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socalbolter
Jan 19, 2005, 3:42 AM
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There are several new routes at the Quarry.
I've also posted new photos of the climbing there. I've allowed comments on all the shots and hope you'll take the time to comment or rate them. Thanks!
Check them out
It's been great to see all the new faces out there. If anyone else is interested in checking the area out, I'd be happy to show folks around and/or make route suggestions for a given grade.
So far, everyone seems to be enjoying the routes and there are now over 150 free climbing pitches to choose from.
Hope to see you all out there soon.
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denmarkbob
Jan 19, 2005, 4:41 AM
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do you guys chip some on those routes, or are they all" natural" ?
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socalbolter
Jan 19, 2005, 4:45 AM
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There are a couple of routes that have some chipped holds, but most of the routes do not have manufactured holds.
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denmarkbob
Jan 19, 2005, 11:55 AM
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the routes do look great ! :shock:
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mysty429
Jan 19, 2005, 2:44 PM
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Any 5.9 or 5.10 routes. Could you also send me a PM of directions out there? Would be happy to meet you out there with a few of my intermediate climbing buddies. Great photos of some great climbers.
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socalbolter
Jan 21, 2005, 1:16 AM
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There are a handful or 9's and 10's (maybe a dozen total), but most routes are 5.11- and harder.
The crag is visible from the 60 freeway, between the 15 and 215 freeways. Exact directions are shown on the area page on this site.
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oldskool
Jan 26, 2005, 4:44 PM
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In reply to: There are a couple of routes that have some chipped holds, but most of the routes do not have manufactured holds.
warning: severe understatement
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ikefromla
Jan 26, 2005, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There are a couple of routes that have some chipped holds, but most of the routes do not have manufactured holds. warning: severe understatement
my times at the quarry i have not really experienced chipped holds.. not that i give a fuck cuz that whole place is a former QUARRY... ie it has been drilled, dynamited, and otherwise. the glue is what i noticed more than anything, but given that fractured nature of that rock, it is necessary for climbing... and well, props to Louie and the guys for putting in that effort.
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socalbolter
Jan 27, 2005, 12:12 AM
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Once again, Joe rises from the depths to post about something of which he knows nothing.
Unless he's referring to the fact that the enitre cliff would not be there except for chipping (the "200-foot drill bits and dynamite" kind), he clearly has no clue.
There are four routes there that are largely manufactured (none established by me) and perhaps 6 others that may have one or two manufactured holds in otherwise blank sections. And this at a crag where 100-foot routes are the norm (with many rising to 150-feet), that offers more than 160 individual routes.
- Louie
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oldskool
Jan 27, 2005, 2:28 AM
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i went to the quarry last week....i found a route that was drilled pocket/jugs that you could set an apple inside of...i have no idea who drilled it, but hey, i saw it w/ my own eyes; giant, drilled jugs up a wall....i did not get onto any routes, just walked the base for about 2 hours looking.
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socalbolter
Jan 27, 2005, 2:36 AM
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Seeing as how my original post spoke of a couple of routes being chipped, and your walking the base for two hours and seeing one such route - I stand by my post.
You might also be interested in knowing that the route you saw was bolted/drilled in 1994 by a climber who hasn't frequented the Quarry since. It's really not relevant in terms of the current development.
If you're going to post, take the time to make your input factual, complete, and if at all possible helpful. Otherwise, why bother?
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oldskool
Feb 9, 2005, 7:01 PM
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In reply to: Once again, Joe rises from the depths to post about something of which he knows nothing. - Louie
that was TOTALLY SWEET where you said i "rise from the depths"....i felt like the Leviathon from Exodus or perhaps Cuthulu of Lovecraftian lore!
3 quick questions louie: of the 160 or so routes [ur committed to route developement, time and money, etc, that is great for sure] at the Quarry,
1) how many have glue on them (not bolts of course), handholds or footholds? and 2) how many routes have chipping/excessive use of a claw hammer/drilling/hold comfortizing? and 3) how many routes are totally natural?
can you try and respond w/ numbers? like: "1) most routes have glued holds 2) several routes have 'created' holds, and a great many were 'comfortized', 3) the entire crag is a giant chip so what do you mean?[kidding]." for instance....
the argument that the Quarry is ok to chip doesnt wash w/ me. the gritstone quarries in England are the same: manmade. nobody feels free to chip those...at least, nobody w/ ethics.
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vincent
Feb 9, 2005, 7:14 PM
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Who gives a flyin fuck if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool....
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 7:25 PM
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In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool.... |
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sactownclimber
Feb 9, 2005, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool....
That may be true but please don't claim to speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general when you very clearly do not, as is evidenced by the fact that you are disagreeing with oldskool.
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oldskool
Feb 9, 2005, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool....
dearest vincent:
i totally agree with you. the mistake some people make is liking where they live, for what it offers. your admonishment is needed. i had started to look on the bright side of the inland empire life; an hour from EVERYTHING such as LA's culture, snowy mountains, Mojave deserts w/ pictographs and ancient trails, etc...i needed a dose of sweet sweet negativity. thank you, so much, vincent dear. let me also give back! here is some negativity for you as well: fuck you. die. i have barely any roped first ascents, but i have hundreds of FA's in boldering areas in SoCal...even at Mt. Rubidoux, a place some thought tapped out; i have been climbing here for 12 years now, and i, for one, love it. i have a vested interest in climbing ethics for my own self...i dont speak for others, although i dare say that others agree w/ me in that chipping is never ok. but yah, vincent, thanx you sexy little girl. good on ya!
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 8:16 PM
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uh oh... here we go again. *braces for impact* :shock:
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mungeclimber
Feb 9, 2005, 8:17 PM
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Snap on that last post.
ok, having seen the quarry in the late 80s with piles of garbage everywhere, and having noticed that the crag languished in development since then, and for the fact that
IT'S A QUARRY
who cares if there is glue there, chipping there, or wholesale manufacturing? Let's get a diamond blade cutter and make a finger crack.
If you really care about a quarry and chipping, stop posting and go talk to the developers. PM me for frick's sake. I'll argue the point if you just want to yammer.
Ok, stop posting drivel and let's see some more pics.
ps- chipping, glueing, etc. outside of a quarry is not ok- mostly for it's slippery slope effect and the precedent effect it sets.
/end rant
:D
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oldskool
Feb 9, 2005, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: Snap on that last post. ok, having seen the quarry in the late 80s with piles of garbage everywhere, and having noticed that the crag languished in development since then, and for the fact that IT'S A QUARRY who cares if there is glue there, chipping there, or wholesale manufacturing? Let's get a diamond blade cutter and make a finger crack. If you really care about a quarry and chipping, stop posting and go talk to the developers. PM me for frick's sake. I'll argue the point if you just want to yammer. Ok, stop posting drivel and let's see some more pics. ps- chipping, glueing, etc. outside of a quarry is not ok- mostly for it's slippery slope effect and the precedent effect it sets. /end rant :D
i was talking to the developer; Louie. And the nice thing about this forum, i get additional input from the likes of Vincent, a great admonisher of people w/ stoic ethics....[i dont live in a cave though; what can he mean?!?]; and others such as yourself. you helped develop the quarry? if so, obviously you are ok w/ chipping there, so what would we talk about? why don't you fly to Brittain and chip Stannage. thats ok since its a quarry, correct? what about the Borson's wall at Mt. Rubidoux? a mini quarry that was dynamited...sometimes referred to as a roadcut...if i saw someone chipping that, needless to say, i would stop them. what is the difference, oh ethics master, oh great decider of all things relative? pray tell!
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fire_eyes
Feb 9, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: ...the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with...
Wow. What in ignorant ass you are...Joshua Tree is part of the Inland Empire, Riverside/San Bernardino Counties. San Bernardino County is the largest county in the entire country and as such, has a few not-so-nice areas, but it also contains areas of great historic value, beauty and cultural interest. Redlands is home of the country's longest running, free outdoor music series at the Redlands Bowl, to name but one tiny example.
If you don't like the quarry, and don't care about chipping and/or gluing the routes, then mind your own business and definitely don't assume to speak for me. I AM a rock climber and a part or rc.com.
Totally offended,
fire_eyes
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fire_eyes
Feb 9, 2005, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool.... seconded.
Wow. What in ignorant ass you are...Joshua Tree is part of the Inland Empire, Riverside/San Bernardino Counties. San Bernardino County is the largest county in the entire country and as such, has a few not-so-nice areas, but it also contains areas of great historic value, beauty and cultural interest. Redlands is home of the countrys longest running, free outdoor music series at the Redlands Bowl, to name but one tiny example.
If you don't like the quarry, and don't care about chipping and/or gluing the routes, then mind your own business and definitely don't assume to speak for me. I AM a rock climber and a part or rc.com.
Totally offended,
fire_eyes
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2005, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool.... seconded. Wow. What in ignorant ass you are...Joshua Tree is part of the Inland Empire, Riverside/San Bernardino Counties. San Bernardino County is the largest county in the entire country and as such, has a few not-so-nice areas, but it also contains areas of great historic value, beauty and cultural interest. Redlands is home of the countrys longest running, free outdoor music series at the Redlands Bowl, to name but one tiny example. If you don't like the quarry, and don't care about chipping and/or gluing the routes, then mind your own business and definitely don't assume to speak for me. I AM a rock climber and a part or rc.com. Totally offended, fire_eyes
I'm only mildly offended. Wait, check that, I'm not offended at all. :lol: Thanks for the routes, Louie!
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fire_eyes
Feb 9, 2005, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool.... seconded.
Wow. What in ignorant ass you are...Joshua Tree is part of the Inland Empire, Riverside/San Bernardino Counties. San Bernardino County is the largest county in the entire country and as such, has a few not-so-nice areas, but it also contains areas of great historic value, beauty and cultural interest. Redlands is home of the countrys longest running, free outdoor music series at the Redlands Bowl, to name but one tiny example.
If you don't like the quarry, and don't care about chipping and/or gluing the routes, then mind your own business and definitely don't assume to speak for me. I AM a rock climber and a part or rc.com.
Totally offended,
fire_eyes
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oldskool
Feb 9, 2005, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: I'm only mildly offended. Wait, check that, I'm a total tool. :lol: Thanks for the routes, Louie!
bro, that is self evident
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2005, 10:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm only mildly offended. Wait, check that, I'm a total tool. :lol: Thanks for the routes, Louie! bro, that is self evident
Hee hee! Look at that! You quoted me, and then changed what I said to make me look foolish! You are so clever, Mr. oldskool! :lol:
Sorry you get so bent out of shape when anonymous internet posters call your home an armpit. A bit of a sensitive point?
PS--glad you were able to 'surface from the depths' or whereever it is you rose from! :P
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 10:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I speak for rockclimbing.com and rock climbers in general: Who gives a flyin f--- if routes at the riverside quarry are chipped, glued, or otherwise manually augmented. the whole crag , city , and inland empire is a giant choss pile with little , if any , asthetic value to begin with. the crag would not exist in the first place if it had not been dug out the ground with 40 ton chipping machines. take your stoic ethics elsewhere oldskool.... seconded. Wow. What in ignorant ass you are...Joshua Tree is part of the Inland Empire, Riverside/San Bernardino Counties. San Bernardino County is the largest county in the entire country and as such, has a few not-so-nice areas, but it also contains areas of great historic value, beauty and cultural interest. Redlands is home of the countrys longest running, free outdoor music series at the Redlands Bowl, to name but one tiny example. If you don't like the quarry, and don't care about chipping and/or gluing the routes, then mind your own business and definitely don't assume to speak for me. I AM a rock climber and a part or rc.com. Totally offended, fire_eyes
"Gee how about I take everything personally and post the same pissed-off rant twice in a row? wouldn't that be great?" jeez chill. nobody attacked you personally.
me to God, in Redlands: "oh please lord let there be a clear day and a blue sky, just this once."
God to me in response: "HA! Yeah fuckin right kid! What do you think I am, a miracle worker?"
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oldskool
Feb 9, 2005, 10:37 PM
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ike: wtf your bagging on redlands? are you fucking retarded?
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 10:55 PM
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derrrr uhhhh i'm a wittle swow.. uummmm wwhat duz wetawded meeen? hehe come on joe, chill out for once man. jesus h christ.
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vincent
Feb 9, 2005, 11:04 PM
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I am RC.com -fire_eyes
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jt512
Feb 10, 2005, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: what about the Borson's wall at Mt. Rubidoux? a mini quarry that was dynamited...sometimes referred to as a roadcut...if i saw someone chipping that, needless to say, i would stop them. what is the difference, oh ethics master, oh great decider of all things relative? pray tell!
The Borson's Wall is an established climbing wall with a long history of climbing located in a public park. It would be unethical to chip there both because it is a public park and because of its climbing history. The Quarry, on the other hand, is on abandoned land, and, except for a hanadful of unremarkable aid routes, was essentially unclimbable due to the abundance of loose rock, until Louie et al invested substantial time and effort into establishing the area as a sport crag. Because of the previous blasting, there was an enormous amount of loose, dangerous rock. In order to make this area usable for recreation, all those loose blocks either had to be pulled off or reinforced with glue. Cleaning and gluing has turned a worthless, abandoned garbage dump into a recreational resource. It is hard to see how this can be a bad thing.
Joe, you have yet to explain why route manufacturing at this quarry is unethical. Just saying it doesn't make it so, nor does arguing that it is unethical in Britain or Rubidoux.
-Jay
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socalbolter
Feb 10, 2005, 1:06 AM
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Joe -
Here ya go:
-- Most routes have seen significant prying off of loose death blocks, flakes, etc. In some people's eyes this is chipping. If so, most routes there are chipped.
-- I define chipping as drilling, carving, sculpting - whatever - a hold where none existed before. By this definition less than 8% of the routes there have chipped holds (whether it's one hold or more), with the most blatant example being a solitary route (established by someone else) in the mid '90s.
-- Most routes (+/- 70 %) there have some glue-reinforced holds. As stated above by JT512, there were so many blasted and loose features that we either needed to pull eveything off and have blank walls or pull off the loose stuff and reinforce the flexing holds.
Slander as much as you want, Joe. The Quarry now offers good climbing and another option for area climbers. Prior to our time and $$$, this was not the case. Sorry if you don't agree.
- Louie
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oldskool
Feb 10, 2005, 2:52 AM
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In reply to: Joe, you have yet to explain why route manufacturing at this quarry is unethical. Just saying it doesn't make it so, nor does arguing that it is unethical in Britain or Rubidoux. -Jay
ethics is never black and white...all climbing scars the rock, even simply placing a cam would have some sort of micro damage on the rock. bolting is more obvious damage; drilling fat holes in the rock, right? that is all debatable. to me, chipping is never acceptable, there is no debate. i have been told there is blatantly chipped holds at the quarry. to me that is vomit. glue is also ridiculous; if you want to manufacture routes, go to a gym, buy this book called the Art of Coursesetting, and have at it. there is my two cents. posit this: when does chipping a quarry become acceptable?
what makes it ok in Rubidoux, and not Britain? there is a small wall that some indians 'quarried' about 600 years ago in Arizona...that wall is now a bouldering wall. chipping/glueing it would be deemed unacceptable by most. what about a wall quarried 200 years ago? still unacceptable probably. 100 years ago? still. 50 years ago? oh, its ok now. go ahead and chip and glue to your hearts content, that wall is a fresh'n. i have never chipped or glued a hold in my life, and i really dont see the need for it.
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oldskool
Feb 10, 2005, 3:01 AM
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In reply to: Joe - ...8% of the routes there have chipped holds ... Slander as much as you want, Joe. The Quarry now offers good climbing and another option for area climbers. Prior to our time and $$$, this was not the case. Sorry if you don't agree. - Louie
ok, how many of the routes did you personally chip holds on?
i dont necessarily not agree...i think that you are perhaps heavy handed when you clean; perhaps you realize you have something of a reputation? i am not just cornering you, either; i ask the same questions of jack marshall. ask him. he admits to what he does.
prior to your time and money? that is very true. i am guessing you put tens of thousands of dollars into route development over the years, if you include gas, etc. There is no doubt you are a prolific developer and a constant one at that. i admire that, and i respect you for that. what distresses me is all the reportage of chipping and excessive glueing that seems to go along w/ your developments. and obviously i dont really matter; the quarry shall go right on ticking. allez.
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jt512
Feb 10, 2005, 3:03 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Joe, you have yet to explain why route manufacturing at this quarry is unethical. Just saying it doesn't make it so, nor does arguing that it is unethical in Britain or Rubidoux. -Jay to me, chipping is never acceptable, there is no debate.
Again, you merely assert that it is never acceptable, without supporting your assertion. Not very convincing.
In reply to: posit this: when does chipping a quarry become acceptable?
I have already stated one instance: when it allows a useless abandoned garbage dump to become a recreational resource.
-Jay
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oldskool
Feb 10, 2005, 3:03 AM
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oh, and jay? since your not taking my side, i am no longer giving you my totally sweet beta. now you shall suffer! ;)
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jt512
Feb 10, 2005, 3:10 AM
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In reply to: oh, and jay? since your not taking my side, i am no longer giving you my totally sweet beta. now you shall suffer! ;)
Well, then there is no point in my continuing my pathetic efforts at "climbing." Anybody know where I can get a good deal on a set of golf clubs?
-Jay
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socalbolter
Feb 10, 2005, 3:33 AM
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Joe -
You don't ever have to worry about "cornering" me. I'll willingly discuss anything with you (or anyone else).
There are five routes in the Quarry that can be looked at as climbing on predominantly chipped holds. Of these, one of them is mine. Other than that, I have manufactured one or two (literally) holds on perhaps an additional 6 or 7 routes.
In the interest of keeping this completely accurate, I went through the entire route list before posting this. I also used the most common definition (as I stated prior in this thread) to decide what holds were chipped. What is common at the Quarry, Joshua Tree, and other local granite or hard rock crags is the pulling off of loose flakes during the intital route cleaning. Sometimes they pull completely away (clean) from the wall and sometimes they snap off at their point of connection, leaving a clean edge. I do not consider this chipping.
Hope that makes things a little clearer for you and for the others reading this thread.
- Louie
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oldskool
Feb 10, 2005, 4:09 AM
Post #38 of 38
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Registered: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 136
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thanks....'preciate that louie
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