'static', confusing a piece pulling with one 'tracking out' makes me think I'm talking to an idiot. I know those weren't your terms, Ooze.
[other out of context quotes snipped]
>You're just wrong, Sexton. Thirty years of experience? My *ss.
>
Yup. And learned enough to know that the old 'hexes are good, learn on them first' line is crap.
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stevematthys
May 22, 2002, 2:45 AM
Post #27 of 37
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Registered: Sep 13, 2000
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here are my thought.
a hex is better in some places.
a cam is better in some places.
a nut is better in some places.
each piece will work better then the others in certain situations.
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stevematthys
May 22, 2002, 2:46 AM
Post #28 of 37
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Registered: Sep 13, 2000
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here are my thought.
a hex is better in some places.
a cam is better in some places.
a nut is better in some places.
each piece will work better then the others in certain situations.
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rockjunkie
May 22, 2002, 3:54 AM
Post #29 of 37
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Registered: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: 198
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Where's the love? You all should know as well as anyone that climbing is full of choices, many of which depend on the circumstance and others that depend totally on personal preference.
A good placement is a good placement. But as climbers you all know that many elements in any kind of system (including cams) contain more things that can fail. Some people are uncomfortable with this and therefore reluctant to use cams where they may be able to use a hex (or nut or tricam- hexes and cams aren't the only type of pro) with a little more effort and thought than it takes to place a cam while placing. But this isn't worthy of a heated discussion is it?
Peace brethren.
~tommy
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traddaddy
May 22, 2002, 1:36 PM
Post #30 of 37
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Registered: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 195
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Sexton,
You Sir, are a dumb ass, and have just proved it by saying:
"Someone saying that hexes are 'static', confusing a piece pulling with one 'tracking out' makes me think I'm talking to an idiot."
I said:
"A hex is a static piece. Have you ever seen a cam get yanked and track out of place?"
Perhaps I should have asked the question in a different way...When a fall occurs, have you ever seen a hexes track? How 'bout a cam?...I have.
IMOHO, I believe starting to lead with passive pro will make you a better leader.
My first two years leading I climbed with passive pro because I could not afford cams. So don't give me that s--- about cams go where hexes won't. There are ways around everything.
I believe one should starting leading with passive pro, then when you buy the cams it's all just plug and go (once again, IMOHO)
[ This Message was edited by: traddaddy on 2002-05-22 06:38 ]
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sexton
May 24, 2002, 1:34 AM
Post #31 of 37
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Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 29
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Traddaddy,
All useful comment on hexes is probably over. I'll clear the air and not post again on this topic.
Trad wrote:
>You Sir, are a dumb ass, and have just proved it by saying:
"Someone saying that hexes are 'static', confusing a piece pulling with one 'tracking out' makes me think I'm talking to an idiot."
>
Yup, that was a dumb ass thing to say and you're correct for saying so. What I meant to say was "Someone saying that cams aren't static, confusing a piece pulling with one tracking out makes me think I'm talking to an idiot."
But we don't have to guess about your level of intelligence or climbing knowledge. It's all there on your web site www.geocities.com/traddaddy
In October of last year you made your first trip to Seneca. Over a 4 day weekend, you managed to climb 2 routes, 3 pitches per day for 2 days. 6 pitches in 2 days. Wow.
Those routes were rated 5.2 and 5.4. Let me repeat; 5.2 and 5.4. Wow again.
And how many of those pitches did you lead? It's hard to tell from the trip report, but it's either 1 or 0.
And you climbed with a party of 5? Classic gumby style. Why didn't you break it out into 2 rope teams with you leading one of them? 5.2 just a little too stiff for you?
6 pitches of 5.2-5.4 climbing in 4 days on your very first trip to a place you had heard a lot about. Sum that up, Trad, and you are the biggest newbie/gumby poser participating on this site.
But that's not the funny part. The real funny part is that you sprayed about this trip on at least 4 different web sites. You were so proud of your trip.
As evidence of your pride, you list that trip report as 1 of 5 on your web site. The others are a 3rd class hike up Long's in '97 I've come DOWN that trail a few times), a hike up Torreys in '01, and some top roping trip at a place that nobody has ever heard of.
In the past 5 years, are those 5.2 routes routes the pinnacle of your climbing accomplishments?
What a joke. You almost had me fooled into thinking you were a real climber. In fact, you're a 5.7 top roper with a big mouth and nothing to back it up.
One of your own partners claims to have never seen you lead a trad route.
Posted rec.climbing, May 10,2002, in reference to an Alpine Bod harness
>I've used one for about 10 years and have never flipped upside down when I fell.
>
10 years? And you're still following 5.2? Some people learn slow, I guess.
Posted March 7, 2002
>Last year when I was still the rookie at Seneca (Am I still the
rookie?), ...FWIW, from one rookie to another may I recommend the Old Ladies
Route 5.3
>
Posted July 19, 2001
>I am ashamed to says this, but is there any wall in Eldo that has a walkup I could drop a top rope on?
>
You came to Eldo for a day and are looking for a top rope? It just gets more hillarious.
Posted June 15, 2001, in reference to his favorite route at Red River Gorge.
>Bedtime For Bonzo 5.6*** is my favorite.
>
I get the picture, Trad. You're a 5.7 top roper (maybe), have done a couple of 3rd class CO hikes, and following 5.2 at Seneca is your biggest climbing feat in the past 5 years.
You're as light as they come.
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clam
May 26, 2002, 3:38 AM
Post #32 of 37
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Registered: Mar 8, 2002
Posts: 182
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Hexes are great. Took my first leader fall on a BD #1 hexentric. A little fellow about the size of the end of your pinky. It held beautifully. I trust 'em. I always carry a bunch with me.
I would not use them in every placement however. It's simply not necessary with the wide range of protection available these days. Each piece has its place; so to speak.
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timpanogos
May 27, 2002, 4:15 AM
Post #33 of 37
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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WOW! Brutal - I thought a sexton was someone who dug graves - I can see you give the added value of killing the person also.
Another gumby with shaking knees - awaiting the falling sord.
Chad
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sagarmatha
May 27, 2002, 7:01 AM
Post #34 of 37
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Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 66
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Far from giving a lecture, there is an interesting story about how to react when someone calls you (mostly bad)names. One day in India, a farmer travelled three days and three nights to go and see Buddha. When the farmer reached the temple where Buddha was meditating in a sitting position, he started to insult him for a whole day and a night. The morning after the farmer stopped the insults, and asked Buddha "How can you sit there doing nothing when I have been insult you so much in the last day and night?" Buddha looked at the men smiling, and then asked him " If you go to someone to give him a present, and this someone refuses your present, who owns the present"?
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traddaddy
May 28, 2002, 7:14 PM
Post #35 of 37
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Registered: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 195
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Sexton,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to read your ranting a little earlier.
I'll send you a PM to set your ass straight, because it's obviously crooked with your head that far up it.
Traddaddy
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traddaddy
May 28, 2002, 8:04 PM
Post #36 of 37
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Registered: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 195
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BTW Sexton,
Why don't you endulge us and PROVE your a climber and not some 12 year old sitting behind a computer screen.
You profile has no links to pics, websites, no climbing info at all.
I'm sure a heavy sprayer like youself would have stories to amaze a 'lil slawjawed 5.2 lightweight climber like myself.
Surely, you have some pics or something, but then again, maybe not.
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andy_lemon
Jun 20, 2002, 6:58 AM
Post #37 of 37
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Registered: Sep 7, 2001
Posts: 3335
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SEXTON: Most of everything that you have said here is redundant... for example, Trad said "Don't forget how to place hexes etc." you come back to say, "come on trad, placing pro isn't rocket science, it is all part of experience"... KEY WORD being experience. If you forget how to place hexes then that said person obviously wouldn't have experience??? Redundant aye...
On a further note... it is also not "rocket science" that a hex will fit were a cam will not (expecially when you have no nuts!!!)
Also, you may have climbed for 30 years or you may be a 12 year old sitting behind a computer. Without pics we will never know... but who the hell cares about you. You were dissin' on Traddaddy... The man who taught ME how to climb. Not to mention a member here longer than you bubba. OH and uh, he has went on a few RC.com excursions:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=ListPhoto&PhotoID=3996
All I'm saying pops... or son... whoever you are... I know for a fact you don't have any form like this guy:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=ListPhoto&PhotoID=1437
Andy Lemon
Jack of all trades, master of none.
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