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elewton
May 15, 2005, 12:06 AM
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Sorry to go starting a thread, but I don't yet know enough about climbing to be confidant offering advice.
I've been working on this for a while, and would appreciate it if anyone could chime in:
I'm trying to create a self contained Ab Seiling kit, completely apart from my normal gear. Obviously, it has to be light and reliable.
10 mm kermantle seems like the right choice, and it is naturally going to be single line.
It would be nice if I only had to use 1 carabiner and one friction device, and if it could be put together simply.
I currently use 2 carabiners and an ATC. This works, but I do have to give it a good tug to prevent myself from descending. If I were carrying a lot of weight or someone else, this might be trickier.
I would really appreciate any input, as I am sure you guys have a simple answer up your sleeves.
P.S. Does anyone know the mass per metre of 10 mm kernmantle? I think it's 75g, but I heard 150g.
Thanks!
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gunkiemike
May 15, 2005, 1:27 AM
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The mass per metre is a spec prominently listed for every climbing rope. 10 mm should be 65-70 g/m. And IMO 10 mm is not very light for rappelling only. You can go to 8.0-8.6 mm if you are careful around sharp edges.
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alpnclmbr1
May 15, 2005, 1:42 AM
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Pretty poor judgment for you to choose to share that bit of info with the person that wrote the OP. A clueless newb with pretty poor judgement.
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gunkiemike
May 15, 2005, 2:03 AM
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You're right. I should have told him the true mass is 150 g/m. Keep them newbs in the dark where they belong.
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dklco
May 15, 2005, 2:28 AM
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hey guys lighten up you were newbs at one time.....
but they do have a point definitly take some kind of class or find a person to show you how to rappell and start out by backing up your reppell or doing a firemans reppell with a partner....dont just try to do it...
how much do you wiegh because one locking HMS carabiner and an ATC is all i use to rappell and it works just fine....and if your going for exclusivly rappelling a figure 8 has a much smoother action.
and i really cant think of a rope with a mass per metre of 150g....so go with the 75g but it veries from rope to rope
what ever you do though dont just try to go out and repell take a class (thats how i leared) or find some one experienced to show you how and back it up with a prusik! be smart and be safe....
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slobmonster
May 15, 2005, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: I currently use 2 carabiners and an ATC. This works, but I do have to give it a good tug to prevent myself from descending. If I were carrying a lot of weight or someone else, this might be trickier.
It seems that you want to be able to change the friction that your descender provides, perhaps on the fly. There are all sorts of funky figure-8s on the market, "mechanical" descenders, and the like, that might provide you with this capability.
Heed the back-up advice. Adding significant mass to your system will make it very, very hard for you to control your rappel.
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elewton
May 15, 2005, 9:57 AM
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Thanks everyone. My mass is 75Kg. I also tend to carry a lot of gear, which is probably what's making it hard.
I have joined a climbing club in my college, I'm not stupid enough to just think I can just hook up a rope and climb like a pro, but their insurance policy is VERY restrictive, and the instructors were wary of giving me advice about how to do something that wasn't specifically on the syllabus.
There is only one shop that sells climbing rope in my town, and they don't print the mass per metre on their rope, and the employees don't know.
Thanks again everyone. slobmonster was right; I'm wondering whether there is any trickery so that one can significant;y change the friction in the field.
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cyanamid
May 15, 2005, 3:35 PM
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In reply to: The mass per metre is a spec prominently listed for every climbing rope. 10 mm should be 65-70 g/m. And IMO 10 mm is not very light for rappelling only. You can go to 8.0-8.6 mm if you are careful around sharp edges. In reply to: Pretty poor judgment for you to choose to share that bit of info with the person that wrote the OP. A clueless newb with pretty poor judgement. In reply to: You're right. I should have told him the true mass is 150 g/m. Keep them newbs in the dark where they belong. |
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godskid5
May 15, 2005, 4:36 PM
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you can use an atc xp to increase your rope friction.
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rck_iceclimber9
May 15, 2005, 4:42 PM
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i use 7 mm..... (one of twin ropes)
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avalon420
May 19, 2005, 2:54 AM
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i once rapped out of a tree with 5.5mm spectra and a munter hitch. Made it down that 10 feet safe (luckily) but will never try it again. BUT new england ropes (Maxim) does or at least did make a rap kit with a special device, and about 80 feet of spectra as a line(yes that is where i got the idea) fur use by fire fighters and other emergency personel.
But yeah, like other people have said PROPER TRAINING
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paulraphael
May 19, 2005, 9:02 PM
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i just noticed the part where you said "10mm kernmantle, and is naturally going to be a single line ..."
not sure why it's natural to rap a single line, but it's definitely why you're not getting a lot of friction. to rap a single line comfortably, especially if you're carrying a lot of gear and ... um ... "someone else", you're going to need a lot more friction that what an atc gives you.
do i even want to know what you're doing??
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jeepinchrisc
May 29, 2005, 6:46 PM
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Double-line rap on a rescue 8. Single line rapping with an 8 is fast (I Australian Rap with a single line) but a double line will allow you more friction and a way to positively brake and lock off should the need arise. I think that Petzel makes an "8" device called the "Pirana" mabye that is suppossed to be pretty cool for rapping and descending.
Chris
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q
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May 30, 2005, 4:32 AM
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hopefully your instructor is allowed to tell you to knot the end of your rope. If not, get a new instructor.
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altoids1
Jun 1, 2005, 2:49 AM
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In reply to: It would be nice if I only had to use 1 carabiner and one friction device, and if it could be put together simply
If i were you and I wanted to be able to take heavy also light loads on a single line I would use the micro rack. http://www.bmsrescue.com/micrack.html There are a couple orientations that can be used to increase friction and/or stop descent which depends on weight. The micro is not as light as an ATC, but its smoother and if your load isnt too heave it should be able to accomodate.
There are also regular racks made by petzl that can accomodate much heavier loads, but they weigh more. Just check their specs. But make sure that you know what you are doing before you try anything on your own.
It also seems that your question is a little vaguely posed and from that its a bit difficult to answer. Maybe if you gave a little more specific info we can better give advice. Also if you are want to learn more it never hurts to pick up a book on the subject. Either a rock climbing book or something dealing more with rappelling and vertical rope work. "On Rope" comes to mind for that one.
-Trevor
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nich_popsicle
Jun 1, 2005, 3:47 AM
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Yeah, like Paul, I too wonder what exactly you are going to be doing?? Unless you are rapping (sorry, abseiling, you must be from across the pond - or from down under? - and you also keep dropping the metric stuff, haha. Not being sarcastic, I think it's fun to hear from people all over the world, the internet is a wonderful tool :D) off some sort of premade structure and are planning on leaving the rope up, I recommend a double rope rappel, so you can get the rope down easily when you are done... At any rate, rapelling in and of itself isn't inherently difficult, it's getting the anchor set up safely, right? At least, I don't personally find it too difficult to do... But whatever, find some place you can safely set up a good anchor, and rap until you could do it in your sleep :D!
P.S. Avalon, did you seriously set up a rap system to get out of a 10 foot tree :? ? Hahaha, I personally would have just jumped, unless there were some sort of sharpened death spears pointing up out of the ground :lol:. But maybe you are old or something, and didn't want to risk breaking a hip, haha... No real offense intended, just amused that you rapped out of a 10 foot tree, how did you get up there in the first place?? At any rate, way to be resourceful, that munter is a great thing to know, that's for sure :D .
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dr_fil_good
Jun 3, 2005, 5:53 AM
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yeah I'm one of those caving geeks as mentioned by some guy ... and yeah, I work on the metric system too ... so I'm probably goign to get lynched here but here's my advise:
Buy something between 10 - 12mm rope if it's purely for abseiling- you can always speed up by adjusting your rig.
Never use or let anyone use their fig of eight on it - it just twists the rope and after a while you'll notice because you go to throw your rope off the cliff / into the cave / into the structure and you literally watch it coil in on itself and you curse fig of eights!!! USE ONLY STRAIGHT LINE DESCENDERS!!!
If you really want to be able to adjust speed - going fast or slow buy a raprack or even better a goldtail (better than a whaletail 'cause you can use double ropes on it and only costs a few extra dollars).
You will need a solid understanding of anchors ... and how to pass a big jagged ledge by making your abseil into a multi pitch - actually it's really technical. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND buying an SRT (single rope techniques) book and easing yourself into it. (in order) Abseil out of your tree in your backyard, abseil down the sloped edge of a local quarry (being sure to wear a helmet and back up with a prussic!!!), abseil off a small (20 - 50m) dam wall, then ease ease ease your way into the big ones ... don't start by abseiling off of a big f-off cliff or into a big f-off cave, you may not live to regret it.
other than that - basic rig = 70m 10-12mm static (although I recommend if you are loaded getting 500m and splitting it into 50m, 150m, and 300m lengths), raprack, five or so biners, TWO sets of prussic loops per person, a handful of slings, couple of nuts + hexes + cams, and most importantly rope protectors (squares of carpet for el cheapos, squares of canvass and jerry protectors if you have some $$$) on average you may need up to 3 protectors per 50m on a jagged wall (most of which will be at the start of the pitch)
Abseiling is bloody good fun, especially when you do it with a purpose (i.e. you normally couldn't access what you are abseiling down to) - like The Funnel) :D
Bon voyage
The Good Doc
P.S. Abseiling is descending on a rope - rapping is descending on a rope and retreiving it - rappel = french for 'to retreive'
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