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paulraphael
Mar 8, 2007, 8:08 PM
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Anyone have an oppinion about this knot?
http://www.climerware.com/f8x.shtml
It's nice and compact and seems a bit easier to untie after loading than a regular 8. But I haven't seen any tests done on it (and I don't even know if it has a name).
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madrasrock
Mar 8, 2007, 11:57 PM
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I learned this knot about a year ago, several of my friends that work at climbing gyms us it. It is very easy to tie it when you are tying the rope on to some one that dose not know the figure 8 knot. But I do not teach it because I think if your are learning the 8 knot for the first time you can get is wrong. also it is hard to inspect from a distance.
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bouldrinsoill
Mar 9, 2007, 12:15 AM
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I use it all the time. The general consensus is that it is a safe knot.
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drector
Mar 9, 2007, 12:18 AM
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Didn't someone just ask this same question about two weeks ago? You should consider searching for that thread since there were many answers given including it's name.
I use this knot often.
Dave
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boombewm
Mar 9, 2007, 12:24 AM
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I learned it as the "Figure 9". Yes, from what i know it does make the 8 easier to untie, especially if you don't pull it *tight*, you leave a bit of a loop in it so you can work a finger in and pull out the pass. If you don't do this, I guess it really doesn't accomplish much or something, not sure.
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yarps
Mar 9, 2007, 12:31 AM
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Does it matter if the tail goes around the lead line or not, before you tuck it under?
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cintune
Mar 9, 2007, 12:35 AM
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It doesn't really matter except for style points and making the whole thing easier to untie. Don't pull the last pass taut, and loosen the knot by feeding some slack from the standing end back into it first. And the Figure 9 is a different knot, with two wraps around the standing end before passing through the first bight. This is getting to be like the movie Groundhog Day.
(This post was edited by cintune on Mar 9, 2007, 12:36 AM)
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dynoho
Mar 9, 2007, 12:43 AM
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I learned this at the gym; they called it the "yosemite tuck" if I recall.
It is faster than a DFK, keeps the tip from poking your eye out and seems safe enough. I typically only use it indoors though; superstitious.
Untying can be a hassle once weighted. The label on my rope gets caught which negates any time savings.
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tradrenn
Mar 11, 2007, 12:01 AM
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I know it as "F 8 yosemite finish".
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tisar
Mar 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
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boombewm wrote: I learned it as the "Figure 9". Yes, from what i know it does make the 8 easier to untie, especially if you don't pull it *tight*, you leave a bit of a loop in it so you can work a finger in and pull out the pass. If you don't do this, I guess it really doesn't accomplish much or something, not sure.
Hi!
The figure of nine is a totally different knot (sorry couldn't find an english article, but the picture is clear). The OPs knot in questinon would be the figure-of-eight with yosemite finish, as tradrenn already pointed out correctly.
- Daniel
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redpoint73
Mar 14, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Another benefit besides being easier to untie after loading, is that the end of the rope can be tucked neatly under the tie-in point of your harness, and is much more out of the way than a double fisherman backup.
Also, the double fisherman backup seems to become untied all to easily, and then you have no backup at all. Sure, you can cinch it real tight, but this is especially a problem with stiff ropes. Its more of an annoyance than anything else, but w. the Yosemite finish, there is no hassle, no annoyance.
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mr-pink
Mar 14, 2007, 1:58 PM
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If you can back up with a double fisherman, the dead end of the rope is long enough to prevent dangerous situations when the fig. 8 slips.
I've never, ever seen a fig 8 slip more than 2 cm.
A double fish. takes 10cm.
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redpoint73
Mar 14, 2007, 2:18 PM
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mr-pink wrote: If you can back up with a double fisherman, the dead end of the rope is long enough to prevent dangerous situations when the fig. 8 slips.
So does the Yosemite Finish. Plus its smaller, stays out of the way, and stays tied.
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boombewm
Mar 14, 2007, 4:53 PM
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tisar wrote: boombewm wrote: I learned it as the "Figure 9". Yes, from what i know it does make the 8 easier to untie, especially if you don't pull it *tight*, you leave a bit of a loop in it so you can work a finger in and pull out the pass. If you don't do this, I guess it really doesn't accomplish much or something, not sure. Hi! The figure of nine is a totally different knot (sorry couldn't find an english article, but the picture is clear). The OPs knot in questinon would be the figure-of-eight with yosemite finish, as tradrenn already pointed out correctly. - Daniel
Hmmm, I see. I'll be sure to remeber that, thanks for the info
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axeman
Mar 14, 2007, 5:39 PM
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My climbing instructor uses this knot and taught it to me after I had been climbing for a while.
His opinion is that it can get screwed up by newbies but is better for more experienced climbers and just as safe.
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josephgdawson
Mar 14, 2007, 5:59 PM
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yarps wrote: Does it matter if the tail goes around the lead line or not, before you tuck it under?
Absolutely it matters if the tail goes around the lead line or not. If you do not wrap it around the lead line and then put it back through you risk putting it in the same slot through which you originally pulled the strand and thereby undoing some of the knot. By wrapping the tail around the main line you avoid this. The knot in the picture is properly tied.
I know the knot as the nine follow through.
The knot is plenty strong. Hell, it is probably stronger than a regular 8 because there is more friction added from the extra wrap.
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patto
Mar 15, 2007, 1:57 AM
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josephgdawson wrote: The knot is plenty strong. Hell, it is probably stronger than a regular 8 because there is more friction added from the extra wrap.
All decent knot fail not due to it untying but due to the rope breaking at the knot. Thus more friction from an extra wrap or ten wont make a strong knot, stronger.
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cintune
Mar 15, 2007, 12:08 PM
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josephgdawson wrote: Absolutely it matters if the tail goes around the lead line or not. If you do not wrap it around the lead line and then put it back through you risk putting it in the same slot through which you originally pulled the strand and thereby undoing some of the knot. By wrapping the tail around the main line you avoid this. The knot in the picture is properly tied.
No, either way is fine, really.
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knudenoggin
Mar 16, 2007, 3:46 PM
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Given the variety of results people get in tying the Fig.8 loopknot,
there will be differences over what that site shows. If one pulls down
on the end-tucking as depicted, it's possible to pull this wrap out of
position; OTOH, tucking it down w/o the behind-the-standing-part
looks fine.
But half the time I think folks will have the end as the other part
as depicted, and going around & down then gives a different-looking
knot.
Better to do all this tucking for a bowline--easier to check! 
*kN*
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bmapple
Mar 16, 2007, 4:42 PM
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I use this knot all the time and love it despite this minor flaw. The one down side is this: The knot will role more easily if pulled from two directions inside the loop of the 8.
example: you have tied in with this knot and arrive at the anchor and clip in to the loop of the knot (the portion of the knot that parallels the belay loop through the legs and swami) instead of attaching to your belay loop. Weighting the anchor point attached to the loop of the knot will make it want to roll with any form of the fig8. Having an extra pass of rope through the bottom loop of the 8 allows it to roll more easily.
play with this at home with a less then perfectly snuged fig8 w/ yosemite finish and you can see this possibility.
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cintune
Mar 16, 2007, 4:44 PM
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Whether you wrap it around the working end or not, you're still passing it over the crossed diagonal strands of the 8. It's faster, neater, and easier not to bother with the third wrap. Unless maybe you have extra rope tail to use up.
(This post was edited by cintune on Mar 16, 2007, 4:52 PM)
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mtnfr34k
Mar 26, 2007, 6:34 AM
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I've used this finish for the past 7 years, having been taught it was the "Yosemite finish".
More recently, though, I've stopped. Its been pointed out to me that this "finish" makes the knot visibly harder to inspect and confirm. Furthermore, to my knowledge a properly tied figure eight knot cannot spontaneously become untied.
Any "back-up", "tuck", or "finish" is only to remove unwanted extra tail from the knot. Better to adjust the knot with a proper 2"-3" tail and let it alone.
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binrat
Mar 28, 2007, 12:19 AM
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Got taught that knot about 12 years ago as the figure 8 with yosemite tuck. It was used at the time by some sport climbers and I prefer the bowline instead.
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SamScott
Apr 13, 2007, 5:16 PM
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I don't think tucking the rope in will make the not safer. I wouldn't bother.
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deschamps1000
Apr 13, 2007, 5:55 PM
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I use this knot for two reasons:
It helps with desperate clips. When you are barely holding on trying to clip you can reach down with confidence, knowing that what you grab is what needs to be clipped. The tail stays out of the way and out of your hands when reaching for the rope.
This is also a good knot for aid climbing in that it reduces the visual cluster of stuff near your belay loop.
In responce to whether or not the tail needs to go around the load strand. It really doesn't matter. You would have to be an absolute moron to pass the tail back through where it came from. If you practice this knot you will see how hard it would be to do that.
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