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sanven4
Jan 6, 2006, 7:26 PM
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Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Posts: 20
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Good morning,
Perhaps I am jumping the gun here, but given all the uncertainty surrounding CCH and their Alien line of cams, I have been considering going with some Zeros instead of Aliens. I currently have 3 of the small aliens (black, green, and blue all purchased from REI about 5 months ago) and to be quite honest I am a little sketched out about using them now.
Any of you own Zeros? Do you recommend them as replacements for their Alien sized counterparts?
*edit - I realize this comparison has been covered before, but I wanted to re-open the discussion in light of the alleged problems with CCH/Aliens.
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hosh
Jan 6, 2006, 7:45 PM
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Registered: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 1662
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I've got both a full set of aliens and a few zeros. one of my climbing partners (crazyakclimber) has a full set of zeros. I personally like the aliens better. haven't had any problems on them yet either and I've taken all my falls on aliens (except one on a #2 camalot). I'd say that if you're not comfortable with aliens, then get TCU's or zeros. but Aliens are sweet and I wouldn't sweat it.
hosh.
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couloir
Jan 6, 2006, 8:02 PM
Post #3 of 9
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Registered: Apr 4, 2001
Posts: 304
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I wouldn't worry too much about the issues with the aliens. It seems very isolated and that many people are freaking out for no reason. I among thousands of others use aliens regularly and they work great. I have a few zeros as well and they perform equally. But that's not to say there's no safety issues with them either. Several tests performed at the BD plant(by BD and Metolius) on forces weighting cams has shown that cams with doubled up slings(zeros)can actually put enough force that if the double sling is sitting on top of itself(use imagination here), it can actually melt and the entire sling breaks. I talked with a met. rep who said that in the BD plant where they do the testing this has happened several times. The fact is there's always a chance that a piece will fail, but there's always a better chance that it's yourself that caused the failure, not the manufacturer.
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euroford
Jan 6, 2006, 8:28 PM
Post #4 of 9
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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nothing could replace aliens for many a small cam needing situation, and i'll definiftly continue using the ones my partner brings to our combined rack.
but i'll also add, that i seriously DIG zero's, we use them more often for free climbing than we do the aliens. the red and blue have a perminant spot on my free climbing rack.
its kind of like the same way i see DMM's and Camalots for the other sizes. they are both supereamly awsome cams, but even more so in the way they compliment each other.
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mattm
Jan 7, 2006, 12:23 AM
Post #5 of 9
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Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 640
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Follow up question - I liked the zeros and their overall design but the 1st generation never replaced my aliens because of two issues.
Trigger bar was too damn small
stem was too short leading to trigger buried in cracks and curses and bloodied knuckles.
Looking at j_youngs report from OR - WC has made these fixes which I think is SWEET! Anyone know when / where they'll be available?
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cracklover
Jan 7, 2006, 1:00 AM
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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
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Don't get me wrong, I'm as concerned as the next guy about the safety issues that have been raise in re. to Aliens. Nevertheless, I find them indispensable.
I've owned both and used both CCH Aliens and WC Zeros. Managed to sell all my Zeros. Didn't like them at all. Here's why:
1 - Compared with Aliens, their range was much smaller. On a very small cam, this is the kiss of death.
2 - Their action was very stiff compared with Aliens. Again, when you're gripped and pumped, having to futz with that damn trigger, and fighting to cam down the thing - well it just didn't work for me.
3 - IIRC, the head was wider on them than the Aliens. Wide head = bad.
But just #1 settled it for me. Let me give you just two scenarios where Alien = functional, and Zero = no dice:
A - Small horizontal crack like you often find at the Gunks that expands on the inside before it bottoms out. With the small range of the Zero cam, it won't contract enough to get into the crack, unless you use one that's too small for the placement, in which case you're relying on the cam stops alone. Bad.
B - Vertical irregular crack, for example a pod like you'd get from a pin scar. Let's say the bottom of the pod is smaller. Small range of zero cam means that the bottom of the cam won't fit in at all, unless you shift it up the crack, in which case the top of the cam is totally umbrellad out, and makes no contact with the rock. Of course the best solution is a an offset alien, but often if it's not flaring *that* much, with the wide range of standard aliens, both the lower and the upper cams will make good contact.
But that's just my experience. YMMV,
GO
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jred
Jan 7, 2006, 1:38 AM
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Registered: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 750
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I too have both Aliens and Zeros. I love my zeros, I have never had any problem with range, in fact they seem very close to identical to Aliens. I do prefer Aliens though they seem a little snappier.
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dudemanbu
Jan 7, 2006, 6:16 AM
Post #8 of 9
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Registered: Jun 3, 2005
Posts: 941
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Also have zeros and have found their range nearly identical to the aliens.
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locker
Jan 7, 2006, 6:57 AM
Post #9 of 9
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Registered: Jun 14, 2004
Posts: 130
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I own both Aliens and Zeros as well... Go with the Aliens and like others have written, do not worry about all the crud being said... Not to say that there have not been some problems.... BUt I have used Aliens for many years (since they came out) and have never, personally had any problems with any of them. I bought the new ones recently and they too are fine... Zeors are a bit funky and not at all smooth working... and they bend a wee bit too much IMO. So must so that at times they can be harder to remove... and if your second is not experienced with them? Be careful or you might be saying Goodbye to instead of Hello to your little friend... But both when placed correctly, do the job and that is what counts...
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