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toohigh
Nov 5, 2006, 11:41 PM
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Dear Climbers,
There are a lot of great rope brands on the market these days (beal, edelweiss, mammut, bluewater.....). I assume all of you have your own personal preferences and opinions on brands and models. Objectively speaking though I want to to gain some general info about the differences between these brands in hopes of understanding all of the companies better.
I am looking into buy another rope soon and really like to understand what I am buying before I make a final decision. I think I speak for a lot of climbers out there and hope this thread can help them as well. Thanks for all your help!
-John
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fixednut
Nov 5, 2006, 11:44 PM
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I think Beal ropes are awful purty.
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timm
Nov 5, 2006, 11:46 PM
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IMHO, Mammut is the top brand in terms of durability. YMMV.
Cheers.
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devils_advocate
Nov 5, 2006, 11:46 PM
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My opinion: Over rated.
All of those major companies you listed make quality product. You will be just as safe choosing any similar spec'd rope from any company. Everything else boils down to personal preference and (marketing produced) affinity or dislike for a particular company.
Choose the specs you want, see what deals are out there at that moment, and base your decision off of that. And the color, make sure you get something pretty.
That said, Mammut.
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redlegrangerone
Nov 5, 2006, 11:53 PM
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^^^^^^^^ What he said.
But make sure you buy a Mammut. :D
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endercore
Nov 6, 2006, 12:44 AM
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edelwiess makes really cheap, dry ropes, but everyone I know who owns these say the kink really well.
I don't really think its a big deal what kind of rope you have tho. Mine is a mammut although I noticed it is noticeably softer and stays cleaner than other ropes.
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putputgolfer
Nov 6, 2006, 1:15 AM
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Every bluewater that i have used has had a lot of rope stretch(seemingly more than advertised). Edelwiess makes some pretty good ropes and i have never had any issues with them kinking more than any other line.
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vegastradguy
Nov 6, 2006, 4:56 AM
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generally speaking:
Beal- low impact force leader- these ropes are sport climbing workhorses because of this.
Sterling- burly with great hand. they make great beginner ropes and folks generally like Sterling, but as they progress, many drift away. I think this is because Sterling is known for its 10mm and above ropes and not so much for its thinner lines, although sterling is working hard to change this.
Mammut- the king of ropes. way burly and they make you feel good. i've never known anyone to hate them. their supersafe is a really popular wall rope. downside- way expensive.
Bluewater- seem to be a great all around rope. i own two myself and like them both. Bluewater doesn't have the low impact force of beal and isnt as burly as Sterling or Mammut, but lies nicely in between, making it a great all around rope.
Maxim- a rope with great hand, but an annoyingly high impact force.
Edelweiss/Edelrid/PMI/etc- All good ropes and worth investigating as a potential rope.
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jt512
Nov 6, 2006, 5:17 AM
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In reply to: Mammut- the king of ropes. way burly and they make you feel good. i've never known anyone to hate them.
I hate them. They're too stiff and have way too hard a catch. They do last forever, but I'm not sure that that's a positive attribute in a rope you hate.
Jay
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toohigh
Nov 6, 2006, 6:10 AM
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In reply to: generally speaking: Beal- low impact force leader- these ropes are sport climbing workhorses because of this. Sterling- burly with great hand. they make great beginner ropes and folks generally like Sterling, but as they progress, many drift away. I think this is because Sterling is known for its 10mm and above ropes and not so much for its thinner lines, although sterling is working hard to change this. Mammut- the king of ropes. way burly and they make you feel good. i've never known anyone to hate them. their supersafe is a really popular wall rope. downside- way expensive. Bluewater- seem to be a great all around rope. i own two myself and like them both. Bluewater doesn't have the low impact force of beal and isnt as burly as Sterling or Mammut, but lies nicely in between, making it a great all around rope. Maxim- a rope with great hand, but an annoyingly high impact force. Edelweiss/Edelrid/PMI/etc- All good ropes and worth investigating as a potential rope.
informative post. thanks a lot! anybody else have info/opinions like this?
-John
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billykent24
Nov 6, 2006, 8:12 AM
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Soon we can add petzl to the list.
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onearmwonder
Nov 6, 2006, 12:27 PM
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Actually the best ropes by far are made by Esprit. I know I know, some people say they're too stiff and hard to clip with, but you will never find a rope more durable/that feeds so well/and lasts so long as an esprit rope. The 9.1 and 9.7 are the most practical sizes. Believe me I have tried many ropes. The only down fall is they cost alot and it takes forever to get one after you order one. They make them as you place your order. With that said, I now just use a Beal.
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joshy8200
Nov 6, 2006, 1:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: generally speaking: Beal- low impact force leader- these ropes are sport climbing workhorses because of this. Sterling- burly with great hand. they make great beginner ropes and folks generally like Sterling, but as they progress, many drift away. I think this is because Sterling is known for its 10mm and above ropes and not so much for its thinner lines, although sterling is working hard to change this. Mammut- the king of ropes. way burly and they make you feel good. i've never known anyone to hate them. their supersafe is a really popular wall rope. downside- way expensive. Bluewater- seem to be a great all around rope. i own two myself and like them both. Bluewater doesn't have the low impact force of beal and isnt as burly as Sterling or Mammut, but lies nicely in between, making it a great all around rope. Maxim- a rope with great hand, but an annoyingly high impact force. Edelweiss/Edelrid/PMI/etc- All good ropes and worth investigating as a potential rope. informative post. thanks a lot! anybody else have info/opinions like this? -John
As someone that owns 3 Sterling ropes and 1 Beal. I definitely concur with the specs mentioned above. My Sterling ropes have been work-horses. They have also been ropes above 10mm (11mm, 10.2mm, and 10.1). Sterling ropes have a lot of good features at really great prices. They use DryCore on all their ropes and BetterBraid Technology...which add up to ropes that, as said, handle extremely well and perform adeptly.
My Beal rope is also GREAT. 9.4mm and light. It has worn very well and is great to climb on. Beal ropes come packed with nice features too. I looked at the website briefly and I think all Beal ropes come with 'DryCover'. I am pretty sure that all Beal ropes are marked at the middle. They're as said known for low impact forces. And I think they are usually priced very well.
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brent_e
Nov 6, 2006, 2:58 PM
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In reply to: ^^^^^^^^ What he said. But make sure you buy a Mammut. :D
:lol:
They do make nice ropes, that is for sure. Having used Edelrid primarily, i will vouch for them, too. I have a beal half but haven't used it much yet.
it is likely that you aren't going to get anything bad, though, devils_advocate is right.
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devils_advocate
Nov 6, 2006, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: generally speaking: Well Explained Yet Still Subjective List. informative post. thanks a lot! anybody else have info/opinions like this?
Again, I think it's all subjective. With the exception of the few objective qualities he listed: Mammut being expensive, and two of the companies that are known for low or high impact ropes (I don't know, but if that's true it would be easy enough to verify). I really think the rest is a matter of personal preference and thoughts put in your head by companies and internet personalities.
Take for example: the guy who confirmed that X brand is a workhorse because he had 3 of them and they seem to last him for awhile. Now, if he has happened to own 40 ropes of various brands (all made somewhat recently to omit advances in technology) maybe he could make a comparison. Otherwise, it's just another subjective opinion. Sure, he had 3 and they seem to work fine. If he's only owned a couple ropes in addition to these 3 does he really have a baseline to compare?
Just as, if this thread continues on long enough, someone will come on and say Y brand sucks because they had one and it fell apart. Maybe that person beats the crap out of ropes. Maybe he just took poor care of this one in particular. Maybe his cat pissed on it.
Finally, look at his comment "nobody hates Mammut". Quickly followed by Jay saying he hates Mammut. Now Jay is certainly known to flame post and push buttons, but all the same he lists why he dislikes them. Doesn't match his personal preference for what he likes in a rope. Jay seems to have a lot of experience climbing, does that make his statement gospel? Sorry Jay, but no, it's his opinion on ropes. A valid one, but still just an opinion. You can try to put together a generalization based on these opinions, Mammut is too stiff - for example. But for all you know what Jay considers too stiff is perfect for you.
Go to your local store, play with some ropes, know what specs you like, see what's on sale, and base your decision on that. You're not going to walk out of there getting screwed, any rope is going to work fine. You just may like one more than the other. Fact is, you won't know until you've tried several and can make a comparison yourself.
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curt
Nov 6, 2006, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Mammut- the king of ropes. way burly and they make you feel good. i've never known anyone to hate them. I hate them. They're too stiff and have way too hard a catch. They do last forever, but I'm not sure that that's a positive attribute in a rope you hate. Jay
If you didn't fall so damn often, perhaps that wouldn't be such a big problem. :lol:
Curt
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j_ung
Nov 6, 2006, 7:10 PM
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If you listen to curt your next rope will be a crash pad. Do not listen to curt. :wink:
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jimdavis
Nov 6, 2006, 7:13 PM
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Stay away from PMI....about half of the people I've met who climb on them have had a bad rope. (small sample group...but it's enough for me to make my mind up)
My first PMI has something funky going on with the core on the first day I used it. It felt like I was belaying corkscrew pasta after 20 mins of use. I think it was missing a core strand or something....took that one back to EMS the next day and it got sent back to PMI...never heard the official report on it.
Talked to someone the other day who had some serious sheath slippage on their PMI...over a foot was cut off one end...then again (after it cut hot cut off), the sheath bunched up when they were pulling it on rappel and jammed on the rings. They rigged a z-drag to pull it down. Sent that one back to PMI also.
I've been climbing on Sterlings now for 5 years and am very impressed. My 9.8 is great...we have their gym ropes which are holding up well, and feel really nice. Also the ropes I lead courses with are Sterlings and both the old 11 batch, and the newer 10.7 or so batches, are holding up really well.
My BlueWater 10.5 worked like a champ...very good rope.
Beals are good lead ropes if you ask me, but aweful for TR's....way to stretchy.
Mammut has some rep on these boards as being the best...I don't get it. The Mammuts I've climbed on didn't seem any different than BlueWaters.
I'd get a Sterling or BlueWater for anything except ice lead half ropes. That's about all I'd get a Beal for...reeeeeeealy soft catch.
Any rope will work though, find something on sale....except for PMI, IMO.
Cheers,
Jim
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ja1484
Nov 7, 2006, 4:25 AM
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In reply to: Stay away from PMI....about half of the people I've met who climb on them have had a bad rope. (small sample group...but it's enough for me to make my mind up) My first PMI has something funky going on with the core on the first day I used it. It felt like I was belaying corkscrew pasta after 20 mins of use. I think it was missing a core strand or something....took that one back to EMS the next day and it got sent back to PMI...never heard the official report on it. Talked to someone the other day who had some serious sheath slippage on their PMI...over a foot was cut off one end...then again (after it cut hot cut off), the sheath bunched up when they were pulling it on rappel and jammed on the rings. They rigged a z-drag to pull it down. Sent that one back to PMI also. I've been climbing on Sterlings now for 5 years and am very impressed. My 9.8 is great...we have their gym ropes which are holding up well, and feel really nice. Also the ropes I lead courses with are Sterlings and both the old 11 batch, and the newer 10.7 or so batches, are holding up really well. My BlueWater 10.5 worked like a champ...very good rope. Beals are good lead ropes if you ask me, but aweful for TR's....way to stretchy. Mammut has some rep on these boards as being the best...I don't get it. The Mammuts I've climbed on didn't seem any different than BlueWaters. I'd get a Sterling or BlueWater for anything except ice lead half ropes. That's about all I'd get a Beal for...reeeeeeealy soft catch. Any rope will work though, find something on sale....except for PMI, IMO. Cheers, Jim
FWIW, the rope I'm currently using is a PMI and it's been absolutely fine. It might interest you to know that PMI's cores are made for them by Beal, so if you climb PMI, you're essentially climbing Beal.
That said, on to the meat:
All major climbing ropes are pretty much the same in terms of safety. That is, you will be safe on all of them, so long as they are used correctly.
The biggest difference in how good a rope is to you is made in how good you are to the rope. Proper care is essential. Some tips:
1) Wash it fairly regularly. Every 4 months or so seems to do it for me, and I only manage to get outside 2 or 3 times monthly these days. A good wash with a couple good rinses does wonders for a rope.
2) After each use where you've climbed on the rope, flake it in a safe place (i.e. out of direct sunlight, away from chemicals and pets, etc.) and let it sit for about half a day. Then flake it onto the other end and let it sit an equal amount. You have to understand, your rope is essentially a nylon spring designed to absorb the shock of a fall. When this happens, fibers of the core get elastically stretched and if you don't flake, they don't have time to recover. The rope can't do so bunched up in a rope bag. You don't flake, you get a kinked, stiff, lumpy rope. You do flake, you get a rope with a loving hand and a great catch every time.
There's more, but I'm seriously considering just writing an article. There are so many ridiculous wive's tales out there about ropes, someone needs to compile the myth debunking in one place. I'm too lazy at the moment, but if I get fed up enough, I just might.
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kane_schutzman
Nov 7, 2006, 4:56 AM
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I love my Mammut Ropes, but have never climbed on anything else so I do not have any other input. Is there an article on Rope Care? I know there is going to be alot of info here. I just do not like the idea of putting my rope in a washing machine. So tips, or any other information on that would be awsome!
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thimblerigger
Nov 7, 2006, 5:35 AM
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I have a bluewater. It is a nice rope. To wash it I use a bucket of warm water and soap. I use my hands to lather the soap until the water is soapy. Then all I do is put a section of the rope in the bucket at a time and give it a bit of a swirl. Does the trick. Just make sure you dry your rope thoroughly before using it or it will pick up more dirt instantly.
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ninja_climber
Nov 7, 2006, 5:48 AM
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I have a 70m Mammut...It is sexy...much sexier than all the other ropes... 8^)
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healyje
Nov 7, 2006, 7:18 AM
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There is no finer rope for trad climbing than a 10.2 Mammut Supersafe with the exception it isn't available in a bicolor. For that you have to drop to a 10mm Eternity. But these two ropes have a thicker sheath at 40% and the sheath and core are teflon coated which means they basically don't fuzz as they age. The Blue Water/Yates SuperElite is about the only rope with a thicker sheath (I believe 44%) and is for big walls; it's a bit stiff for my tastes but for a wall it's a good rope.
It's not true at all that all ropes are the same beyond the fact that they all satisfy some minimum stats; after that there are a lot of differences in how they're constructed. If you compare the combination of falls/weights/sheath% you'll be able to clearly see the differences. For sport climbing I can believe jt512 might not like Mammuts - for trad climbing they're the business as far as I'm concerned. And I've taken plenty of dives on my Supersafes - the falls were all fine.
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percious
Nov 7, 2006, 2:45 PM
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Here is my take on the following ropes which I have a bunch of experience with.
Edelweiss Axis: Great All-around rope. A little kinky when I first got it, but better now. And the dry treatment is definitely not a long-term thing (neither is it on any rope). I use this for my TR setups. It is VERY springy, and therefore has a nice catch for the beginner.
Edelweiss On-sight: Chordy and stiff. This was my partner's rope and we used it for Trad for most of the season. Nice having the bi-color, but I don't know if it really matters on Trad. The rope seemed to have a penchant for kinking. Not saying I hate it, but it's not my favourite. 70 meters let us combine pitches in quite a few places which was helpful. As light as a 60 meter 10.2
Bluewater Eliminator: I currently am using this rope as my lead trad rope. It is nice and supple which makes for easy clips. Lately it has been kinking up a bit, but I dont know if this is just because I need to let it hang out and relax a bit since it is never on TR. It SEEMS thinner than a 10.2 because of the suppleness.
Beal Wall Master: We use this rope in our indoor gym at the YMCA. I would say the rope gets pretty heavy usage. Ropes were replaced in February and probably lasted 6 months before needing replacement. They had a nice feel to them especially when new.
-percious
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ja1484
Nov 7, 2006, 11:50 PM
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In reply to: It's not true at all that all ropes are the same beyond the fact that they all satisfy some minimum stats; after that there are a lot of differences in how they're constructed. If you compare the combination of falls/weights/sheath% you'll be able to clearly see the differences. For sport climbing I can believe jt512 might not like Mammuts - for trad climbing they're the business as far as I'm concerned. And I've taken plenty of dives on my Supersafes - the falls were all fine.
Semantics for the overly anal. If the rope arrests the fall and doesn't pull your gear, it's fine. Quit whining about weight, hand, color, and all those other aesthetics and climb.
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