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spank_spank
Jul 15, 2002, 1:03 PM
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Today - I am on a 3 month plan to decrease my bodyfat and increase muscle mass. Any opinions on this. Here is my plan:
20-30 minutes of cardio 4x per week
20-25 minutes of intense weight lifting per week.
3x of climbing per week (first 6-8 weeks of focusing on endurance training - increase heart wieght to burn body fat)
Daily intake:
Minimum of 120 grams of protein per day.
No carbs after 3 p.m.
Multi-vitamin
Here is my questions what supplements can I take to help increase muscle mass and decrease body fat. I am not a big guy 5'11 - 175lbs. My goal is to drop 10-15 lbs and 2-3 inches in my waist and of course increase muscle. I have bought some L-Glutamine (it is suppose to help in retaining lean muscle). Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
[ This Message was edited by: spank_spank on 2002-07-15 06:04 ]
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jammer
Jul 15, 2002, 1:47 PM
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You mentioned 20-25 minutes of intense weight lifting per week. The only suggestion I would have is that you should use low weight with high reps. This will tone your body without adding any mussel mass.
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leon0tron
Jul 15, 2002, 2:05 PM
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Check out planetfear.com
There are lots of articles on training
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seppee
Jul 15, 2002, 3:11 PM
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I've been getting into health and nutrition lately my self. On top of a good workout routine you'll want to do is make sure you take in plenty of protein (tuna is a very good source, natural and your body will absorb most of what you put in. If you don’t like tuna try getting Whey Protein powder, it a complete protein and comes in Vanilla or Chocolate). You don't want to workout for hours and not feed your body with the right fuel to repair the muscles.
Another thing is to drink plenty of water (I know... everyone say this) when you drink water your not really getting any nutritional value at all (no carbs, sugars, fats.. etc), when you drink coffee, or juice, basically anything else your getting calories, when you cut this out, you can drop your daily calorie intake by a few hundred a day (depending on how much you drink), which will cause you to lose weight just by this alone.
One more thing is go get a good multi vitamin, everyone is guilty of not eating properly… with the multivitamins you will ensure that your getting at least most of what you need and all it take is taking one pill a day.
Hope this helps.
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spank_spank
Jul 15, 2002, 3:31 PM
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Thanks for the info. Any supplements though? Along with L-Glutamine, I am thinking about Creatine to build muscle mass. Thermogenics a good idea? Thinking about Pyruvate to for burning carbs.
Also I am vegetarian (lacto-ovo), it can be a little more difficult to get protein intake. But so far here is my breakdown.
2x protein shakes per day with soy milk (80 grams of protein)
1 protein bar day (24-30 grams per day)
1 bagel - 11 grams per day.
1 veggie burger with 2 slices of non-fat cheese - about 25 grams per day
That's 145 grams per day.
also I will be taking in 256 oz of water per day along with 2 peices of fruit.
[ This Message was edited by: spank_spank on 2002-07-15 08:35 ]
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orngave
Jul 15, 2002, 3:44 PM
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Creatine is good stuff, but it will make you retain some water, mostly in the muscles themselves. Which is good for them, but can dehydrate you, just make sure you drink plenty of water.
Also I have hear Yohimbe(forgive if I spell it wrong) is good stuff, it is the herbal equivalent to adro(the stuff big mac takes) and doesn't damage the body. But watch out for your tendons there.
Gabe
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wildtrail
Jul 15, 2002, 3:54 PM
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Okay, no matter what anyone says, see a doctor as I did.
I have been weight lifting for years and supplements are silly (I'll say that because what I had in mind was foolish).
Even protein supplements are MEDICALLY proven to NOT give much benefit. It is the same as those that think "diet" pills will help. The fact about diet pills is this: They may account for around 3 to 4 percent of the total or your actual weight loss. Do the math. At a 100 pounds lost, that only equals 3 to 4 pounds.
Protein supplements are the same. 30-40 minutes a week on cardio will be excellent for weight loss, as it is aerobic. Not to mention, raise your energy levels, your metablolism, and get you in shape.
I think handjammer misunderstood your question, but is correct. Low weight, high reps is for endurance and toning, but you want to put on muscle mass.
For mass, reverse that. You want higher weight and lower reps. It all depends on what you are looking for. Powerlifting is the fastest way to put on muscle mass (accompanied by a normal weightlifting routine). However, I would not suggest you doing this as in my life of powerlifting I have slipped four disks out of place, pulled umpteen amounts of muscle, hurt both knees, etc. It can reap havoc on your body. Which, is why I am a pretty big guy with numerous joint problems. I should be stronger than I am, but becaue of these joint problems, I would say I lost about 5-10 percent of my overall strength because of the injuries.
Okay. My background in brief. I have been weight lifting since I was 16 (12 years). Powerlifted in high school for two years. I was very serious about it, but took a few years off for travel, etc (about four years). I'm big, but not huge. Being huge was never my goal. I'm average big, so get the thought of a guy with 25 inch biceps out of your head. They are more like 20. I'm 5'10"ish and currently 245, but lean I am around 230. So, as I said, big but not huge.
Personally, I wouldn't listen to anybody on here. Including me. I can give you some guidelines, but you should go to a gym and talk with a qualified, certified trainer to develope a program that is right for you.
Hope some of my blabbering helped!
Steve
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phillycheese
Jul 15, 2002, 4:06 PM
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supplements are good if you use them properly. creatine is great if you are lifting heavy but if not, it will just temporarily add water to muscles and will go away as soon as you stop using it. Androstien is great stuff for the same thing. heavy lifting. (it's a testosterone booster) try something like hydroxy-cut for helping you speed up your metabolic rate and lower your body fat. it also gives you a boost of energy but has been known to be dangerous with certain people and in certain conditions when used wrong. whatever you decide to do, don't take all your advise off the internet (that includes mine). read up on the different supplements before using any of them. good luck!
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wildtrail
Jul 15, 2002, 4:27 PM
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Phillycheese has the right idea, and a name after a great sandwhich!
However, again, supplements like Hydroxy-Cut have the potential of doing more harm than good. Also, using these products will yield the same results as diet pills. A very small percentage of your actual result. They really aren't worth your time and money. Also, no pill can "boost" metabolism. Metabolism improvements are made from proper diet and exercise and no pill, yet, had reproduce that. They can make you "feel" like it, but that is just a chemical rush.
Like Phillycheese said. Don't get your advice off the internet. Talk to a Dietician for a proper diet and the facts on supplements and pills and go to a trainer for a proper program design to achieve the results you are looking for.
Steve
Hey! Philly? Why the name when you don't live in Philadelphia?
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jt512
Jul 15, 2002, 5:35 PM
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There is no reason to limit carbs after 3 pm. You've been taken in by some fad diet. If you're an athlete, carbs are your most important macronutrient. Furthermore, while you are losing weight, carbs are important because they have a protein sparing effect; that is, they help counteract the tendency to lose muscle while dieting.
120 g a day of protein is about right while you are dieting. You can get that easily, even on a vegan diet. Soy products (including supplements) are the answer.
So, since you need protein and carbs, your diet has to focus on reducing fat intake.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-07-15 10:35 ]
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pamola
Jul 15, 2002, 5:58 PM
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Hydroxy-Cut is bad!!
It has been known to cause heart attacks in young athletes!!
Like wildtrail and Phillycheese said. I would suggest you talk to a dietician as well.. Better do it the right way or all that time and money won't matter.
Good luck!!
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lakevetsrule1
Jul 15, 2002, 6:13 PM
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I agree. Creatine is great if you are going to be lifting weights 4-5 days a week. It is designed to increase strength and power in short explosive movements(sprinting, tackling, swinging a bat, jumping, etc). The only climbing benefit taking creatine would have is in a dynamic move. I took creatine for a year and I put on about 15 pounds. I was bigger, but my climbing sucked. After losing all of the excess water weight my climbing ability skyrocketed. From my experience, I wouldn't take creatine to help my climbing. It's benefits to the sport are minimal and it adds unwanted water weight. Plus, studies on its side effects have only begun in the last ten years, who knows if it has any long term side effects we dont know about yet.
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likethegoddess
Jul 15, 2002, 6:23 PM
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Whoa, spank, you're getting almost all your protein from manufactured sources? I'm mean I've been a vegetarian and I know that's and extra challenge. But hey, rice and beans?! Eggs?! The best way to get any nutrients is from unprocessed natural sources. Find an old copy of "Diet for a Small Planet". Lots of good info on protein combining and recipes to go along with it.
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jt512
Jul 15, 2002, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
The best way to get any nutrients is from unprocessed natural sources.
Generally, I agree, but isolated soy protein is actually good for you. A lot of soy phytochemicals with anti-cancer properties remain in the protein supplements.
Quote:
Find an old copy of "Diet for a Small Planet". Lots of good info on protein combining and recipes to go along with it.
The recipes might be good, but the protein combining information is not. There is no reason to combine proteins in any particular way. The author never had any scientific basis for her protein combining suggestions, and, to her credit, wrote a retraction in the second edition of her book.
-Jay
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lilred
Jul 15, 2002, 7:31 PM
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Hey ya'll...I use to work for EAS in Golden...So I know a bit about supps...I use to take a BUNCH (about 40 pill, bars and shakes combined a day)...Personally, stay AWAY from thermogenics...creatine is okay, but why do you want muscle mass as a climber? It will weigh you down...
Glucosamine is good (check out joint mobility by eas on their website...it has other supps for joints and cartilage as well) for climbers...as far as body fat reduction, put in fewer calories that you expend in a day...I agree that you should have carbs in the evening, as your body uses them while you are sleeping to repair and rebuild your muscle, just take in low-glycemic carbs...the best thing to eat is an apple and cottage cheese about a half an hour away from bedtime...
Cytovol is good for repairing and rebuilding
Aeromax is good for recovery
Antioxidents should be a staple in every
atheletes skeem of things...
HMB is good for body fat loss while putting on a bit of muscle (look into Betagen)
and then after all that, you have no money left...money you could have put toward the Access Fund or GEAR!!!
I'm back on the natural track...no supps, just plain ol' honest to goodness food from organic souces...that, and high intensity cardio plus pilates keep the pounds off for me...
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knotrocket
Jul 15, 2002, 8:48 PM
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Take all that crap (supplements) and all you'll have is expensive piss.
The foods you eat are some of the most powerful "drugs" you can take. I sound like a salesman, but The Zone is badass. At least it was for ME. You don't even have to buy into everything, but the principle behind it: 40%-30%-30% Carbs-Proteins-Fats(yummm) is simple. How can you beat a diet where a beer and cheese is good for ya?
And all creatine did for me was puff me up (water retention) and give me diarrhea like you've never seen...
[ This Message was edited by: knotrocket on 2002-07-15 13:49 ]
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pushfurther
Jul 16, 2002, 4:43 AM
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to the person who said read an old version of "diet for a small world", i was digging through the cupboards a few days ago and found it..i've yet to read much of it or cook any recipes, but i will sometime this week.
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orngave
Jul 16, 2002, 7:26 PM
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If you want a good book that will teach you how to loose weight, try Body for Life. My friend, who is the captain of our team, swears by it. And he is not only jacked, but ripped, and an awesomely strong climber. I have seen pictures of him when he was in high shcool, and he was kind of chunky.
As for creatine, what it did for me, was allow me to lift longer. It didn't add muscle mass, it made your muscles appear bigger because they were retaining water, which is a key ingredient to fueling your muscles. So you can get bigger, or stronger using creatine. And the only side effect that I know of is retaining water, and it has eaten away at the lining of some long time users. So follow the phazes that the bottle recomends, and you will be fine.
Glucosamine is good stuff for the joints. I think every climber should take it.
Gabe
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wildabeast
Jul 19, 2002, 5:27 AM
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Want to increase muscle mass eh? I think the only thing they've really proven to increase muscle mass in a noticeable way is Steroids. I ommit creatine because it doesn't really work with everyone, and they're starting to think it's just as dangerous as steroids in the long term. I'm not tellin you to do roids, just tellin you what works. I have a friend who did them and he's a dedicated climber amongst other things, and quit using them about 6 months ago, but is even now starting to see some of the effects such as hair loss. Steroids are the true embodyment of our pursuit of instant gratification because in about 3-6 months you can start growing some rediculously huge muscles without much work.
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spank_spank
Jul 19, 2002, 12:25 PM
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I don't think I would ever do steroids. I'm afraid my dingus will shrivel up. I need all I can down there . I really don't want to get huge muscles, I just want to build a litte bit more muscle mass while decreasing my body fat. I guess the best way to do that is do my workout and ESPECIALLY watch my diet.
Why do fat foods taste so good
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msecoda
Jul 19, 2002, 12:49 PM
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If the perfect body came in a pill everyone would have it.
I would agree with taking a good multi vitamin but save your money when it comes to the un-healthy supplements. Hydroxycut has effedrine which makes people tachacardic (speeds up your heart rate) this can and has send people into an arythmia which can result in a myocardial infarction (heart attack) A lot of younger people can have a mild heart attack and pass it off as indigestion. They only find out later that scar tissue has built up in your heart.
It is not uncommon for drug users who OD to be autopsy'd and the doctors learn that he/she had heart damage.
Moral; It is not worth it, look at phen phen. The FDA approved this drug and a lot of people are worse off for it.
Sorry to be so morbid about it but I have gone through the same thing. looking for a quick fix. NEWS FLASH --- There is none ---
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leadingedge
Jul 19, 2002, 5:09 PM
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Muscle mass supplements.
Creatine - HMB - Methoxy Max - Steroids
Hope this helps
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acrophobic
Jul 19, 2002, 5:17 PM
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Yeh Glucosamine Sulfate is really good for joint pain and tendonitis and such... I have bad knees and they help.. but you probably have to take the pills for about a month before seeing good results.
Creatine on it's own won't bulk you up.. it just helps your muscles recover faster with increased protein... it's the types of training you do that creates the bulk... Do lower weight with more reps and stretch out to avoid bulking up. You can build mass, or you can build strength... a person with half the bulk can be just as strong.
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