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crimpandgo
Oct 5, 2004, 3:09 PM
Post #26 of 29
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Registered: Apr 15, 2004
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In reply to: In reply to: People just have no principles nor morals anymore. I just don't understand how anyone can walk up and take stuff that belongs to other people. Problem is you look at the overcrowded prison populations and its proof that many people just do not follow this policy. Nah, I look at the overcrowded prison populations, and its proof that our government is seriously f--- up. Out of the over 2 million people currently locked up right now, just under a quarter of them are in jail or prison for drugs only offenses. That means they didn't steal anything, they didn't hurt anybody, etc etc. All ten of the commandments remain intact. They just decided they wanted to use drugs personally, or distribute drugs to others who wanted to use them. Now I am not going to say that all drugs use is okay. But there is a lot of evidence that suggests that drugs like marijuana certainly have less of a deleterious effect on a society (whether it is our own or others where the drugs are legalized) than the normalized US drugs like alchocol, tobacco, caffiene, etc. Not to mention the stuff the legal cartels (Pfizer, Novartis, Merck) of the world peddle. Anyway, point is we lock up more people than any other nation in the world, and thats not necessarily a good thing. Ryan
You say just under a quarter of the people are in for drugs, and that these folks are not in for theft related issues? I beg to differ. Most statistics will show that drug and theft activity go hand in hand and are directly related. Call it what you want. There are too many folks out there that don't abide the law nor the common moral principles that govern a civilized society. Many have not found their way to jail yet. Many should have but there is no room for them. Many (actors, sports folks should but will never find their way to jail because we value our entertainment too highly). What you have written above placed the blame on the system. Its not the systems fault, its the people doing the drugs and stealing, etc.'s fault.
After having two cars stolen, I feel I can relate to this thread and others like it. Its very hurtful to have something you have taken much time and pride to produce/purchase taken away just because someone happened upon it and decided they wanted to take it. Blame it on the system if you want, but I don't buy your arguement. people in our society have to be taught right from wrong. They also have to be taught to take responsibility for their actions. This second lesson is the one I think our society is weak on.
Anyway, sorry for jumping off in the weeds here. I will let this thread go back to the original topic :)
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ryanpfleger
Oct 5, 2004, 3:56 PM
Post #27 of 29
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Registered: May 12, 2003
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In reply to: You say just under a quarter of the people are in for drugs, and that these folks are not in for theft related issues? I beg to differ.
No need to beg. You are more than welcome to differ all you want. You would still be wrong :-)
"By the year 2000... 458,13117 drug offenders incarcerated in America's prisons and jails—approximately the size of the entire US prison and jail population of 1980. This means that nearly one in four (23.7%) prisoners in America is incarcerated for a non-violent drug offense."
Thats from The Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice.
http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/poor/pp.html
Part of the problem is that legislation to provide mandatory minimum sentencing for things like auto theft as you described happened to you has not gone through in most states that I know of. Legislators are not willing to hand out a mandatory 4 year imprisonment if someone steals a car, but they are more than willing to provide a 5 year mandatory minimum for possesion of 5 grams of crack. And these laws are not at all equitable, they target the poor and minorities much more severly. For example, to recieve the same mandatory minimum sentence as 5 grams of crack, you would have to have over 500 grams of pure cocaine. So if George Bush were to have been arrested (that would have been some brave cop) with his silver spoon up his nose there is no way he would have gone to the Big House for 5 years, cause he's got the money for upper class drugs.
Sorry you had your cars stolen. Maybe you should educate yourself about the way our Justice system functions and try to do something about it. There are good models out there. Other societies have vastly lower crime rates and still manage vastly lower prison populations (okay... EVERYBODY has a lower prison population, whether in sheer numbers or per capita).
Cheers,
Ryan
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crimpandgo
Oct 5, 2004, 4:05 PM
Post #28 of 29
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Registered: Apr 15, 2004
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Quote:
Maybe you should educate yourself about the way our Justice system functions and try to do something about it. There are good models out there. Other societies have vastly lower crime rates and still manage vastly lower prison populations (okay... EVERYBODY has a lower prison population, whether in sheer numbers or per capita).
Response:
The point in my posts is that I SHOULDN'T have to educate myself. Theft shouldn't happen in the first place. If the proper detterents were in place and people were taught proper principles, the problem would not be as large as it is. I am sure I am being ideal. I am afforded the right, I have been dealt the practical side two times. I am educated on how the system works. I dont believe the system is working correctly and I dont believe that me protecting myself against it is correct answer in the long run. I believe correcting the problem in the system is the proper answer.
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ryanpfleger
Oct 5, 2004, 5:40 PM
Post #29 of 29
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Registered: May 12, 2003
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I think we probably agree on 95% of the issue. I just don't think that overcrowded prisons is proof of anything, other than that we have a lot of prisoners. I don't think you should have to guard yourself against theft either, and I think that the people who stole your cars should be locked up. Sorry to hijack the topic.
Happy climbing!
Ryan
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