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homemade aiders
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nmoroder


Feb 3, 2005, 3:00 PM
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homemade aiders
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What do you think? They are made out of one piece of webbing and the knots are all water knots. Intended for light aid.

Please don't tell me that I'll die without telling me why. I'm looking for responses from real aid climbers.

http://img235.exs.cx/.../404/im0000415xm.jpg

http://img235.exs.cx/...9136/im0000431ho.jpg


sandbag


Feb 3, 2005, 3:06 PM
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Cool.
Looks just like they used too look before people made sewn aiders.
Good job.


wlderdude


Feb 3, 2005, 3:13 PM
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Why would you die from home made aiders?
They are not life-line gear.

They don't have stiffeners to hold the steps open, but that will help them pack down smaller.

I made a set a few years ago with 1" tubular bebbing and 2" sewn on top of the steps to help stiffen them. I had plenty of time, webbing and thread, but no money. Otherwise, I would have bought them. At any rate, I haven't taken up aid climbing yet, so they sit in my "extra gear" bag.


nmoroder


Feb 3, 2005, 3:33 PM
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In reply to:
Why would you die from home made aiders?
They are not life-line gear.

I know, it's just that everytime someone says "homemade," the inevitable response is just that. Thank you both.


epic_ed


Feb 3, 2005, 3:40 PM
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Yep, those are old school tied aiders. Great for some cheap, quick aiders and light enough for alpine I'd guess. But total junk if you plan to do much aiding. There's a reason some of the old school vets started busting out their own gear -- because the existing options , like tied aiders, sucked. Thank God Johnny Yates was tired of the inferior design of several products and he started making his own. Fish, too. There are some things worth making on your own, especially if you feel like you can do a better job than stuff currently on the market. If you do much aiding in those I'll bet you get tired of them quick. But they are a nice way to cheaply break into the aid arena without sinking a boat-load of money into the gear, only to find it really not a game you want to play, anyway.

Ed


nmoroder


Feb 3, 2005, 4:42 PM
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In reply to:
Yep, those are old school tied aiders.

Haha, and I thought I had a good idea...


Partner kimgraves


Feb 3, 2005, 5:08 PM
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Hi,

The "trad"itional way was to use a Frost knot at the top. Check out this page from the 1972 Great Pacific Iron Works catalog:

http://www.climbaz.com/.../graphics/page54.JPG

Thanks to climbaz.com for the image.

Best, Kim


nmoroder


Feb 3, 2005, 5:25 PM
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Wow, thanks.


mesomorf


Feb 3, 2005, 5:26 PM
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What's that wad on the bottom end?

At the top end, use a Frost knot.


justen


Feb 3, 2005, 6:35 PM
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I have a pair of 5 step myself-

Duct tape for stiffener sound good?

If I do stiffen them, how wide a step would people recommend?

FYI- the benefit of the frost know is twofold: it reduces bulk at the top and keeps the last step nice and clean as a single loop.

Justen


timmy_t


Feb 3, 2005, 7:35 PM
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When thinking of step stiffiners, don't think of PVC pipe. You will slip out of them. If you have access to a sewing machine, I would sew them, that would be nice. Also if you are posting to RC.com don't be really drunk. This is my hardest post ever. Had to read several times, so many typos. P.S. if you are doing a lot of aid, (drink a lot) and get some real etriers. P.P.S. those look really good, I'm jealous, too much undiagnosed ADD. Must... stop... post.........


megableem


Feb 3, 2005, 9:35 PM
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.


nmoroder


Feb 3, 2005, 9:50 PM
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I don't need the Frost knot because I started with a folded in half piece of webbing. The ends of the webbing are at the bottom of the aider. The first knot is a water knot, and if I am thinking correctly, it should be cleaner than a Frost knot. Thanks again everyone!


megableem


Feb 3, 2005, 9:56 PM
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.


bilias


Feb 4, 2005, 12:19 AM
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Man, timmy t you are really drunk. :)


vertical_world


Feb 4, 2005, 8:18 AM
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It's even easier to make homemade adjustable aiders!

It takes two knots and a cam-buckle


abalch


Feb 4, 2005, 8:34 AM
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A year or so back, Climbing had the instructions for tying aiders, using the frost knot at the top, in their Tech Tips. It might still be on their website, if anyone is looking for good instructions on doing this.

I tied a pair before I bought some aiders. Even though I didn't use the tied one that much, it still was a fun experience to tie them, and climb on something I had made. I will bust them out some times, just to look oldschool.


golgiapp


Feb 4, 2005, 9:44 AM
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Here ya go!

http://climbing.com/techtips/aid/ttaid216/


gunked


Feb 4, 2005, 3:26 PM
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They look good!

My first pair were quite similar.

The only differences were:

- a beefed-up top knot. I cut a 3 inch piece of webbing and burned the ends open. I had the knot loop running through this piece as I knew it would take alot of abuse. Also wrapped the knot in duct-tape.

- The steps were stiffened with duct-tape, although, I think I could used something a bit better. After a little use, they were pretty flimsy.

Possibly cutting strips out of a plastic milk container and duct tape them to the top of the steps would work better?

Good job,
-Jason :D


bubba


Feb 4, 2005, 4:14 PM
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See also here:

http://climbing.com/techtips/aid/ttaid216/


skinner


Feb 4, 2005, 11:18 PM
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I think making and using your own gear is all part of being a well rounded climber. It's a great thing to know in case you have to whip something up in an emergency. I like making/modifying and improving upon what's already out there for *everyone* to buy.
that said..

    As far as stiffening up the steps, I find milk jug plastic just a little to soft and it tends to have a bit of a memory after being stood on. What I found works far better is nice and wide carton banding. The stuff they use to strap boxes onto pallets for shipping. Not the metal kind, but the plastic kind that has fibers embedded in for strength. Just remember to trim and sand the ends smooth, rounding off the corners. This is not only so it won't damage the webbing, but so you can slide it down the inside of the webbing. When tying a full aider from a single piece of webbing, that can be a long way to slide!

      just my 2 cent worth :wink:


      shutupandclimb


      Feb 4, 2005, 11:56 PM
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      I used clear rubber tube to stiffen mine. You just stuff the webbing through and slide it down, works great. You can get it at any hardware store.


      skinner


      Feb 5, 2005, 12:17 AM
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      umm,, I don't know about round tubing, the idea is to get them as flat as possible to disperse the weight on your arches. Try standing on that tubing for a couple of hours and you'll know why no-one uses it. :lol:

        In reply to:
        the knots are all water knots
        cept for that funky looking one at the bottom


        calangosauro


        Feb 8, 2005, 3:15 PM
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        http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/...ngosauro/estribo.jpg


        jeremy11


        Feb 17, 2005, 12:20 PM
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        I have a few tied aiders with the frost knot. they can be a pain, especially with no stiffener. I've tried using bike brake cable housing duct taped on but comes partway out and gets all messy, but better than nothing. just duct tape is ok, but not good. another problem with tied aiders is the steps twist so they are not always lined up with were they should be.
        has anyone sewn aiders? If I do, I'd like to try with all the steps on the same side like Fish makes them.


        Partner gunksgoer


        Feb 17, 2005, 2:09 PM
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        i made a pair for myself, and only screwed around in them before i got a pair of mistys for christmas. i plan on getting into aid, but as of now i only have a few short pitches under my belt. while playing around with my tied pair, i noticed they were great except for the loops sag. i guess duct tape may fix this, but for anything other then practice i think sewn ones are better. i also prefer the ladder style aiders to the alternating step ones, and i dont know of a way to tie them. but, the aiders u posted look fine...they arnt life and death anyways at the bigginer level, so just about anything will work.


        golsen


        Mar 3, 2005, 10:53 AM
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        Good Job. First place I learned about tieing these were from Rockcraft by RR himself. Great books he wrote, especially about style and ethics.

        Flat webbing is stiffer and I used ones like that on a few walls many years ago.

        In the early 90's I tied my own aiders out of very light 9/16" tubular webbing for a 1 day ascent of the Salathe. I stuck straws from the Yos lodge inside the webbing to help stiffen them, and wrapped duct tape too. I made these becasue on the Nose I had used some extremely light Yates ones they made in those days. The problem with them is that they were so short that every intial step into the damn things was a high step. good if you are going fast, bad for middle aged guys.

        Remember, its not how you look but what you do with what you have.
        good luck.


        skinner


        Mar 3, 2005, 12:00 PM
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        In reply to:
        I have a pair of 5 step myself-
        Duct tape for stiffener sound good?
        If I do stiffen them, how wide a step would people recommend?
        I think duct tape alone is a little too wimpy as a stiffener. What I found works pretty good is the plastic banding that they use to strap stuff down to palettes. If you are tying or sewing your own aiders you can slide the pieces down the inside of the webbing as you make each step (providing you are using tubular of course). If you are just trying to stiffen an existing set, you can tape them to the step with duct tape if you want, I found a roll of really wide friction tape, sort of like sport tape but more durable worked pretty good on a floppy old set of aiders I revived.
        I like the steps about 8" wide, seems to work for me.


        trisgo


        Sep 17, 2011, 11:54 AM
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        Re: [wlderdude] homemade aiders [In reply to]
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        "They don't have stiffeners to hold the steps open, but that will help them pack down smaller."

        I made something similar to this and wrapped the steps with electrical tape. Works ok I guess. I can at least look down for the different shade of color and know where the step is. I suppose you could always buy cheap, flexible, plumbing rubber tubes from the hardware store and cut them down to size.


        marc801


        Sep 17, 2011, 3:52 PM
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        trisgo wrote:
        "They don't have stiffeners to hold the steps open, but that will help them pack down smaller."

        I made something similar to this and wrapped the steps with electrical tape. Works ok I guess. I can at least look down for the different shade of color and know where the step is. I suppose you could always buy cheap, flexible, plumbing rubber tubes from the hardware store and cut them down to size.
        Thank you! We've all been breathlessly awaiting your response for the last 6 and a half years.

        Dude, really, check the date of the post you're replying to first.


        johnwesely


        Sep 17, 2011, 4:00 PM
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        Re: [marc801] homemade aiders [In reply to]
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        marc801 wrote:
        trisgo wrote:
        "They don't have stiffeners to hold the steps open, but that will help them pack down smaller."

        I made something similar to this and wrapped the steps with electrical tape. Works ok I guess. I can at least look down for the different shade of color and know where the step is. I suppose you could always buy cheap, flexible, plumbing rubber tubes from the hardware store and cut them down to size.
        Thank you! We've all been breathlessly awaiting your response for the last 6 and a half years.

        Dude, really, check the date of the post you're replying to first.

        Since the thread is already revived, I tied a pair of ladder aiders with a spreader bar and they are really slick. In terms of ease of use, I would say they are somewhere between commercial etriers and commerical ladders. They are worlds better than homemade etriers.


        trisgo


        Sep 17, 2011, 5:18 PM
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        Re: [marc801] homemade aiders [In reply to]
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        Lol, I try to throw a nugget of knowledge out there every now and then. Relax guy, if im reading it, I imagine others stumble across it as well from time to time.


        potreroed


        Sep 17, 2011, 6:57 PM
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        Re: [nmoroder] homemade aiders [In reply to]
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        Nice job. I used my home-made's for years until they got so beat up my friends took up a collection and bought me some real ones.


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