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philbox
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Jul 3, 2002, 10:16 PM
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This is a pic of a cam which was placed in a bottoming out crack. Cam stem was horizontal. Cam head was pushed right in and had no opportunity to rotate. Aid climber successfulley climbed up on that thing but subsequently took a whipper and zippered a couple of pieces above the cam and then proceeded to tear the stem right out of the head. Now he obviously should not have placed the cam like this.
Ordinariliy I also like to place my cams up against something so they don`t walk but I pretty much always orientate the cam in the anticipated direction of fall. No harm was done to the climbers and they eventually got up the climb. Rock in the pic is granite of the Mt. Buffalo kind in Victoria Oz. Climb from memory was Lord Gumtree which is something like A2+ 400 metres high. Neil Monteith took the pic.
...Phil...
[ This Message was edited by: philbox on 2002-07-03 15:17 ]
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nabisco
Jul 4, 2002, 6:27 AM
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Damn!!!!! thats a disturbing photograph, If it's real...What kind of camming unit was it?? The stem pulling out or braking would have very little to do w/ cam placement. Unless your are using a ridged unit, which does'nt appear to be thecase in this photo.
[ This Message was edited by: nabisco on 2002-07-03 23:32 ]
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dustinap
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Jul 4, 2002, 6:33 AM
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whoa, what kind of cam was that? LOL sucks to be that guy, and that cam..
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philbox
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Jul 4, 2002, 6:36 AM
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Rest assured it is definitely a real pic. It was a HB single stem quad cam.
...Phil...
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dustinap
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Jul 4, 2002, 7:00 AM
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no complaints on the HB single stem, if one hadn't held me off the deck I wouldn't be here right now.
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phil_nev
Jul 4, 2002, 10:47 AM
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Are you the same Phil Box, that did esscension with neil. Loved the story on his webpage, i think theres suposed to be one in rock magazine as well....
I'm not even gona think about the cam????????
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drunkenmonkey
Jul 4, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Interesting pic, makes you think!.
i think the placement had everything to do with the fact that the cam failed, i've a friend @ WildCountry Uk and was discussing this kind of issue with him recently. Apparently if a cam fails it's at the termination point (this is where the stem meets the head) rather than anywhere else. looking at the pic the unit had no opportunity to rotate under load. just think of the force that unit would have been under and certainly not in the direction it was designed for.
On a purely personal level i'm not suprised the cam went pop! its alarming but being aware of your kit's limitations and how its supposed to be used is really important for all climbers what ever they do. a good example of this is the post about the Petzle protraction in the aid forum
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=12131&forum=19&19
here you have guys telling us their kit failed because they weren't using it correctly. what a suprise.
i hate to be a bore but read the INSTRUCTIONS, especially anything from petzl has loads of great information in that thick book of info that comes with it rather than just chucking it in the bin.
sorry rant over, working in a climbing gym makes me very sensitive to this kind of thing.
Laters
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passthepitonspete
Jul 4, 2002, 2:00 PM
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Rad!
Had that placement been made with an Alien it would not have failed since the stem of an Alien is flexible.
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philbox
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Jul 4, 2002, 9:34 PM
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Yeah, gotta love them Aliens. The orange one is my favourite piece of gear, whenever I place that piece a warm glow of satisfaction pervades the world and I think that all is well.
Hey Phil-nev, yeah I`m one and the same that climbed Escension with Neil Monteith. I wrote the story of our ascent that is on the Mt. Warning webpagehttp://www.geocities.com/baffinisland2002/Mtwarning/Mt_Warning_Index.html
...Phil...
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apollodorus
Jul 4, 2002, 10:05 PM
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Ya gotta put the stem in the direction of the fall. That's how those little mullahs work, gursh dang it.
My guess is that placement would have only taken two cams if the stem was vertical. Still, that would be better. A two-cam placement with a rigid stem cam is pretty bomber, especially compared to sticking the stem out horizontally.
Putting the cam in with the stem out like that automatically made it a body-weight piece, and it would naturally rip during a fall. That's why they call it A3/A4.
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philbox
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Jul 4, 2002, 10:54 PM
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Well, it wasn`t a rigid stem, it was a single stem cam, quite different really.
The rigid is just that totally rigid. The single stem is still flexible but not as much as the twin cable stem cams.
...Phil...
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beyond_gravity
Jul 5, 2002, 12:12 AM
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Someone Tell Adam to come in here! He refused to believe me when I said I found a cam that was impossible to remove, with the steam ripped off!
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phil_nev
Jul 5, 2002, 11:26 AM
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Phil box, u rock!
Wish i was on the first asscent with you......
Phil
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philbox
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Jul 5, 2002, 9:16 PM
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Hey thanks for the kind words Phil_Nev. It was a mighty fine time we had on the first ascent too. I was still buzzing a week later. Word has it that there is a three page spread in the latest Rock mag written by Nick Mckinnon who was also on the first ascent team.
...Phil...
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