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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 3:48 PM
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wednesday night my main climbing partner, kevin caudil, took a seventy to eighty foot deck fall on animal cracker in the city of rocks. his back is broken, they operated yesterday, and he is recovering in the hospital right now. luckily, he is expected to recover in full in six to eight months. i wasn't there when it happened, i couldn't get off of work to go with them this week; but i talked to both kevin (the climber) and alan (belayer) yesterday at length, and a couple things strike me as important. first: wear a fucking helmet!!1 kevin hit hard on his back and the back of his head, both he and alan are convinced that he would be dead if he weren't wearing one. second: be continually vigilant about your gear placements. kevin is probably one of the safest climbers i know. he has been climbing regularly for about eight years, and leading trad for most of that, i have watched him take twenty footers on his gear. basically, his skills are honed, this is no newbie accident. what gets me... no, what terrifies me, is that he swears he thought that his gear was bomber. the accident happened at the crux of the route which is a narrow crack. kevin had a stopper in below him and had already taken two smallish falls onto it. on his third attempt he fell a bit further, pulled the stopper, and two or three (this is still unclear) more pieces, one of which was a tricam, and one of which was a small cam (a tcu i'm guessing). personally i am in shock that this could happen, because in this case i know the climber and have climbed with him extensively. it's scarier when it hits close to home because i can't dismiss him as careless or inexperienced, i know he is not. from what alan told me on the phone last night, he had sewn up the top part of this thing pretty good, and all of those pieces pulled. fucking insane! almost beyond belief. ok so now i'm rambling, this is just mainly free association right now anyway because i am still a little bit in shock about the whole thing. but i just wanted to let everyone know that it can happen to the best of us. make sure those pieces are bomber. be vigilant. thanks for reading. -sean
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hoppinbig
Sep 24, 2004, 4:00 PM
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Damn dude... Please send my wishes for a speedy recovery to your buddy. I'm sure many will speculate as to the cause of this accident - all I can say is that we should all re-check our gear after we've fallen on it... just cause it held one fall doesn't mean it will hold another. No doubt this will haunt Kevin for long time - good luck to him.
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picaco
Sep 24, 2004, 4:05 PM
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My condolences. Benjamin
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overlord
Sep 24, 2004, 4:07 PM
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just a reminder, that things happen to everybody. hope he gets well soon.
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mother_sheep
Sep 24, 2004, 4:07 PM
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Hey Sean. Sorry about your friend and partner. I hope he gets up and running as soon as possible. Tracy
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jbell2355
Sep 24, 2004, 4:10 PM
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Sorry to hear about your buddy...wish him a speedy recovery. It will be interesting to see if you can learn any more about the accident. It seems very unusual that everything would pull considering all the background info you gave.
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killclimbz
Sep 24, 2004, 4:10 PM
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Sorry to hear about your bud. Your story also reminds me that gear shifts when you take a fall. What was previously safe may start getting sketchy after a fall or two. I've had pieces that were fine on fall 1, but pop on me on fall 2. After examination I realized that the piece had shifted and it was not seated like it was when I first placed it. I would have never thought of that until it happened to me. Fortunately the consequences weren't as dire as to what happened to your friend. I hope he recovers quickly.
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valeberga
Sep 24, 2004, 4:26 PM
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Dang. A good reminder that it's unsafe to take repeated falls on gear as you would while sport climbing.
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petsfed
Sep 24, 2004, 4:42 PM
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The other possibility is that Kevin (and you) has a misplaced confidence in his gear placing ability. The stopper that blew may well have been good for short falls and not shifted, but the placement was such that a larger fall would kill it. My condolences to you and Kevin. Hopefully he'll be back on the boat just as soon as he gets healed up (mentally and physically).
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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 4:57 PM
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In reply to: The other possibility is that Kevin (and you) has a misplaced confidence in his gear placing ability. yes. i'll admit, that's possible. generally speaking, i don't think that's the case, but i'll explore that for a minute: no one but kevin can really say, but just from where i sit, i think the issue may be specific to small gear, and leading on gear at, or near your limit. in my experience (which is limited) climbing accidents usually happen when two or more mistakes compound.. with that in mind, the margin of error gets smaller the smaller the piece of gear, so it's harder to determine whether a placement is truly bomber. also, it is likely that kevin was pretty pumped and/or sketched when placing these pieces, as .10a is just a few letters below his limit. my guesse is that he might not have been as critical of his gear because he was just trying to keep moving. that is the only reason i can see that his gear would have pulled. obviously the top piece had a chance of pulling because of the repeated loading, but the next few were not loaded. addendum: i did ask alan if the other gear might have shifted due to the rope coming tight on the first couple of falls, he said kevin had placed a directional piece right off of the deck, slung short, and that it had done it's job from what he remembered. he was pretty sure that the top pieces had not been pulled outward during the first two falls.
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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 6:01 PM
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thank you all for your well wishes. i will pass them along to kevin when i go to the hospital this afternoon.
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reprieve
Sep 24, 2004, 6:42 PM
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ugh, scary shit, especially for someone just getting in to leading on gear. hope your friend is ok.
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ryanpfleger
Sep 24, 2004, 7:23 PM
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That is a major bummer, best wishes to Kevin. Is he from Boise? Just one thought without trying to guess as to the nature of the accident, or second guess the climbers judgement... A directional at the bottom doesn't necessarily mean the pieces in between top and bottom won't shift, unless the climb is dead straight, or the runners are sufficiently long. If you get more info as to why the pro may have pulled please post again. Ryan (a fellow Idahoan)
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iridesantacruz
Sep 24, 2004, 7:40 PM
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i hope he has fast recovery..... and the rest of his climbing career is safe, if he goes back to it
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prufrock
Sep 24, 2004, 7:48 PM
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Accidents happen. I hope he fully recovers -- it is great that he is still alive. As for the pieces that failed after the stopper popped, it is possible that they experienced a jerk from the rope when the stopper popped. That could either pull them out or shift them around so that when it was their turn to try and hold the fall they were no longer a bomber placement. Best wishes to the guy.
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kman
Sep 24, 2004, 7:53 PM
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What type of rock was it?? I wish him a speedy recovery.
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cracklover
Sep 24, 2004, 8:02 PM
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My best wishes for you, and for him. May he have a full and a speedy recovery. I appreciate what you're saying, and agree. The simple fact is that no matter how good we get at placing gear, it's always a crap shoot (especially with small gear). All we can do is skew the odds more in our favor. But even with the best odds, whenever you fall, you're still just rolling the dice. This truly *is* a scary thought! It's understandable that many of us try to convince ourselves that it is not so. GO
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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 8:04 PM
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it was good granite. there has been no mention of the rock failing. i just got back from visiting kevin. he is drugged up and resting, getting hugs from his little daughter. it sucks to see him laying there. damn.
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reno
Sep 24, 2004, 8:23 PM
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Yo, Elvis: Send my best wishes for a speedy recovery to your friend, would ya? Thanks, my friend...
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taino
Sep 24, 2004, 8:26 PM
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Damn... Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery for your friend. Cheers, Tai
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camhead
Sep 24, 2004, 8:30 PM
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dude, sean, that's scary. hope all is well for you and your friend. at the risk of turning this into one of those "armchair analyist" threads, I'll mention one more variable that may or may not have contributed to this accident. You said that Kevin had taken several falls, and that he had "sewn up" the upper portion of the climb. This brings the issue of the rope's elasticity into question. We all know that it is ideal to let a rope 'rest' for ten minutes or so after taking a lot of falls on it, as it has lost a lot of its stretch. Furthermore, this loss of stretch may have been compounded by the gear pulling. I have read in several places (such as analysis of Goran Krop's fatal accident) that if you sew it up too close, and then pull gear, all lower pieces will be hit with essentially a static force. just some thoughts. again, best wishes to Kevin, and I hope that this incident does not negatively effect your climbing,
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gamehendge
Sep 24, 2004, 8:46 PM
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I hope your friend has a full and speedy recovery.
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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 9:03 PM
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In reply to: I have read in several places (such as analysis of Goran Krop's fatal accident) that if you sew it up too close, and then pull gear, all lower pieces will be hit with essentially a static force. wow, thats amazing, i didn't know that. that could have alot to do with kevin's fall. it makes sense. thanks for your input paul. i don't 'think' it will negatively effect my climbing.
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brianinslc
Sep 24, 2004, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: wednesday night my main climbing partner, kevin caudil, took a seventy to eighty foot deck fall on animal cracker in the city of rocks. Really sorry to hear about this. Here's to a speedy recovery! Which route on the Animal Cracker? Assassin, GBH, Animal Cracker? Geez, I haven't climbed on that formation in a few years... Thanks, I'm placin' a bit more pro this weekend! Brian in SLC
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jdouble
Sep 24, 2004, 9:27 PM
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Thanks for posting this information elvislegs. A speedy recovery for your friend.
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elvislegs
Sep 24, 2004, 9:32 PM
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brian, i believe the route was animal cracker. have fun this weekend.
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brianinslc
Sep 24, 2004, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: brian, i believe the route was animal cracker. have fun this weekend. As I recall, there's a tough move out from the flaring flake crack up high on that, then thin crack top out? Er something like that. Come on over. Campsite 70 (upper breadloaves). Thanks, -Brian in SLC
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elvislegs
Sep 29, 2004, 11:20 PM
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just got off the phone with kevin again. he is walking. he went for a half mile walk today. doing well, all things considered. thank you all for you well wishes. he is also much more coherent now, and we talked some more about the route and the accident. this is a synopsis of his account: kevin said that he had been feeling fine climbing the sustained .10a animal cracker. he had indeed fallen twice before the deck fall. both falls were on different consecutive stoppers placed behind a large flake. both stoppers were bomber. he looked at them again after falling on them and had no qualms about climbing above them again, he was not sketched about these pieces holding. at this point the route lies back a large flake out to easier climbing, as he climbed out further he greased off again, pulling outward on the flake, he thinks that perhaps the flake was a little bit "expando" and had shifted as he climbed, or as he came off, letting the pieces drop out, and sending him for a BIG fall. he remembers seeing those pieces come out and thinking that he would be taking a huge fall, but he was still confident that the metolious cam he had placed below the two stoppers was going to stop him short of the gound. he doesn't know what made the cam fail, but it might have something to do with the fact that he was looking at a near factor 1 fall by that point. hard to say really. he is pretty sure that there was no zipper effect on his pieces during the first two falls, he was dilligent about putting long runners where they needed to be, and had looked closely at the system as it was loaded on the initial two falls. he is sure that the pieces did not shift due to rope pull. the only explanation he can give is the flake shifting. kevin's most vivid memory of the day is the enourmous impact as he hit the ground. more specifically he says he was amazed at the force with which his head struck the rock behind him. as i mentioned before, he was wearing a helmet, which he and his belayer fully attribute to saving his life. even with the helmet on the impact blurred his vision to the point of only being able to vaguely make out shapes, and seeing stars for a good long while. kevin specifically wanted me to tell everyone out in interweb climb land, to ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET AT THE CRAGS. it's sad really, go to any local crag and look around, you will see people everywhere without helmets. it's like if you wear one you are some sort of climb nerd or something. what a stupid reason that would be to die before you've had all your fun eh? two months ago in boise, an experienced local climber died after being struck in the head by a rock. less than two weeks ago, another, longtime climber and pocatello pump organizer died due to rockfall from the top, kevin caudil is alive at home today, getting hugs from his daughter, because he wore a helmet. climbing is dangerous people, minimize your risk all you can, put your helmet on. that is all.
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jdouble
Sep 29, 2004, 11:53 PM
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Thanks for the posts Elvislegs, all the best to Kevin. My brainbucket just went into the pack for good.
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crimpandgo
Sep 30, 2004, 12:02 AM
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70 feet fall,,, and he is up walking around? Someone was watching over him that day... These "good ending" stories are always nice to read. Stories like this are also the reason I have somuch trouble stepping into trad leading. Lots of variables that climber needs to control and many variables the climber can't control. glad to hear he is ok :)
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lokiraven
Sep 30, 2004, 12:13 AM
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Damn........hope that dude gets better. Best wishes to all involved. Ryan
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johnson6102002
Sep 30, 2004, 1:02 AM
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wow thats a crazy story i hope your freind has a good recovery and i also hope he can undertake teh huge mental bariers when going back into climbing
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cracklover
Sep 30, 2004, 1:13 PM
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It's fabulous news that his injuries weren't more severe, and that he's recovering so well and so quickly. Thanks for posting! GO
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usmc_2tothetop
Sep 30, 2004, 1:23 PM
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Wow...very interesting. I'll have to remember that. That's what scares me about trad.
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unabonger
Sep 30, 2004, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: We all know that it is ideal to let a rope 'rest' for ten minutes or so after taking a lot of falls on it, as it has lost a lot of its stretch. Good point.
In reply to: ... Furthermore, this loss of stretch may have been compounded by the gear pulling...I have read in several places (such as analysis of Goran Krop's fatal accident) that if you sew it up too close, and then pull gear, all lower pieces will be hit with essentially a static force. Here I think you're getting into less solid ground. Are you implying that a longer distances between lower pro would have been safer? Here's to a speedy recovery. UB
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cfnubbler
Sep 30, 2004, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: Are you implying that a longer distances between lower pro would have been safer? I think this may be a reference to one of two ideas. 1. The idea (which I believe has been tested empirically, see the RGoldstone's distilled wisdom thread) that increased rope drag in a system, as might be caused by lots of pieces with inadequate runners, effectively reduces the amount of rope actually elongating under load in a fall and thus increases the force applied to the top piece of protection. or 2. I also seemed to recall someone suggesting in another thread that the short elapsed time between impacts when a top piece fails and there is another a very short distance below doesn't allow the rope to "recover" its elasticity before the next piece is impacted, resulting in a higher peak load on that piece. I believe the poster's comment was a reference to one or both of these ideas. But maybe I'm wrong. Lets wait and see... -Nubbler
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elvislegs
Oct 1, 2004, 3:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Are you implying that a longer distances between lower pro would have been safer? ... I also seemed to recall someone suggesting in another thread that the short elapsed time between impacts when a top piece fails and there is another a very short distance below doesn't allow the rope to "recover" its elasticity before the next piece is impacted, resulting in a higher peak load on that piece. -Nubbler that's how i understood paul's comment.
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camhead
Oct 1, 2004, 4:51 PM
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yeah, I was speaking to the idea of the rope not "recovering" its elasticity between closely-places pieces. Don't know if it is a factor or not, but I just recall reading about it in an analysis of Kropp's accident.
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boadman
Oct 1, 2004, 5:01 PM
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No offense to the belayer, but another option is that the belayer was a little nervous after the repeated falls and didn't give a dynamic enough belay. With a static belay, even good gear can pull.
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madmax
Oct 1, 2004, 5:32 PM
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In reply to: Dang. A good reminder that it's unsafe to take repeated falls on gear as you would while sport climbing. This is certainly not the moral of the story. We only wish it were so simple. Other people have suggested more pertinent lessons to learn, such as the "elasticity and recovery" of the rope, distance between placements, and prudent runner use. Perhaps valeberga was suggesting something more like checking your placements after falls, but repeated falls on the gear is superfluous to the real cause(s) of the accident. Amazing Kevin is walking around after such a massive fall. Best wishes to him.
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unabonger
Oct 2, 2004, 10:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Are you implying that a longer distances between lower pro would have been safer? I think this may be a reference to one of two ideas. 1. The idea (which I believe has been tested empirically, see the RGoldstone's distilled wisdom thread) that increased rope drag in a system, as might be caused by lots of pieces with inadequate runners, effectively reduces the amount of rope actually elongating under load in a fall and thus increases the force applied to the top piece of protection. Right. Effective fall factor is ALWAYS greater than the theoretical fall factor. But given the same amount of drag, a shorter fall with the same rope out would be of a lesser fall factor.
In reply to: 2. I also seemed to recall someone suggesting in another thread that the short elapsed time between impacts when a top piece fails and there is another a very short distance below doesn't allow the rope to "recover" its elasticity before the next piece is impacted, resulting in a higher peak load on that piece. Intriguing, but on this I've yet to see data. Till then I think I'll stick with the general practice that shorter falls are safer. UB
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billcoe_
Oct 3, 2004, 1:34 AM
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Elvislegs; I'm so glad your friend Kevin appears so relatively healthy considering... whew. I was within feet of a near identical accident at Smith rocks (Tale of 2 shitties - I think was the route) @18 years ago which resulted in a fatality. Like Kevin remembering the hit, I remember the sound. This guy, Canadian fella, had a very, very, similar experiance, climbed a trad 5.10a, and does 2 falls on his fourth piece which held fine, then climbed up straight where he should have gone right, putting in more pieces, falls - and then pulled 4 pieces in succession, including the med wired he had fallen on twice. Grounds like a sac of potatoes from @ 70 feet up and dies in front for his buddies and girlfriend. We rapped down (we were like @ 50 feet higher almost directly above on another route) did CPR for some time: finally a Dr. showed up and pronouned him dead. The smell of wheat Thins on his breath, sage brush and juniper berries mixed with the feeling of sadness and helplessness has stayed with me very strongly till today. damn. It could have been so bad, glad for everybody there....It is a reminder that this is a dangerous sport. 1 more thing, and I don't want to argue here, but you keep preaching about the helmet. I would suggest you go back and read Royal Robbins, one of the the premier climbers of the last century, if you want to know why so many people do not wear them: it really has nothing to do people feeling they don't look stylish like you indicate, but with mind set. There is a philosophical reason, of which skill and philosophy set the stage, which basically boils down to the fact that it's inside the head, not outside that counts for safety reasons. Lynn Hill fell 90 feet with out a helmet and walked away. Last year a guy doing Higher Cathedral dies with his helmet on, and a free-solist with no helmet climbed over to assist. But that isn't the point is it? Ya get in the mountains thats different - you wear it for objective dangers you can't control. I probably shouldn't post this helmet thing, as I am really just happy that your friend is fine, it's a shocking thing which could have been real bad but wasn't: Kevin looks like he still has his mental and physical health, and his daughter still has a father, it dos not get better than that! Thanks for sharing and congratulations.
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elvislegs
Oct 4, 2004, 10:17 PM
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In reply to: Elvislegs; I'm so glad your friend Kevin appears so relatively healthy considering... whew. I was within feet of a near identical accident at Smith rocks (Tale of 2 s--- - I think was the route) @18 years ago which resulted in a fatality. Like Kevin remembering the hit, I remember the sound. This guy, Canadian fella, had a very, very, similar experiance, climbed a trad 5.10a, and does 2 falls on his fourth piece which held fine, then climbed up straight where he should have gone right, putting in more pieces, falls - and then pulled 4 pieces in succession, including the med wired he had fallen on twice. Grounds like a sac of potatoes from @ 70 feet up and dies in front for his buddies and girlfriend. We rapped down (we were like @ 50 feet higher almost directly above on another route) did CPR for some time: finally a Dr. showed up and pronouned him dead. The smell of wheat Thins on his breath, sage brush and juniper berries mixed with the feeling of sadness and helplessness has stayed with me very strongly till today. damn. It could have been so bad, glad for everybody there....It is a reminder that this is a dangerous sport. wow. that is rough.
In reply to: 1 more thing, and I don't want to argue here, but you keep preaching about the helmet. I would suggest you go back and read Royal Robbins, one of the the premier climbers of the last century, if you want to know why so many people do not wear them: actually, i have read some of Robbins' ideas, and i get it. i see where he (and you) are coming from, and even identify and agree to a certain extent.
In reply to: it really has nothing to do people feeling they don't look stylish like you indicate, but with mind set. There is a philosophical reason, of which skill and philosophy set the stage, which basically boils down to the fact that it's inside the head, not outside that counts for safety reasons. agreed. some climbers eschew helmets for this reason. however, i would venture to say (without any hard data to back it up), that considering climbing's increase in popularity, and with the gym-dustrial revolution which is in full force even yet; a very small percentage of those climbers who aren't wearing helmets, aren't wearing them because of the philosophical implications of assuming failure. no, i think that instead, they aren't wearing them because of a magazine-fed, cool climber = no helmet, stigma, of which they have failed to see the finer points. climbing is very peculiar that way, there is a very fine line between something being foolish and being fun. it's personal and everyone's experience and comfort level will be different. what may be entirely safe and prudent for you to do, might be insane for me because of my expereince level and skillz. in this way, i don't see the helmet issue any differently from the soloing issue. that said, for me, i will minimize my risk by wearing one, and i will recommend them highly to others because, as you said, hazards exist in climbing which are beyond our control (not just in the mountains, even sport climbing at a well traveled crag). that's really what i'm preaching here.
In reply to: ...I am really just happy that your friend is fine, it's a shocking thing which could have been real bad but wasn't: Kevin looks like he still has his mental and physical health, and his daughter still has a father, it dos not get better than that! it sure doesn't. thanks again billcoe and everyone else for the well wishes and prayers. kevin's condition continues to improve.
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sarcat
Oct 4, 2004, 11:10 PM
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I'll still always wear my helmet. Glad your friend is OK.
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hugepedro
Oct 5, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Glad your friend is alive. Hope he recovers fully. Here is my guess. Your, and your friend's, assumption, that he placed bomber gear, was incorrect. Your friend considered gear placed behind a flake as bomber - I'll bet he never does again. I always consider gear behind a flake as suspect. Also, when climbing at or near one's limit, it's a good idea (if the route allows) to place more than 1 piece and equalize them before a crux. That would be a practice of a climber who is "very safe", and "places good gear". 1. He took a couple falls and didn't give the rope enough time to recover. 2. By the 3rd fall the force was enough (or him pulling out on the flake was enough) for the stoppers to pull. 3. By the time he hit the cam the forces were enough; due to the pre-stretched rope, and/or high fall factor, and/or the cam placement was not as good as he thought; to blow it. Not intending to be crass, but I find nothing about the above scenario surprising. You're friend is luckey to be alive.
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elvislegs
Sep 28, 2005, 5:18 PM
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an update to a very old thread. i climbed with kevin last sunday. he had not touched rock for a year, as was his promise to his wife. first thing he wanted to do was hop on lead and see how he felt. it was something to watch, as this guy for whom the last time he touched rock was a very near death experience, got back on lead and cruised up a 5.8 sport route as i belayed nervously. he felt good, he looked strong, and he is taking it slow and easy for now. so glad to still have my friend around, and to still have him climbing. props kev. nice lead buddy.
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cracklover
Sep 28, 2005, 6:25 PM
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Good for him! How did he manage to have confidence in his gear after that? GO
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skateman
Sep 28, 2005, 6:55 PM
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Glad to hear your friend is back on his feet again! I think your OP mentioned one of the pieces that pulled was a tri-cam. Those suckers scare me a bit, although I still use them on many a gunks climb. Dan
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oldrnotboldr
Sep 28, 2005, 6:59 PM
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Wow, that's an amazing recovery. It really points out how much influence good physical conditioning has on injuries. And to be mentally/emotionally ready to go back at it,,,,outstanding. Glad to see it! After reading through the old threads a couple of thoughts come up. First, there are always some objective dangers (the flake pulling loose) we cannot control. We can only try and minimize their impact. Secondly,While a recent post talked about helmet protection from side impacts, some protection is better than none. As your friend's case shows. I had a large chunk of ice give me a side impact hard enough to knock me into a whipper once. I'm sure the helmet saved my head a good deal of damage. Sure there are long falls from people not wearing a helmet who had no injuries and some helmeted people who had severe injuries. I would bet, without any hard data, those are the exceptions.
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blonde_loves_bolts
Sep 28, 2005, 7:35 PM
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Congratulations to both of you :) It's really inspirational to see someone come back after an accident of that magnitude. Hope all continues to go well, Andrea
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killclimbz
Sep 28, 2005, 8:11 PM
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Congrats! It's good to hear he's getting back on the rock. May the rest of his climbing career be safe and fun.
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j_ung
Sep 28, 2005, 8:18 PM
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Yay! Happy ending! (:nono: Not that kind of happy ending!)
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takanhase
Sep 29, 2005, 6:51 PM
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Good job life after back surgury is a rough one to come back from.one year and up a 5.8 is incredible. Keep up the good work. :D
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billcoe_
Sep 29, 2005, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: got back on lead and cruised up a 5.8 sport route as i belayed nervously. he felt good, he looked strong, and he is taking it slow and easy for now. so glad to still have my friend around, and to still have him climbing. props kev. nice lead buddy. Wow, that so awesome it gives me the shivers! Good to hear it, thanks for the update elvislegs! I bet your friend has quite the story to share at some point. Probably wasn't easy or fun. Congrats again to Kev and all his friends and family: and again, warm regards: bill
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pinktricam
Oct 7, 2005, 10:29 PM
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Awesome ending, or should I say new beginning?!?
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