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euroford
Nov 29, 2004, 10:13 PM
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has anybody gotten these buets into thier paws yet?
i've been beating around this ice tool deciesion for some time now, and i think i'm going to go for them. they look very convertable, leashed or leashless and likely a good choice for mixed, waterfall and alpine.
so what do you guys think about em? do you think the mixte picks will work well in the ice or should i also pick up some cascades? any good recomendations for some leashes?
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tradklime
Nov 30, 2004, 5:05 PM
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Haven't tried them yet, but they do look like the most promising new tool out there. Good gamble in my opinion (ignoring try before you buy).
I'd say you'd really appreciate the cascade picks for ice, but I get rather excited over lower profile picks.
It's a shame that they haven't set these tools up for the liberty leash. Seems like the obvious choice.
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tim
Nov 30, 2004, 6:38 PM
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They look pretty terrific -- Grivel's picks and swing weights have always felt very refined to me. I am interested to hear what regular (un-sponsored) people have to say about these tools; if I were in the market for tools right now, the Taa-K-Oons would be the first ones I tried out. They seem very versatile for leashed or leashless do-it-all tools.
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akicebum
Nov 30, 2004, 8:42 PM
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These are my next set of tools. I got to mess around with them a couple months ago out on the glacier here. They were a prototype, but I like the feel. They are definitely not your run of the mill tool. My only question is the shaft. I don't like the fact that isn't a molded one piece shaft. But if it loosens you can send them back and just rent, beg borrow and steal until they are replaced. If the shaft is solid then no worries you have a badass tool.
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hema
Nov 30, 2004, 9:36 PM
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When I was hiking & scrambling in Italy this fall I saw these at a local shop. Of cource being the gearhead that I am, I took a couple of swings with these babies at the shop (no ice, so just through the air) and the swing seemed perfect as well as the curve of the handle.
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euroford
Nov 30, 2004, 10:44 PM
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cool!! you guys got me even more psyched about my soon to be tools :)
so any recomendations on those leashes or picks??
does anybody have any side by side or pro/con compairsons of the mixte vs. cascade picks??
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sandbag
Nov 30, 2004, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: cool!! you guys got me even more psyched about my soon to be tools :) so any recomendations on those leashes or picks?? does anybody have any side by side or pro/con compairsons of the mixte vs. cascade picks??
um Tim, these are leashless buddy :wink:
i wielded a pair just this past weekend, they are impressive, and the shaft isnt modular on the final product.
Looks like a great tool, but it just depends on what youll be climbing
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sharpie
Nov 30, 2004, 11:16 PM
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Actually they can go both ways, and that is one very nice feature of these tools. The trigger and pummel can both be removed easily with an allen wrench and leashes attached. And, I think that in this mode they would also make a very nice alpine tool.
The cascade pick is a great ice pick, in my opinion probably the best pick out there. The mixte is just what it says it is, a big fat burly pick designed to be unbreakable for mixed climbing where your jamming it an torquing it in cracks. The problem is it ain't the best on pure ice routes. To start out, get the cascades...
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sharpie
Nov 30, 2004, 11:17 PM
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My suggestion for leashes for these tools would (and the same for any other tool) be a pair of BD androids.
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sandbag
Nov 30, 2004, 11:33 PM
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looks fine just like that
and i think Jack Tackle had some of these at Ouray 2004, and he just left the trigger/hook thing while clipping into the heads with his leashes...he said it was a 'hybrid' deal
looks like a fun tool
hey aaron, wanna split a pair?
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fern
Dec 1, 2004, 12:25 AM
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so they've taken the upper shaft from the Tech Wings and the lower shaft from the Rambos and riveted them together. Sneaky way to 'develop' a new tool while clearing out factory inventory.
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sharpie
Dec 1, 2004, 3:36 AM
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In reply to: hey aaron, wanna split a pair?
Sure! You know me...the local gear bitch...
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sharpie
Dec 1, 2004, 3:41 AM
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BTW- If anyone is interested in a brand new set of grivel top wings (new, never swung) drop me a pm...one has a hammer and the other a tail, both have the cascade picks...the set is yours for $380 (usually $240 each).
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sandbag
Dec 1, 2004, 9:18 AM
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In reply to: BTW- If anyone is interested in a brand new set of grivel top wings (new, never swung) drop me a pm...one has a hammer and the other a tail, both have the cascade picks...the set is yours for $380 (usually $240 each).
you really are a gear biatch
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kungfuclimber
Dec 6, 2004, 4:27 PM
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I've seen them in the shop. Those tools are burly (heavy). Compared them with the BD and Charlet Moser equivalents and there is a big difference in weight. Keep in mind that I climb with some rambo II so I'm used to a tool with mass.
I'd love to try them on the ice but they feel more like a mix tool to me; stronger, heavier, made for torquing.
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mother_sheep
Dec 6, 2004, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: hey aaron, wanna split a pair? Sure! You know me...the local gear b----...
SLUT!!!!
:wink:
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euroford
Dec 6, 2004, 5:04 PM
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I'm getting;
25 oz = Girvel Taa-K-oon
23 oz = Black Diamond Viper
23 oz = CM Quark
22 oz = DMM Xeno
so, yes a touch over the average weight, a problem??
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kungfuclimber
Dec 8, 2004, 4:05 PM
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It would be worth while for someone to compare real weight of these tools. I think some manufacturers report a weight with a light pick but ship the tool with a heavier pick.
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euroford
Dec 8, 2004, 10:14 PM
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i was actually thinking along those lines, and thinking that the listed high weight of the grivel tool might have something to do with the majorly beefy mixte pick, where in reality i'll be fitting them with cascade picks for most of my use.
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tradklime
Dec 9, 2004, 6:30 PM
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I just got a pair in the mail yesterday and they actually feel pretty light, mixte pick and all. If there is a real weight increase over other tools, it is hardly discernilbe to me. Also, climb without the hammer and they will be even lighter.
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simzboardr
Dec 13, 2004, 12:19 AM
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I ran up a pitch of waterfall ice on them today. Freakin sweet. I love the swing, great weight to them and the pointer finger thing is awesome. When you choke up on it the thing behind the pointer finger hook fills your hand nicely. If they weren't so pricey i would probalby get some of these
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sharpie
Dec 13, 2004, 5:16 PM
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I climbed with them on Friday. Great tools. Without the hammers they are so light that I found it difficult to control my swing, I might add the piccolo hammers just to add a little head weight. Weight is definitely not an issue with these tools.
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tradklime
Jan 18, 2005, 3:26 PM
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I thought I would follow up with my impressions of this tool. They are great, just plain great. The swing is very natural and easy to control. To me, for some reason, most leashless tools seem to have a very unnatural swing in ice, the offset handle i suppose. This is not the case with the taa-k-oons. I've tried them with leashes and without, they climb better without leashes in my opinion. I've been resisting the leashless movement for awhile now, I'm sure glad that I hopped on the bandwagon with this tool.
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jimdavis
Jan 20, 2006, 11:03 PM
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Thought I'd bump this one back up to the top...see if there were more people out there with some feedback on this tool.
Thanks,
Jim
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akicebum
Jan 23, 2006, 2:44 AM
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Last weekend we were working a cave problem at the glacier. We had three sets of tools; my Ta-Koons, and two pair of Cobras, all anyone used we the Ta-Koons, the mixed pick is unreal. I lovem and I will take them everywhere.
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boulderinemt
Jan 26, 2006, 12:29 AM
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i really like them, but the mixte pick i have mixed feelings over hehehehe...i just don't like the way it cleans...but tahts my personal experience with it. i tried some petzl nomics, though, and LOVED them...if i only had that kinda skrilla
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tradman
Feb 1, 2006, 4:02 PM
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I've been using the taa-k-oons for about four months on a variety of terrains:
Alpine:
If you're a beginner, don't even think about buying these. They plunge very poorly and the heads are less than comfortable to hold ready for an arrest. If you're more advanced, the tiny spike gives just enough bite for security, but you'll need to be competent with your crampons.
Ice:
The "Mixte" picks are quite thick and result in a lot of dinnerplating and shattering. The cascade picks are much better. The tools are a touch heavy and get tiring if you're not strong; anyone who's used to Quarks or other light tools will find these exhausting on long routes. The picks bite very well and the first two teeth are really aggressive, allowing quite acceptable placements in thin ice. They give plenty of feedback and are reasonably easy to extract.
Mixed:
Fantastic. With mixte picks on, they feel strong and rugged and can take a battering without a problem. The trigger and horn curve towards one another and create a tight hand space which feels secure even without the leashes. The stamped picks allow for noticeably superior torquing and jamming, and I've never felt less than happy with them.
Dry Tooling:
Again, outstanding. Without leashes they give excellent feedback, and the picks feel tight and safe on even on very tiny nicks and scratches, with the triggers feeling very natural and giving great control for very precise placements. The shaft angle brings the horn into good contact on the vertical and they're very easy to mantle on. Torquing is, as previously said, brilliant, and steins, hand swaps and figure-fours feel good. Surprisingly, they're only a very little more tiring leashless than they are leashed, but you will get bruised knuckles as the trigger doesn't protect them the way the BD Fusion or Quark Ergo grip does. Only one bum note drytooling; on really steep terrain (over 50 degrees) the pick configuration cause the weight to shift onto the second tooth, creating a slightly uneasy placement, but this is only noticeable on very hard routes (M8+) and is inconvenient rather than dangerous.
Summary:
Great tools. Lose the leash straight away though. They're highly customizable and perform well to brilliantly in most applications. they're definitely not for beginners, and roof masters might get irritated by them, but anyone in between should seriously consider them.
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mattshove
Feb 28, 2006, 1:15 PM
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Simply Superb as leashless tools. Nice swing and nice weight. Cover the shaft in rubber splicing tape and you are good to go!
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taino
Feb 28, 2006, 2:02 PM
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They swing well, and the trigger is great - but I can't stand the picks (Cascade). They don't clean well at all, IMHO. On a recent weekend of ice, we had a pair of X-15s, the Koons, and a pair of Hummingbirds - one tubular and one standard pick. The best-liked tool was the X-15; the second were the Hummingbirds. NO ONE liked the Koons, because while they swung well and bit hard, they sucked ass to clean. C'est la vie.
T
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capn_morgan
Feb 28, 2006, 2:53 PM
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A little file work on the top edge of the picks will go a long way towards making them easier to clean. Also, if they were consistantly getting buries, try not swinging as hard. Particularly with a tool like that youll find that a wrist flick sort of motion will be much more effective and efficient. Im glad to hear there is still some ice back east someplace.
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pieter
Feb 28, 2006, 3:47 PM
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I have the taakoons and i think they're great. Very good swing easy to climb with. But 2 weeks ago we went on a week long course with a bunch of grivel gear. The tools that impressed me most were the new Xmonsters. They handle a least as good as the taakoons, are lighter and half the price. The wrist is in a more ergonomic position. The swing is nothing like the original monsters that were difficult to use in moderate ice. I would almost sell my taakoons and buy xmonsters but i need something i can use in alpine also.
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taino
Feb 28, 2006, 3:58 PM
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I'm a huge fan of Quarks, and was using the same "flick" technique with the Taa-K-oons; I wasn't putting the axe in the ice more than 1" - barely 2-3 teeth. IMO, they really swing beautifully. The other folks were swinging for the fences, but even a shallow placement resulted in dinner-plating the ice around it just to remove the axe.
Filing the teeth away, or beveling the sides of the teeth?
Oh, there's ice. Thin, mostly, but there's ice. ;)
T
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taino
Mar 1, 2006, 2:14 PM
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That's why I like the Taa-K-oons; they're nearly the same arc as the Quarks. It's the pick that kills it.
And that fucking clipper leash sucks ass. BD Androids, all the way.
T
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brent_e
Mar 1, 2006, 2:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm a huge fan of Quarks, and was using the same "flick" technique with the Taa-K-oons If you lay a quark and a taa-k-oon on top of each other, the curve profiles are almost identical. The taa-k-oon is heavier but the balance seems similar. Of cousre the taa-k-oon doesn't come with that great quark clipper leash, but who uses leashes these days? :wink:
a friend of mine says that leashes are cheating. if you want to be :robert: you have to go leashless!!! 8^)
:robert:
:lol:
Brent
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mattshove
Mar 2, 2006, 2:46 PM
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If you're climbing steeper ice, they come out easy, it's with limited experience one might get these picks stuck, especially on easier 2-3 grades. You place tools at the far back of a bulge and then you can't lever them out because the top of the pick is contacting with the bottom of the next bulge. Those charlet pick are sweet, but they don't take much abuse. They don't wear all that well.
The trick with an advanced tool like this is not to swing so damn hard. They're designed for efficiency, and water ice, not soft alpine ice.
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tradman
Mar 2, 2006, 3:05 PM
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Yeah?
I'll bear that in mind; haven't done a lot of pure water ice this season.
Thanks!
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