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pinbasher
Mar 31, 2006, 7:00 AM
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Do any of you use a heart rate moniter when training for alpine climbing or mounteneering
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roshiaitareya
Mar 31, 2006, 7:20 AM
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Why would you? Just get in good shape and hope it's good enough.
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builttospill
Mar 31, 2006, 8:49 AM
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I used a heart rate monitor for a long time when training for track. It served me well. I no longer use when although I run a lot to stay in shape for climbing. I think a lot of people buy HRM's and don't really know how to use them. You really need to have a specific and strict plan to follow. If you're interested in learning how to use one for running, check out Daniels Running Formula by Jack Daniels. It's the best training book out there for runners, IMHO. A lot of that stuff applies to the mountains, if you're looking to improve cardiovascular fitness and general speed in the mountains.
Naturally a lot of stuff has to be tweaked and you'd want to add in upper body strength stuff to fit your particular goals, but for straight-up cardio/aerobic conditioning, an HRM and that book are a good place to start. What exercise do you currently do (run, bike, just climb, etc?)?
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pinbasher
Mar 31, 2006, 3:49 PM
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Stairs with a pack, bike ,climb ,weights and running on tread mill.I try to get in the alpine every week but the snow around here is like oatmeal and deep right now as soon as it settles i will be going to the alpine at least twice a week.
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guanoboy
Mar 31, 2006, 7:31 PM
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yes, i use one. Generally what you want to keep track of is how quickly to can get your heart rate to slow down after an effort - this is a good sign of aerobic fitness.
The hardest aerobic training i've ever done is running laps on 30sec to 1.5min long hills with ski poles. Doing this is the only way I ever got my heart rate to 220bpm. 3 sets of three hills and you will be pretty toasted. For each set of three run to the top at top speed, jog/walk down and immediately start back up from the bottom. After three reps rest at the bottom until your heart rate drops below 120bpm.
I also cross country ski and road/mtn. bike race - either keep you in ample shape for alpine. I also find the stairmaster and ergometer (rowing machine) to provide surprisingly good workouts on those rainy days.
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nodecaf
Mar 31, 2006, 8:03 PM
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I use an HRM when doing aerobic training, but not when climbing. I come from a bike racing background so I've used one for about 15 years. Knowing your zones helps, otherwise the numbers don't mean much. Figure out your lactate/aerobic threshold and then go from there -- lots of books/manuals out there that can help.
Types of workouts I use my HRM for:
-Cycling
-Running
-Rowing
-Cross-fit/GymJones style weights
I'm skeptical about one providing useful information when actually climbing -- do you really need the distraction?
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krusher4
Mar 31, 2006, 8:09 PM
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Everyone is leaving one of the most important training tools> Whiskey
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builttospill
Apr 1, 2006, 1:28 AM
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When training more seriously for cross country and road racing, I used them for a variety of purposes:
-Tempo runs (lactate threshold training--HR is important here to make sure you're at the proper effort level).
-Easy/Long runs, to make sure I wasn't going too hard on my easy days.
-Interval workouts (less necessary)--hard interval training requires a certain level of effort. However, it's not usually necessary to use an HRM to tell if you're going hard enough. You should be able to feel it. This is the "puke on the track and then run another" type of workout.
I'd be happy to provide more specific information on training for running, mileage, all that kind of stuff if you're interested. I'm not sure how running fits into your training regimen, but I currently run 6-7 days per week and try to get out hiking at least once per week and go to the climbing gym 1-2 times per week on weeks when I'm not doing some form of mountaineering or climbing due to class/work. It has worked out well for me. I think cycling is very beneficial but I prefer running since my body is used to it.
What kind of climbing are you doing and looking to do? More general mountaineering, or alpine rock/ice or what?
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euroford
Apr 1, 2006, 1:57 AM
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i have no doubt that if you apply the correct knowedge to use of a HRM it can offer you gains.
but IMO: i've always trained by biking, walking and running (in that order for amount done) and i know what it feels like when i'm exerting enough. i must be doing something right becouse i've quickly worked from needing to run 1, 2, 3, 4, now 5 miles at a time to achieve the same level of 'exertion'. i've now had to by a trainer for the bike as riding in my urban enviroment doesn't offer enough constant power output to tire me out anymore.
maybe if i want to keep pushing my fitness level farther i'll need to begin a more 'discplined' regimen that includes a HRM. but honestly i'm not concerned, i think as far as cardio is concerned i;ve reached a point of diminishing returns that won't offer me any more alpine climbing performance. maybe if i wanted to run marathons it would be diffrent, but all i really want to do is get my pigs to broadway and the haul them up the diamond.
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builttospill
Apr 1, 2006, 2:40 AM
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euroford: I know a lot of people like you (in fact the majority of people I ran with). That works for the majority of people. I liked the HRM cause I found myself pushing too hard on sunday 18-20 milers. And I still use one when I can because I am trying to get back in solid 10K shape. Not necessarily for alpine climbing. It is probably superfluous, but it is DEFINITELY superfluous if you don't know how to use it properly. That said, it's certainly not right for most people and you seem to be doing fine.
P.S. Like the signature.
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knowsam
Apr 1, 2006, 8:27 PM
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I live in the prairies Sept to May and always get out of shape for the mountains. This year I decided to really try and stay in shape and have been using my GF's HRM. I've gotta say I like the thing- I generally work harder when I have it on, I can set goals and have objective evidence of improvement. I'll tell you in a few month whether it made any difference in climbing - but for general fitness I like it.
Sean
Editted to include:
I find its really helpful for determining how quickly my heart rate returns to a lower level.
I've been cycling alot, and those guys are all big ino the HRMs so I might be biased (notice how many cyclists responded here).
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builttospill
Apr 2, 2006, 3:58 AM
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Not sure how useful this information will be to you, but I'll provide it any way. I realize there aren't as many people interested in alpine stuff on RC.com, so this may fall on deaf ears, but this is my general training schedule. Bear in mind that I work 40 hours per week in an office, and attend school 3/4 time. Before I was doing these things, I was running 90-110 miles per week training for a top 20 college xc program. So this amount of training seems like very little to me, but it could be a lot more than most could handle immediately. Keep that in mind when starting to train hard. This also shouldn't be construed to mean that I'm a great climber. I'm not....I'm pretty horrible. I was a good runner, but I'm a shitty climber. I just don't run competitively anymore.
This is what my ideal week looks like right now:
Sunday: Alpine stuff. Or long run (12-15 miles)
Monday: 8 miles. Climbing gym for ~2 hours at night, fairly intense.
Tuesday: 8 miles. Abs (intense 5 minutes continuous)
Wednesday: 60-75 minutes on either bike or elliptical trainer (a result of a stress fracture that has permanently weakened by ability to run high mileage). Pullups and lockoffs to exhaustion. Abs.
Thursday: 8-10. Abs.
Friday: 6 easy. Pullups/lockoffs to exhaustion
Saturday: Depends. 8-10 miles, long hike, or a climb.
During the winter I frequently substitute backcountry snowboarding for a run or for a long hike, but I base it on time spent at an aerobic level of activity. If I'm skinning uphill on my splitboard for 2 hours, I count it as around a 12 mile run (normally 12 miles would be 90 minutes, but given that I probably took a few breaks on the uphill skin, I round down significantly). Thus, my schedule gets screwed up frequently.
Former high mileage running schedule (from my prime). Didn't lift weights much back then, but did occasionally.
Sunday: 18-20
Monday: Easy 6.
Tuesday: 6 am, 10 pm
Wednesday: 6 am, 14 pm
Thursday: 6 am, 10 pm
Friday: easy 6
Saturday: 6 am, 12 pm
Abs every morning for 5-8 minutes. Tried to lift twice per week, mostly low weight stuff, but sometimes couldn't muster the energy to care.
Now, the delicate balance is doing enough to stay in solid shape for the mountains, while balancing all the different components of fitness. It's fairly easy with running. You run a lot, and sometimes you run fast. On the other days, you run slow and easy to recover. Lift weights if you want to, but running is central to it all.
With alpine climbing you have to take all the components of standard cardiovascular exercise (base level aerobic fitness, lactate threshold training and standard interval training for V02 max) and combine it with weight training, sport-specifc training (i.e. climbing), and anything else you want to throw in there. It gets to be complicated. In this sense, I feel an HRM is valuable. If you're from a running/cycling background, you know your training zones. When you know that, you can adjust training to meet your daily needs. What I mean is......I know that 6 days out of the week I need to train general aerobic fitness (1 day I try to hit lactate threshold stuff/tempo runs still, although I'm unsure as to their benefit right now). So 6 days a week I need to be operating in the 150-158ish range in BPM, since I know that is my zone.
If I want to go backcountry snowboarding that day, which happens a lot before I go to work at 5 pm, I forgo my standard 8 mile run, take the HRM and make sure that I can get in at least an hour of solid uphill skinning in that target heart rate zone. Luckily I ski with fit people, so this is never a problem. I'm usually struggling to keep up. That way I've fulfilled the minimum for the day, and still managed to get out in the backcountry. When I tore my feet to hell 3 years ago 2 weeks before the xc season started, I spent 3 hours per day on the elliptical machine barefoot, getting the exact same workouts in as usual, just without running and putting my sausage feet into running shoes. Same thing happened when I had a stress fracture. That's why I like them.
I almost wonder whether I should have shared my "training secrets" but then I guess that if others make use of any suggestions I have here and somehow are better climbers than I am.....I deserve it. I'm not disciplined enough anymore to follow my own advice at all times, so that's my own damn problem.
There are a lot of ways to figure out your target heart rate zones, but DO NOT rely on 220 minus your age or other such "rules." Mine was fairly accurate but they can be wildly inaccurate and training with an HRM would be a waste of time if using the incorrect numbers. Daniels' book has a couple of methods and there are some other methods out there that can be found with some research. I recommend typically adhering to advice found in books and not the internet when it comes to high-level endurance sports training because there is a hell of a lot of misinformation out there. More than that, there is a lot of information geared toward the absolute beginning, or the recreational jogger, that simply won't apply to those training at a higher level and could actually be quite detrimental.
If you have any specific questions about training aerobic stuff like this, please don't hesitate to PM me or just reply here. I'm no expert, but I have a lot of experience with it. I'm hoping to post my old training logs soon, but you can find a 4 month snippet at http://merv.stanford.edu (my old running log from back in the day) if you PM me I'll give you my password to look it up. Until I get my site up and running that's all I've got. Good luck with the training.
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adnix
Apr 3, 2006, 1:13 PM
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In reply to: Do any of you use a heart rate moniter when training for alpine climbing or mounteneering
My training includes:
- Eating and not eating on irregular intervals. Sometimes I notice myself not eating before 8pm, sometimes I eat all day.
- Eating not perfect food. Once the date is gone it's usually good for at least a week. Old food is good for the stomache.
- Speed climbing easy multipitch trad. Speed is usually safety and fast belay routines help a lot. In general running it out on easy terrain is considered safer than being slow on a big route. It helps with the head, too.
- Long days of doing something. Climbing, hiking or something else low pace for 10 or more hours at one go... It helps with endurance.
- Rock and mixed climbing. You'll get accustomed to the technical difficulties and don't get scared too easy if you run into hard boulder problem on the mountains.
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angry
Apr 3, 2006, 2:27 PM
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I use a heart rate monitor for all aerobic training I do. It doesn't help me train but I really like to download and graph it out.
I'm a nerd.
It's also got an altimeter so I can see the elevation gain too.
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graniteavenger
Apr 4, 2006, 2:10 AM
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Yeah, I use a HRM when I'm training. My progression of use has gone as such:
1. Read about them in various books on fitness training, magazines, etc.
2. Lived with a mtn biker who trains with one, and be left for dust when we go out riding (granted though, I'm no competent biker).
3. Buy a cheap one, and follow the training schedules in the manual.
4. Cardio fitness increases pretty quickly compared to past improvments.
5. Attempt to follow another fitness plan, cardio fitness improves even better.
6. Get fast as sh!t for the winter AT ski season, stop regular training & start skiing more.
7. 2 months of excessive beer, partying, & AT skiing leave me a good skier, but not in tip top shape.
8. Break out the HRM, repeat process. But this time with a nerdish obbsesion of trying to remember what combination of buttons to push to stop the bloody things alarm from going off at midnight.
I'd recomend one.
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