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fredbob
Oct 30, 2004, 5:41 AM
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In reply to: There's a decade missing from your history -- the 70s.
Absolutely (and the early 80s).
In reply to: Those free climbing standards were BOLD BOLD BOLD in ways most of us cannot appreciate or in many cases these days even fathom. .... Yes, they climbed hard on nuts in the 70's. The thing to never forget is which two nuts played the most critical role.
This is a gross overgeneralization (and implied hyperbole), and as such is blatently untrue in the context of this discussion. In many cases, nuts provided better and/or more easily placed protection than pitons.
And while cams are great tools and can dramatically improve protection possibilities on certain types of cracks, that is not the same thing as saying that when climbers climbed solely with passive pro they were regularly facing huge runnouts or had to have nerves of steel.
There were thousands of safe climbers in the era between the "age of iron" and the development of the cam.
I thought david.yount's comments were the most reasoned and accurate of any made. To the person who originated this post, if you are to take any opinion to heart, that is the one I would recommend.
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dirtineye
Oct 30, 2004, 5:53 PM
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I love to disagree with ol dingus, but day in and day out his advice is good.
Yount does make a lot of good posts, even if the RC.com PC crowd gets to him once in a while LOL.
I have to wonder if some of the posters in this thread have ever led a climb on all passive pro. Most of the people I know who have are glad to have their cams.
IT's a rainy saturday and I'm grumping arund the net GRRRRR.
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waltereo
Oct 31, 2004, 3:20 PM
Post #53 of 60
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Interessting to read all that diverse comments !
Thanks for taking time to discuss.
I notiuce that when placing passive pro, I take time to test it, pull it , in all directionsto be sure it won't pop out. When placing cam, it is ALMOST "no brainer" , just have to make sure the lobes are not over or under cam.
I don't mean that cam is easy to place.
A+
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esallen
Nov 1, 2004, 1:46 AM
Post #54 of 60
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I'll be honest, the reason I don't place many nuts is because I never feel I've placed it safely unless I seat it real nice and tight, and I hate waiting for hours at the belay while my second is trying to clean those 1 or 2 nuts that just don't want to come back out. I know it sounds lazy, and maybe I shouldn't be so overly concerned about my stoppers popping, but it's so much easier (and funner) for my buddies to clean a pitch full of SLCDs, than making them beat at my chocks all afternoon.
I say do whatever you feel like when it comes to pro as long as you can do it safely.
PS- I'm in love with those smaller tri-cams (pink&red)!
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deerhunter
Nov 1, 2004, 2:15 AM
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Placing gear is quite easy once you have had experience placing and mostly cleaning gear, following solid leading is the best bet for learning to place bomber gear. All placements will hold whippers, when placed correctly, I fell on a 00 tcu and held, patience Danielson
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sbaclimber
Nov 1, 2004, 3:49 AM
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I am glad you said "ALMOST". Dont hesitate to give cams a good yank or two to test the placement. In some places, even if placed properly (all lobes equal, not under/over cammed, etc), cams CAN pop out with a simple tug. I have had it happen, thankfully with a test pull and not a fall. That was one of the few times where a hex was about that only thing that would hold.
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enrcr
Nov 1, 2004, 4:11 AM
Post #57 of 60
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Good idea to use a screamer on those smaller placements especially when the fall factor is high. Not a huge investment and worth the piece of mind.
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alpinejibber
Nov 1, 2004, 4:31 AM
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I started leading trad with two full racks with 3 sets of stoppers 2 1/2 set of cams. However, it did hinder my ability to place stoppers well so that i felt solid on them. I was very hesitant to rely on them until last year i was climbing up Big CC and i could only place a micro nut.
Awesome way to start man.
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cracklover
Nov 1, 2004, 3:52 PM
Post #59 of 60
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In reply to: ... but it's so much easier (and funner) for my buddies to clean a pitch full of SLCDs, than making them beat at my chocks all afternoon.
Nothing wrong with focusing on the fun and being perhaps a little lazy as long as you've got the pro you need. But then you said this:
In reply to: PS- I'm in love with those smaller tri-cams (pink&red)!
That's funny to me, because my partner can clean any nut in a matter of moments (25 years of climbing teaches you plenty of tricks, I guess), but *hates* it when I place tricams! He practically steals them off my rack and back into my bag to keep me from placing them!
GO
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trad_mike
Nov 1, 2004, 5:24 PM
Post #60 of 60
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In reply to: When placing cam, it is ALMOST "no brainer" , just have to make sure the lobes are not over or under cam. I don't mean that cam is easy to place. A+
This is just so not true. You have to make sure that the cam has good contact with the rock. You also need to make sure that the placement will not cause a cam to walk. That is a subtle skill requiring experience. Some placements are geared towards hexes (big constrictions) and some towards cams.
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